Bugler Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 A friend of mine has a Trapper in .45 Colt that only holds 9 rounds and as a new SASS shooter would like it to hold 10. My question is, can the magazine tube spring be shortened enough for it to hold 10 rounds and still reliably feed the last round? If so, what length does the spring need to be? I know several that load the Trapper with 10 rounds of Scofield brass and have no problems... What do you fellow members have to say? Bug;er Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 First of all there is going to be a flood of responses telling you that this rifle is not good for SASS! Don’t believe them! My first rifle was a 1884/94 Centennial in .44 mag with the John Wayne big loop. I shot it for about a year and got a Browning 92 in .44 mag. The 94 isn’t competitive speed wise but if your friend likes it, he should shoot it until he wants to change. I believe it has been suggested before that the magazine spring can be shortened, but not sure. He can load one while shooting, again if he likes the rifle it isn’t a problem. If he reloaded if possibly could make the cartridges a little shorter but some 94’s are sensitive to over all length (OAL) of the cartridge. Tell him to enjoy and watch for all the rest of the posts from the naysayers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 The mag spring can be shortened, but not likely enough to get 10 in the 94 Trapper. Along with a shortened spring, he can also try 45 Schofield cases and see if the rifle will run them. The other thing to try is shorter bullets. 160Gr RNFP can be quite short and make a difference. However, even shorter bullets may require a short mag spring. If your friend wants to actually compete, he has the wrong rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 A mag tube spring only needs to be long enough and strong enough to push ONE round onto the carrier....... basically the last round. Whether that round is #9 or #10 is relevant to that particular rifle. Normally, spring length needs to be about 2 or 3 'pistol' cartridge lengths longer than the mag tube itself. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 46 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: A mag tube spring only needs to be long enough and strong enough to push ONE round onto the carrier....... basically the last round. Whether that round is #9 or #10 is relevant to that particular rifle. Normally, spring length needs to be about 2 or 3 'pistol' cartridge lengths longer than the mag tube itself. ..........Widder Wow that makes sense! So it is either shorter cartridges or a longer mag tube! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 45 minutes ago, Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 said: Wow that makes sense! So it is either shorter cartridges or a longer mag tube! Longer mag tube on a "Trapper" model is NOT an approved option. REF: SHB p.33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 A local cowboy shoots ten .45 Schofield in a Win 94 Trapper. Have not seen him since China virus but it looked like there were no issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 1 hour ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: Longer mag tube on a "Trapper" model is NOT an approved option. REF: SHB p.33 True but a longer barrel would be an easy add an not as expensive as another rifle. Or I have seen tubes shorter than the barrel and if you got a longer tube than the original and made it the same length as the barrel that would be allowed, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 5 minutes ago, Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 said: True but a longer barrel would be an easy add and not as expensive as another rifle. Or I have seen tubes shorter than the barrel and if you got a longer tube than the original and made it the same length as the barrel that would be allowed, yes? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken George* Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 We have a 16" trapper in 357 and the spring had to be shortened to hold 10. Then I added a mag liner and the new spring for it wouldn't work. The smaller diameter spring had more coils and couldn't compress short enough. Only way I could make it still hold 10 was to make a custom spring that had alternating large and small coils. The small coils fit inside the large coils when compressed making it take up a lot less space. It worked well and has been reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Jones, SASS 2263 Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 I used a Trapper the first year. Always had to load the tenth round on the clock. I don't shoot it much anymore, certainly not at a match, but it's a good, strong rifle. Not speedy, but dependable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 I haven't seen one of these for a rifle length mag tube, BUT..... if you can get a 'flat wire' spring of the appropriate size and length, that might help solve your 10 round issue. I know the 'Flat Wire' springs are made and sold by Wilson Combat, but they are for the 1911 size pistols. Good luck. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 Simplest cheapest fastest fix is to source up some 45 Schofield with 200Gr (or less) bullets and shove 'em inna rifle. If 10 load and cycle, yer gold. A Set of reloading dies and some cases is cheap seats compared to expensive gunsmithing. Also, if the schofield work just fine, some quality time with a case trimmer and a cordless drill motor can result in "free" 45 Schofield length cases. Just some thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 I shoot with a guy up at Norco that has been using a 94 and loading the 10th round on the clock since 2007 and he has a great time at matches. Early on I thought he’d be switching to a rifle that would hold 10 rounds but he doesn’t mind loading the last round. Your friend might find that he likes doing what he’s doing and having fun anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 My '94 trapper did not feed Schofields. Back when I had it (first CAS rifle, because I didn't know any better) only half the stages had ten rifle rounds, and at least the '94 is very easy to drop in the tenth round from the top. I think if someone practiced grabbing that tenth round with their off-hand before picking up the rifle, they could reload very quickly (still not competitive of course, but better). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugler Posted July 7, 2022 Author Share Posted July 7, 2022 Well, I finally loaded some Schofield brass dummies with the mentioned 200 grain bullets, when the lifter picks up the cartridge it seems to bind at the top of the chamber. Crimp is good, OAL is good. Am slightly puzzled....10 Schofields loaded nicely into the mag tube. Seemed to sort of feed if I was gentle with it....being aggressive brought about more mis-feeds. Bugler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 If you look closely when the cartridge is hitting the top the top chamber the rim of the cartridge is likely mis-aligned with the slots in the cartridge guides. When you cycle it slow the rim of cartridge has time to properly fit into the cartridge guide slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugler Posted July 8, 2022 Author Share Posted July 8, 2022 Thanks for your help everyone!! New shooter has decided to use his dad's Marlin 1894 .38-357 carbine. Bugler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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