Cliff Hanger #3720LR Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 Let us know how it goes. We want to know and share what we learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Chapo Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 21 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Spend more time on your press and you will learn the 'feel' of when the primer is fully seated in the case. I say that as one who has loaded on a Dillon 550 since 1987. Started reloading in 1967.... BTW, all Dillons and just about every other maker, primer seats on the down stroke of the ram. OLG The commercial Dillon presses seat a primer when you pull the lever. They differ from the 550/650/750 presses in this way. I agree that the loader should develop the feel for how the primers go in the brass, but I've also found that different brass has slightly different primer pocket dimensions and feel, and no matter what, inspecting the loaded cartridges is the only sure way to avoid high primers with these presses, especially when you're loading 500+ rounds per hour. 13 minutes ago, Diamond Curly SASS#57086 said: Thank you for all the replies. Loaded some more rounds this morning and out to the range and see how this batch works. Seated the primers to bottom this time for sure. DC Based on the symptom, the new rounds should do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 4 minutes ago, Cliff Hanger #3720LR said: Let us know how it goes. We want to know and share what we learn. PLZ let us know OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, Chacón said: I agree that the loader should develop the feel for how the primers go in the brass, but I've also found that different brass has slightly different primer pocket dimensions and feel, and no matter what, inspecting the loaded cartridges is the only sure way to avoid high primers with these presses, especially when you're loading 500+ rounds per hour. IF, you have all the up/down play removed from the shell plate. You should feel the plate drag with a high primer. One of the most common reasons for high primers on progressive presses, is shell plate play. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Chapo Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 6 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: IF, you have all the up/down play removed from the shell plate. You should feel the plate drag with a high primer. One of the most common reasons for high primers on progressive presses, is shell plate play. OLG You won't be able to get the plate quite that tight on a 650. It will bind when it indexes if you do. Obviously you take as much of the play out as you can and tighten the set screw, but as far as it being that tight, it will end up dragging. It only takes a few thousandths of an inch for a primer to be high enough to cause a misfire. You may not agree, but I'm inspecting every one of my rounds, especially for a big match where it matters. Inspecting your loaded ammunition is part of the reloading process. That includes checking for high primers by look and feel, every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 5 minutes ago, Chacón said: You won't be able to get the plate quite that tight on a 650. It will bind when it indexes if you do. Obviously you take as much of the play out as you can and tighten the set screw, but as far as it being that tight, it will end up dragging. It only takes a few thousandths of an inch for a primer to be high enough to cause a misfire. You may not agree, but I'm inspecting every one of my rounds, especially for a big match where it matters. Inspecting your loaded ammunition is part of the reloading process. That includes checking for high primers by look and feel, every time. Put a itty-bit of lube on the bottom of the shell plate to aid in cycling. Silicon spray is handy here. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Chapo Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 1 hour ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Put a itty-bit of lube on the bottom of the shell plate to aid in cycling. Silicon spray is handy here. OLG The ammunition needs to be inspected. Every time. No exceptions. Silicone spray or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 I use Trail Boss and Winchester primers in just about everything I load. When I got my Navy Arms 66, it had a much lighter than factory hammer spring. Sometimes the primers would not go off. When I replaced it with a factory spring, the problem went away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Curly SASS#57086 Posted July 27, 2021 Author Share Posted July 27, 2021 5 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: PLZ let us know OLG I will let everyone know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 6 hours ago, Cliff Hanger #3720LR said: Case lube should not contaminate primers. Lube stuck in the flash hole can interfere with ignition. ---------------------- From factories. Question "Are bullet primers waterproof?" "Primers have a sealing layer giving a long self life - guaranteed up to 30 years. Can withstand full immersion in water for a period of more than 1 months." I agree with you. It should not. However, I was loading the same primers, same powder and same cases. The only difference was the case lube. When I switched back to One Shot, the problem went away. My point was, don't automatically assume it was bad primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roscoe Regulator Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 On 7/27/2021 at 7:39 AM, Chief Rick said: I also just tried to reload some C45S with Winchester and Remington primers. I don't know exactly how old these primers are, but several years. They have been stored in an airconditioned location since my purchase. In a stock SAA clone I could not get reliable ignition with either brand of primer. Some would go off with the first strike, some took two strikes, some took three and some never would go bang. I fortunately have a few Fed large pistol magnum primers so I loaded them up and they all went boom first strike. The gun and springs are important context to include. My JM Marlin 45 Cowboy doesn't like Winchester primers, but it has a spring kit and one-piece firing pin. It seems like if one wants to shoot an off brand of primer, the original springs might have to be restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Rick Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 13 minutes ago, Roscoe Regulator said: The gun and springs are important context to include. My JM Marlin 45 Cowboy doesn't like Winchester primers, but it has a spring kit and one-piece firing pin. It seems like if one wants to shoot an off brand of primer, the original springs might have to be restored. In my post, which you quoted, I stated I was shooting with a stock gun. What is an off-brand primer? I stated I used Winchester, Remington and Federal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Roscoe Regulator said: The gun and springs are important context to include. My JM Marlin 45 Cowboy doesn't like Winchester primers, but it has a spring kit and one-piece firing pin. It seems like if one wants to shoot an off brand of primer, the original springs might have to be restored. Put a #10 AN washer at the base of the hammer spring. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Curly SASS#57086 Posted July 29, 2021 Author Share Posted July 29, 2021 Waited until tonight wishing for cooler weather but had to shoot at 100 temp tonight. Loaded 40 rounds with CCI and 40 rounds with Winchester. Shot both in rifle and revolver with NO FTF. It looks like I was weak before and did not seat the primers deep enough to have ignition. Thank everyone for their advise and will try not to mess up again in the future. Sure is more fun when they all go bang. DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 11 minutes ago, Diamond Curly SASS#57086 said: Waited until tonight wishing for cooler weather but had to shoot at 100 temp tonight. Loaded 40 rounds with CCI and 40 rounds with Winchester. Shot both in rifle and revolver with NO FTF. It looks like I was weak before and did not seat the primers deep enough to have ignition. Thank everyone for their advise and will try not to mess up again in the future. Sure is more fun when they all go bang. DC Thanks for sharing. We all get the advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 Now might be the time to (one time) clean primer pockets in your fired brass. I rarely do so, only if I FEEL a rough seating pull or find a high primer sticking out of the pocket. But with your wide spread failure to seat problem, you may have a lot of residue in the pockets. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Curly SASS#57086 Posted July 29, 2021 Author Share Posted July 29, 2021 8 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said: Now might be the time to (one time) clean primer pockets in your fired brass. I rarely do so, only if I FEEL a rough seating pull or find a high primer sticking out of the pocket. But with your wide spread failure to seat problem, you may have a lot of residue in the pockets. good luck, GJ Thanks, DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roscoe Regulator Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 18 hours ago, Chief Rick said: In my post, which you quoted, I stated I was shooting with a stock gun. What is an off-brand primer? I stated I used Winchester, Remington and Federal. Some "stock SAA clones" have special springs from the factory (like my Uberti El PatronBelezza). "off brand" would clearly be "not Federal". There has been much discussion lately about considering or using alternative in lieu of Federal availability. Would you like me to delete my post that quoted you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Rick Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Roscoe Regulator said: Some "stock SAA clones" have special springs from the factory (like my Uberti El PatronBelezza). "off brand" would clearly be "not Federal". There has been much discussion lately about considering or using alternative in lieu of Federal availability. Would you like me to delete my post that quoted you? No need to delete anything. Just asking for clarification. As posted earlier, no manufacturer should be releasing a firearm that can't reliably set off any primer. I've never heard of Winchester, Remington or even CCI referred to as off brand. It's not like they're the "Great Value" of primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roscoe Regulator Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 12 minutes ago, Chief Rick said: No need to delete anything. Just asking for clarification. As posted earlier, no manufacturer should be releasing a firearm that can't reliably set off any primer. I've never heard of Winchester, Remington or even CCI referred to as off brand. It's not like they're the "Great Value" of primers. I don't think those shooting unmodified guns are complaining much about primers not detonating. It is the big deal in CAS with so many guns modified to run fast and easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Rick Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 38 minutes ago, Roscoe Regulator said: I don't think those shooting unmodified guns are complaining much about primers not detonating. It is the big deal in CAS with so many guns modified to run fast and easy. That's why the first thing I did when I had failure to fire was to get a stock pistol to verify. Even with a stock gun I was getting failure to fire. Irritating... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roscoe Regulator Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 18 minutes ago, Chief Rick said: That's why the first thing I did when I had failure to fire was to get a stock pistol to verify. Even with a stock gun I was getting failure to fire. Irritating... You posted earlier: "Primers are/were seating fine. Visual inspection conducted after loading to just below flush." It occurred to me that "below flush" is not necessary and moves the primer farther from the firing pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Chapo Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 29 minutes ago, Roscoe Regulator said: You posted earlier: "Primers are/were seating fine. Visual inspection conducted after loading to just below flush." It occurred to me that "below flush" is not necessary and moves the primer farther from the firing pin. If you scroll up, there's a direct quote from the primer manufacturer that states the spec is between .002" and .006" below flush (thus the negative sign on there). It appears that not only do I disagree with your claim, the primer manufacturers advise the same thing--below flush is ideal. That said, .002-.006" is not very much, so the distinction between "flush" and ".002" below flush" isn't much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roscoe Regulator Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 11 minutes ago, Chacón said: If you scroll up, there's a direct quote from the primer manufacturer that states the spec is between .002" and .006" below flush (thus the negative sign on there). It appears that not only do I disagree with your claim, the primer manufacturers advise the same thing--below flush is ideal. That said, .002-.006" is not very much, so the distinction between "flush" and ".002" below flush" isn't much. It is only necessary that a primer not be "high". Among my Lee presses and Hornady LnL AP, I don't believe I have a press capable of seating "below flush". ICBW. The point is that "below flush" works against a strong primer hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Payne Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 On 7/27/2021 at 2:20 PM, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Spend more time on your press and you will learn the 'feel' of when the primer is fully seated in the case. I say that as one who has loaded on a Dillon 550 since 1987. Started reloading in 1967.... BTW, all Dillons and just about every other maker, primer seats on the down stroke of the ram. OLG The Dillon 550 & 650 both seat the primer on the upstroke of the arm. Maybe the 750 as well. 1050 is on the downstroke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 15 minutes ago, Max Payne said: The Dillon 550 & 650 both seat the primer on the upstroke of the arm. Maybe the 750 as well. 1050 is on the downstroke. Reread my post-l clearly stated 'ram', not the arm/handle. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Payne Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 1 minute ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Reread my post-l clearly stated 'ram', not the arm/handle. OLG Oops! Sorry! These poor old 74 YO eyes...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 10 minutes ago, Max Payne said: Oops! Sorry! These poor old 74 YO eyes...... No worries, my fingers don't type what I want either OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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