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stef75

looking to 'upgrade' to 44 sp

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keen on setting up a larger calibre, normally use a 357 rossi and I'd like to run 44sp in a 44mag lever.  I know its gun and OAL dependant whether  they like the shorter cases, but wondered if there is an advantage between a 92 action and a marlin 94? Does one action show itself to be a more reliable 44sp option? Also on a side note, will 44sp in a 44 mag chamber in a lever gun result in the same blowby/blowback effect the 45 colt has? I'd avoid using it if so. 

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Posted (edited)

I ran 44 specials in a Marlin they fed ok,  then I found a 66 in the rare 44 special and it was nice.  I have since gone back to 357.  I don't have any experience with a 92 in 44 SP.  The blowby didn't seem as bad as the 45colt.  I don't know why but I had a Marlin 94cb in 45 and it had terrible blow by.  You couldn't shoot it without safety glasses.

Edited by Middlefork Bob, SASS #53945

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Thanks  for that reply Bob. Yes I'm not a fan of excessive blowback either. Saw my buddy struggle with it in 45colt- running hot non cowboy loads were the only way to get around it. Just wondered if it occurs to any degree with 44sp in a mag chamber or even the 44 mag itself. 

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I started with the Marlin in 44 mag.  Ran it for awhile until it developed the "Marlin jam".  I picked up a 66 in 44 Spec and then added a 73 in 44 spec.

My brother fixed the Marlin (welded the crack in the carrier) and then I sold it.

Currently use 38-40, but still have the 44s in the safe to use with smokeless. 

 

BS

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My Marlin in 44 Mag/44 Spl runs specials just fine, but since I have more magnum brass than special, I usually just load the special loads in magnum brass, and mark them with a black stripe on the base.  Never had an issue with it this way.  

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Easier to find/buy .44 mag brass, than Special.

Both of my Marlin 94's in .44 Mag feed/cycle anything I feed it.

These 2 are older JM marked Marlins, and run the Ranger Point Precision extractor.

OLG

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I shoot .45 Colt mainly, and while I must get some blowback due to the sooty cases, it's never really been something that bothers me.

 

With that out of the way, .44 Special.   Great cartridge that is very difficult to find guns for.   When I first got into the game, I figured .44 Special would be my caliber of choice since I had a Rossi 92 in .44 Magnum and figured on running specials in it.  Over 10 years later, and I still don't have a pair of main match pistols in this caliber, cuz I just can't find them for a reasonable price.   I do have 1 Uberti Clone, and I got it less than a year ago.   I don't count the Buntline or the 2 sheriff's models I have in .44 Special, they are more novelty guns than serious main match ones in my opinion.   

 

For rifles I have the aforementioned Rossi 92, and a real Winchester made in 1908 that started life as a .38-40 that someone rebarrelled to .44 Magnum.   Both guns are very accurate, and pleasant to shoot, and both of them tend to not feed .44 Specials correctly.   Jams, stovepipes, etc seem to happen far to often.  Switched to .44 Magnum in both rifles, a minimum loading which is very similar to a maximum Special load, and all of the feed problems went away.    Since then I have obtained an Uberti Clone in .44 Magnum, and will get another sooner or later.   

 

If you REALLY want to use .44 Special, I recommend that you find a rifle actually chambered for it.   They are rather uncommon, but I do know that Uberti once made some 73's in that caliber, as I saw, and didn't buy one, once.  Downloaded .44 Magnum might be easier to do.   But when all is said and done, it's probably even easier to go with .45 Colt.

 

Take it with a grain of salt.

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 I have a I have a Marlin that will run 44 magnum just fine but 44 Special not at all. My 1866 carbine 44 Special however is very enjoyable and reliable to shoot.

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25 minutes ago, Dantankerous said:

 I have a I have a Marlin that will run 44 magnum just fine but 44 Special not at all. My 1866 carbine 44 Special however is very enjoyable and reliable to shoot.

 

Is this a feed issue?

If YES-Remove the extractor and see what that does.

Some times you have to camphor the bottom edge of the ejectors wall to case rim clearance. I had to do this to both of my M/94's in 44 mag.

OLG

 

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I just a few months ago picked up a JM stamped Marlin 94 in 44 mag and am running 44 spl in it. I got a lot of blowby at first, but after annealing the brass and increasing bullet weight to 200g (over 4.5g red dot) blowby is non existent now. Starline has 44spl brass so it's easy to come by and my marlin feeds it flawlessly. 

 

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I run .44 specials in my OMV's, and a Marlin 94 cb w/hexagon barrel, all in Magnum. Never had a hiccup with any of them. Had a '66 in .44 special, also ran great. Only thing I have done to the Marlin is stone some of the internals for smoothness. I got into the specials as my pard ran .357's , and I told him that wasn't a true Cowboy caliber, because Marty Robbins never sang about a "short barreled, fast" .357.

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1 hour ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

 

Is this a feed issue?

If YES-Remove the extractor and see what that does.

Some times you have to camphor the bottom edge of the ejectors wall to case rim clearance. I had to do this to both of my M/94's in 44 mag.

OLG

 

 

I do not know what the deal is but since this gun does not get used in CAS, I never worried about it. 44 Magnum is why I bought this one. A nice camp gun, as it were. JM too. ;)

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1 hour ago, Dantankerous said:

 

I do not know what the deal is but since this gun does not get used in CAS, I never worried about it. 44 Magnum is why I bought this one. A nice camp gun, as it were. JM too. ;)

What bullet shape are you using?

For the most part, you want a RNFP shape.

The easiest check is to remove the ejector and see if it will feed.

My bet the real issue, is interference with the extractor's nose steering the bullet's nose away from the chamber.

After I installed this extractor in my 44's-all feed and extraction issues stopped.

https://www.rangerpointstore.com/shop-all/marlin-1894-feed-issues-m-94-extractor-claw-2017-all-new-design/

 

OLG

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I have a Marlin 94ss in 44 mag/sp that actually prefers 44 sp, and I also have a Rossi 92 in 44 mag that runs 44 sp as well, but I know that’s not the norm, usually both prefer the longer mag brass, but I love both my rifles :D

 

BD

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My wife shoots a Marlin 44 Mag older JM that Widder did his magic on it, all I load is 44 Spec with a 165 grn bullet. It does get dirty, but it's easy to clean.

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I have OM Vaqueros with cylinders chambered in .44 Mangle-em (aka .44 Extra-long Russian), paired with a Rossi in .44 Magnum.  For CAS, I load 7.5gr Universal behind a 213.5 gr. bullet, used in both the rifle and pistols.  MV from the 7-1/2" Vaquero is about 950 ft/sec, and about 1050 from the 22" barreled carbine.  When I switch cylinders in my Vaqueros to .44-40 and swap rifles for the Rossi .44-40, I up the charge weight to 8.0 gr. Universal, with the same bullet.  MV are identical. The difference is due to the smaller case capacity of the .44 Magnum.  Using the magnum brass avoids having to clean the chambers ahead of the shorter .44 Spl. cases. 

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On 7/13/2019 at 6:53 AM, stef75 said:

Thanks  for that reply Bob. Yes I'm not a fan of excessive blowback either. Saw my buddy struggle with it in 45colt- running hot non cowboy loads were the only way to get around it. Just wondered if it occurs to any degree with 44sp in a mag chamber or even the 44 mag itself. 

My experience says that sealing under low pressure is an slight issue. 44 Mag cases are designed with much higher than cowboy pressures in mind. I would have thought that a 45 LC wouldn't have an issue sealing, as their design pressure is at cowboy pressure. I've owned a couple of 44-40 rifles, sealing not an issue even at low pressure, 5.5 gr of Red Dot low.

 

To run clean(ish), and accurate, it is hard to beat Trail Boss, behind a Speer 240 gr swaged SWC in the 44 Spl/Mag. It has a slightly concave base that helps seal. TB is a bit odd, higher pressure with low velocity. The max load from the Hodgdon site is hard to beat. Es and Sd are good. Hodgdon recommends the Rem 2 1/2 primer, good choice IMO. 

 

ewMl31hm.jpg

 

A '92 has some ammo preferences, it is designed around a 1.6" OAL cartridge. A bit shorter is OK, a bit longer is a jam. I switch between Spl and Mag cases depending on the bullet. A Keith 429421, or a 429360 works best in a Spl case. Something like a 427666 is good in a mag case. The '92 was mainly a 44-40 rifle, 44-40 ammo is 1.59" long, and with it's thin neck, it seals like it was designed to. A Marlin 1894 with it's oversized bore, shallow grooves and 1:38 twist is a bag of snakes, I owned 1, never again. They advertise deep cut Ballard, IMO it is not. Again, my opinion, but the SAAAMI spec for the 44 Mag Rifle is out to lunch. 431/424 and 1:38, no sir I don't like it. I have a Rossi '92, tighter bore/groove, faster twist, what a joy. The rest of the world has one spec, 44 Mag, for rifle and pistol. Only SAMMI has a rifle and a pistol spec. that are different. If you shop for a Rossi, just remember some are good, some not so much. 

 

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