Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 10 hours ago, Bugler said: I am starting to wonder if maybe we should just hang a 4 foot x 8 foot metal plate about 10 feet out and let'r rip Bugler I see...so to you there is no medium? One person want's a postage stamp size target...folks complain...so you think that they want a barn size target???? Here in lies the problem. Some can't seem to understand that folks generally don't like little micro-sized targets but at the same time don't care for barn sized targets either. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 10 hours ago, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said: Ya do that, the shooter's eyes get big as apple pies, their lever hand & trigger finger get out of synch, & their jacking out rounds cuz they are trying to go too fast -- Its a comedy of errors!! Come watch me prove this...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugler Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 27 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: I see...so to you there is no medium? One person want's a postage stamp size target...folks complain...so you think that they want a barn size target???? Here in lies the problem. Some can't seem to understand that folks generally don't like little micro-sized targets but at the same time don't care for barn sized targets either. Phantom Small attempt at some humor...............nothing more, nothing less. Bugler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Bugler said: Small attempt at some humor...............nothing more, nothing less. Bugler Your humorous post made in jest is some folks reality. Think I'm just being argumentative? I'm not as I've experienced this very thing. A club known for small and far targets put up a 4x6' Metal plate and basically said here's a targets for all the complainers. They just didn't get it... And couldn't understand why attendance had dropped off significantly. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 13 hours ago, Bugler said: I am starting to wonder if maybe we should just hang a 4 foot x 8 foot metal plate about 10 feet out and let'r rip Bugler That was done at a Regional Match. For 1 stage, It was a pistol target. You'd be surprised at the number of shooters who walked their shots right off the target! Dawg said, "Ya do that, the shooter's eyes get big as apple pies, their lever hand & trigger finger get out of synch, & their jacking out rounds cuz they are trying to go too fast -- Its a comedy of errors!!" Whatever could go wrong 'tween thumb, brain and trigger finger, did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 7 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: You responded with a confused icon to my previous response. If one says that "it's all good, we ask have to shoot the same stages", you are basically in support of such things as 3x6" targets. Things such as this size target will drive away many folks that don't find that kind of "challenge" fun... So It's irrelevant that we all shoot the same stages when discussing the success or failure of a club. Phantom I believe in inclusiveness .I like them all, and enjoy shooting all size targets . It is sort of like Ice Cream . Best Wishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorelei Longshot, SASS #44256 Life Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 I've seen lots of shooters "walk right up and off" a target the size of a buffalo which was right in front of them, up close. I've always said "There's no target too big or too close that I can't miss" and have proved it myself more than once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Lorelei Longshot, SASS #44256 Life said: I've seen lots of shooters "walk right up and off" a target the size of a buffalo which was right in front of them, up close. I've always said "There's no target too big or too close that I can't miss" and have proved it myself more than once. Hee hee! BTDT! I think the following is a funny story. YMMV! At an annual match (not my home venue) we had plate KDs. One shooter didn't get two KDs and got rather perturbed and said the targets were faulty. PM showed him how easy they went down. Well I was going to be smart and use my rifle (140 grain bullets) on the five KDs and my pistol rounds (108 grain) for the next five pistol rounds on a huge bear. LOL! I mixed up my pistols and shot the light rounds on the KDs. They all fell. Then I used the heavier rounds on the bear and I walked right off the target, missing two on the largest target at the match. I don't know if the complaining shooter was embarrassed. He should have been. I got a hearty laugh out of my performance despite missing that big, close target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Langston Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Not trying to be controversial here but where is the argument? If a match director puts up dollar bill size targets at ten yards, or dinner plates at two yards, it's all about the unexpected and how each of us approach the given stage that is created. That's what makes it fun. We are all shooting the same scenario - variety is what keeps us on our toes. Sheriff Langston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 The largest target at Hell On Wheels this year was a 24 x 24 square. It was out at 6 yards and was one of the most missed targets with rifle and pistol. I have a different take on CAS targets myself. To me I am killing bad guys, they have a 16 x 16 or larger chest area. It's the best defensive shooting practice available. After years of setting up matches I've found that there are more misses with in your face targets vs. targets placed at a moderate distance of 5-6 yards for pistol and 9-12 for rifle. As for myself, I prefer a couple close stages, some moderately close, and several at a little distance. All with plenty of movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Here is my performance shooting a tombstone rack. The first plate is something like 10" wide by maybe 14" tall. The distance is definitely not close - guessing 6 steps. The plates get progressively smaller and further out. The last target is about 4" wide by 6" tall and 2 more steps away. The scenerio calls for taking as many shots as required to knock down the plates. Any left over go on the dump. Any plates left standing is a miss. Any miss on the dump is a miss. It's funny to watch people clean the plates and then miss the dump! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 28 minutes ago, Sheriff Langston said: Not trying to be controversial here but where is the argument? If a match director puts up dollar bill size targets at ten yards, or dinner plates at two yards, it's all about the unexpected and how each of us approach the given stage that is created. That's what makes it fun. We are all shooting the same scenario - variety is what keeps us on our toes. Sheriff Langston It's what makes it fun for you... Buy I know folks both young and old that couldn't hit a dollar bill target at 10 yards to save their life. So why put targets out there that you know some folks won't be able to hit?? It's this philosophy that has killed many a club. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Your key person may think they know shooting, but they obviously know very little about most defensive or combat shooting practice. Have them watch some youtube video's about self defense. Yes, you want to hit as accurately as you can, but every hit helps to at least distract the enemy. Trying for perfection in both competition and defense will almost certainly make you LOSE. So only emphasizing "bullseye" type shooting is hindering the competitor and any self defense practice. Here is just one source: So those who want to try to get you to improve know that for Practice: You start with basics, try for accuracy regardless of time Then work to gain as much speed and REASONABLE accuracy (body hits) as you can. Then finish with whatever you need to work on - sometimes speed, sometimes a little accuracy. As such, the top shooters have known and done this. So they can shoot that small target MUCH faster than everyone else. So have that small target means the top shooters will run away with the match. They may not enjoy it and certainly most others will feel even worse - because they see how much more poorly they have performed compared to usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knifehand Joe Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Correlation vs causation can be a tricky thing. For best results, go directly to the source and ask the shooters. It can be as simple as an anonymous feedback card at the end of the match: What (and why) was your favorite stage? What (and why) was your least favorite stage? The "why" is critical, as there are too many other factors that you could speculate on...target size, sequence, positions, shooting order, etc. If you want to get scientific about it, have two stages that are identical aside from a single factor, then survey shooters as to which of the two they preferred (and why). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 The free market will decide if a club would survive just small targets. I for one like a mix, I shoot all the shooting disciplines and enjoy them all. This is just a game not to be taken to seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 3 hours ago, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said: The free market will decide if a club would survive just small targets. I for one like a mix, I shoot all the shooting disciplines and enjoy them all. This is just a game not to be taken to seriously. I would suggest not ignoring historical data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Have not seen this around these parts, may be a west of the Mississippi issue.Not saying it does not happen just have not seen it since I started shooting Sass back in 1988. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Hi Folks, If your goal is preparation for self defense, you don't want to be shooting small targets at a far distance. You would be better justified by shooting someone who was threatening you from close up. JMHO, Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said: Hi Folks, If your goal is preparation for self defense, you don't want to be shooting small targets at a far distance. You would be better justified by shooting someone who was threatening you from close up. JMHO, Allie I'm pretty sure if you shot an attacker in the back yard at 50 yards the law would not be on your side. That would be offensive shooting. I've often wondered about about IDPA shooting, the distances they shoot aren't defensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Gambler Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 The distances they shoot go beyond self defense in order to make it easier to shoot at real SD distances. There's no way to practice for the adrenaline you'll be feeling in a real shooting. In shooting sports we try to replicate that with a timer and harder to hit targets. For anyone who played sports; when you worked out, did you do exactly what you'd be expected to do during the game, or did you go beyond? I played football and I never heard a coach say "300 lbs is plenty, none of your opponents weigh more than that". Also never had a coach call off the wind sprints because we'd never actually run 20 100 yard sprints back to back in a game. The smaller more distant targets are how we go beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 11 hours ago, Assassin said: I'm pretty sure if you shot an attacker in the back yard at 50 yards the law would not be on your side. That would be offensive shooting. I've often wondered about about IDPA shooting, the distances they shoot aren't defensive. If he was using a rifle and you were in a wide open area ,you would run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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