Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 19 minutes ago, Putnam Under said: I purchased a pair of engraved Cattleman ll revolvers online not knowing about the new firing pin... Because they sure are purdy! Putnam Under (clever alias, btw), being as you are new to the Wire, you may not know, but if you are going to talk about purdy new guns, you are supposed to gratify the rest of us with some pictures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putnam Under Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 Abilene I'll post some soon as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 5 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: Here's my thoughts. I would certainly rather have a standard hammer/firing pin like the original Colt design. So changing a Model P to the new style doesn't thrill me. But what about the standard Cattleman? That hammer already had (for a lot of years now) a "hammer-block" below the firing pin, with internal linkage down to the safety notch. You can't see the block with the hammer down, but you can still see the small screw on top of the hammer and the slot in the rear of the hammer. Not too many people were complaining about that (or they didn't like it they could just buy a Model P). So what is happening to that gun is that you are trading a visible safety for an invisible safety. Aesthetically, the gun is being improved. Except for that 3-click thing. Still don't like that. David, those would be the old "D" cam guns. They were notorious for going out of time with hard use. That hammer continued to show up on the 2 position base pin guns but the block didn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 10 minutes ago, Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 said: David, those would be the old "D" cam guns. They were notorious for going out of time with hard use. That hammer continued to show up on the 2 position base pin guns but the block didn't work. Well if they were not only an eyesore but also didn't work (not that I would carry a round under the hammer with one of those), that's sort of adding insult to injury. I might prefer a retractable firing pin than that. Having said all that, I have an old 44 spcl Thunderer with the hammer block safety and I've kind of gotten used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catgut Cav Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 17 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: Putnam Under (clever alias, btw), being as you are new to the Wire, you may not know, but if you are going to talk about purdy new guns, you are supposed to gratify the rest of us with some pictures! Perhaps I can oblige. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Catgut Cav said: Perhaps I can oblige. Thanks Catgut, but the reason I was prodding Putnam for pics is because his are engraved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catgut Cav Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 I missed that little tid bit there Abilene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucharest Jack , S.A.S.S. #60581 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Personally I think it's a good improvement. My main gripe with my SAA is that I cannot carry 6 rounds safely. That problem is solved. Uberti makes a darn nice weapon and I'm glad to see them not resting on their laurels. If it bothers you that much, get a Colt. But I will say that if you're shooting an 1873 in .45 Colt, you can't really take issue with the authenticity of this firing pin system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putnam Under Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I don't have any good photos so these will have to do. The yellow tint is due to lighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Very nice! Nickle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Crimes Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Purdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 On 8/8/2017 at 11:19 PM, Bucharest Jack , S.A.S.S. #60581 said: Personally I think it's a good improvement. My main gripe with my SAA is that I cannot carry 6 rounds safely. That problem is solved. Uberti makes a darn nice weapon and I'm glad to see them not resting on their laurels. If it bothers you that much, get a Colt. But I will say that if you're shooting an 1873 in .45 Colt, you can't really take issue with the authenticity of this firing pin system. The Colt 1873 SAA peacemaker was first chambered in 45 colt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putnam Under Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I'm not sure what the finish is, they describe it aa "Coin finish white". It looks like nickle or stainless. Here's a corrected photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 If they are in the white, be darn sure to keep them oiled! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putnam Under Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Ok good to know . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catgut Cav Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 16 hours ago, Major Crimes said: Purdy Darn right, purdy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Instead of oil, you may want to investigate using a wax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucharest Jack , S.A.S.S. #60581 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 On 8/10/2017 at 9:48 AM, Redwood Kid said: The Colt 1873 SAA peacemaker was first chambered in 45 colt. Sorry, I was referring to the rifle. I should have been more specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron "Ironhead" Smith Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 On 8/7/2017 at 4:32 AM, JohnHenryQuick said: The majority of the people poo-pooing them have never even laid eyes on one. I'll reserve judgement until I hear about reliability from actual owners - one guy saying he doesn't like the looks of one after taking it apart is hardly reliability data... Here you go, results of today's testing. I'm having a go around with Taylors on this issue right now. Tuned Gunfuighter. Out of the box (after a quick cleaning and oiling) 1 of 20 rounds fired. ONE! Round! Of! 20! Fired! ONE! 5 rounds each Aguila, Jamison, Fiocchi and Winchester cowboy loads tested. ONE round fired out of 20! Light firing pin strikes on all 19 that failed, some were no deeper than scratches on the primer surface. Loaded each into the older Smokewagon and they all went bang. Called Taylors. Try taking out the washer under the mainspring. Very noticeable difference in trigger pull. Go back to range. Expended the box of Jamison with the 1873 rifle previous range session, saving Aguila for Ambush. So 6 hours ago I tested 25 rounds each Winchester and Fiocchi cowboy loads. 40 of 50 fired, that's still a 20% failure rate. We'll see what Taylor's has to say tomorrow morning other than "heavier mainspring". Because if that's the case why the hell did I buy a tuned gun?. Good thing I was only planning to shoot Wild Bunch at Ambush since I can't be there both cowboy days. Also a good thing that is not a defensive carry gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 26 minutes ago, Ron "Ironhead" Smith said: ... Loaded each into the older Smokewagon and they all went bang... Can you compare the firing pin protrusion between the two guns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron "Ironhead" Smith Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 8 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: Can you compare the firing pin protrusion between the two guns? Both are just a hair over .040". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron "Ironhead" Smith Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Taylors is sending an old style hammer and trigger at dealer cost. The retractable pin is not inertial, there is a lever on the trigger that pushes a widget inside the hammer that causes the firing pin to protrude further. I just got back from the range and a quick experiment. Load 4 so the hammer first falls on an empty cylinder and hold it back firmly then slip hammer; 12 of 12 fired no problem. Tape a shim behind the trigger such that it releases the hammer but does not reach full travel (.080" thick bit of strip plastic); repeat slip hammer; 0 of 12 fired. Fire 15 as normal deliberately jerking the trigger hard; 15 of 15 fired but as you'd expect about as accurate as throwing bullets down range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catgut Cav Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Out of the box my two cattlemen had an issue with the cylinders locking up. The cartridges would hang up on a ridge on the back of the frame. Found a bit of info online and some videos of the issue. Other than that, they fired flawlessly. I tuned my two Ubertis recently. Did a little filing and installed a set of Wolff springs. I'll have some range time this weekend to see if I gave myself a light primer strike problem. I'm not sure if I was expecting too much, or if my revolvers were quite good from the factory. After doing my home gunsmithing and installing the springs, I thought there would be a greater improvement. Don't get me wrong, the improved smoothness was noticeable, just not "Wow what a difference!" noticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catgut Cav Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 So... It looks like I created a problem for myself. Took my two newly tuned Ubertis out for some practice this weekend. Both guns had an intermittent issue with failure to fire. I probably should have taken a closer look at the rounds that didn't go bang, but, at a cursory glance, it seemed like the primer wasn't struck at all. I really should have looked closer. All the rounds did fire after a second try . So, now I'm left wondering if the problem is the retractible firing pin, or the lighter spring. So, I've reinstalled the factory hammer spring in one of my pistols, the other keeps the lighter spring, for now. More range time next weekend will hopefully shed a brighter light on my issue. All my reloading has been done using CCI primers. From what I've read, that could be a big part of my problem also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waxahachie Kid #17017 L Posted September 4, 2017 Author Share Posted September 4, 2017 Well, I have two (count 'em two) brand new old-style non-safety hammers, and two old style triggers, that I am looking at, as I type this. They stand ready to replace the retractable firing pin hammers and triggers, in any new Cimarron/Uberti revolvers, that I might purchase in the future. I also have a nice new trash can, in which to deposit the retractable firing pin hammers and triggers, that I will remove. Or...perhaps, on second thought, I may paint a small bulls-eye on them, and set them up in my son's cow pasture, and see what damage I can do to them with the new non-safety hammers on the Cimarron/Uberti revolvers. Now that really will be more fun than just simply dropping them in the new trash can I have. Click, Click, Click, Click...I just gotta hear them FOUR clicks. Life is good (provided you have the old style hammers and triggers on hand, that is...and I do!) Parting shot: Politicians and diapers have something in common. Both should be changed regularly, and both for the same reason. My two bits. W.K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45 Dragoon Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 W.K. It's probably more to do with the height and roughness of the hammer cam and or the tension of the bolt arm the cam is having to move on the way down. Of course, changing the hammer and trigger will more likely than not, change the timing of the action . . . which creates different problems. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catgut Cav Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 W.K. I'm not convinced my problem is with the new style firing pin. Not yet anyway. There are a couple other suspects that could be causing my problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickel City Dude Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, Catgut Cav said: W.K. I'm not convinced my problem is with the new style firing pin. Not yet anyway. There are a couple other suspects that could be causing my problems. CC What are the other suspects? The new Cattelman2 guns have been getting a lot of bad reviews lately and I am ready to buy some new guns and would like to know how dependable these guns are before purchase. The picture is just me testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catgut Cav Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 1 minute ago, Nickel City Dude said: CC What are the other suspects? CCI primers and/or the lighter hammer spring. Perhaps the two combined. The guns fired 100% of the time before I changed the springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45 Dragoon Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 Lol, I'll give ya 2 more gusses!! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 Good question to be moved to the FAQ forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Crimes Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 1 hour ago, John Boy said: Good question to be moved to the FAQ forum I am not a 100% sure you got the hang of a "discussion" Forum You do know that if your bored with a topic you don't need to open it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 Quote You do know that if your bored with a topic you don't need to open it Major - your absolutely right and I don't open this thread ... more intelligent answers are on the SASS WB forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putnam Under Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 I sent both of mine to Jim Bowie straight from the gunshop. So I can't speak as to what they were like when they left the factory. But they shoot awesome now. I've put about 500 rounds through them without a single problem. They feel just as good as my rugers and better than my Great Western 2's. So far I'm very happy with them. Time will tell if that remains the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45 Dragoon Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Ok , well my EL Patron Comp has a less than 3 lb. hammer draw (measured from half cock), 100% reliable ignition. It's not the spring that is the problem. It's all the "other stuff" (I mentioned) that causes failures to fire. The force generated and focused onto that small firing pin area is plenty. The force robbed by the "stuff" (high cams, rough cams combined with too strong bolt arms that push hammers to the left to rub hammer slots/frames . . . . . that's where you need to look). Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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