Cimarron/Uberti Cattleman II Revolvers

[Waxahachie Kid #17017 L]

Howdy Saddle Pals...

 

I am not on this site very often, so this topic may have already been discussed and cussed, but I am seeing some ads for the Cimarron/Uberti Cattleman II with a "retractable firing pin".

Has anyone seen or does anyone own one of these? 

On the surface it doesn't sound like something I would be interested in, but as I said, I have only just been seeing these in ads on-line. 

Is this another lawyer/liability thing??? 

 

Thanks.

W.K.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

7 minutes ago, Waxahachie Kid #17017 L said:

...Is this another lawyer/liability thing??? 

 

Thanks.

W.K.

 

That is a lot of it, but there are also some people who would like a gun that can take 6 and has the firing pin on the hammer.

 

All the Uberti SAA's from the various importers will have it.  The guns only have 3 clicks, but the two position base pin has been done away with.

 

 

[Waxahachie Kid #17017 L]

Well...since Ruger already has a transfer bar system, that allows 6 rounds to be carried, yet S.A.S.S. rules still require only 5 rounds be loaded, then this new retractable firing pin still will not mean we can load 6 rounds at a match, unless of course there is a rule change.  I looked on-line and saw how the new pin works.  Looks like to me it is just another thing that has been added that may break.  Time will tell how delicate the new pin system will be, and how prone to malfunction.  Thankfully I have pretty much purchased the clones I wanted, so I won't have to be saddled with this thing. 

I guess what gets my goat is that someone, somewhere, is always trying to "keep me safe" with warnings on the barrel, and several safeties, and now this. 

One reason I got into this very expensive sport is to be as authentic as I can be, in clothing, and firearms, in this modern day and age.  The clones helped me do this, without costing a small fortune, that a genuine Colt revolver now costs (the first Colt I purchased, in 1973, cost me a whopping $235.00 !!  Now, you cannot even buy the cardboard "Stagecoach box", that that Colt came in, for less than $350.00).  The clones make it possible for those of us that are not rich to enjoy this sport.   

I realize that not everyone is all that concerned with authenticity, and I also know that authenticity, like art, is...many times...in the eye of the beholder.  

Many are very safety conscience (and that is a good thing), so I figure a lot of Saddle Pals will not mind this change, and will applaud this change...but...the more complex a thing is, many times, the more prone it is to malfunction. As the semi-old saying goes... "K.I.S.,S.".

As for me, the new "retractable firing pin" is something I am not interested in, and thus I will "retract" my hard earned money from purchasing one. But that is me...and not you. and this is my opinion, and my opinion and 75, or more, cents, may buy you a soft drink. 

I guess I will leave this here tirade with one last lament.  Where is this all going, and where will it all end?  Will we, some day, be shooting with only virtual firearms?  That really would be the ultimate in safe shooting, don't ya know.  Good grief...don't let Gov. Jerry Brown read this, or it may give him ideas!!!    

 

No animals were harmed or killed in this S.A.S.S. wire lament.

 

My two bits.

W.K. 

 

 

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

To me it's an Answer to a Question NOT even asked !!!!  So I will not be buying the NEW UN-IMPROVED "Cattleman" revolvers ... I guess another set of Uberti's in .38-40 aren't coming my way unless I can get them sans the new hammer ...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

Nothing new here, this video is over a year old. Scroll forward to about 200 to see the retractable firing pin.

 

 

 

I don't know this for a fact, but I'll bet it would be fairly simple to replace the hammer and trigger with ones that do not have this feature.

 

Also, I'll bet there are still plenty of the older models still in the pipeline at the importers.

 

Do I like it? No. Would I buy it? No. But I don't buy many new guns anymore anyway.

 

By the way, I just picked up a New Vaquero in 45 Colt. I don't have any problem with transfer bars in Rugers, I bought my first one in 1975. Of course I do prefer the old Three Screws.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[John Henry Quick]

9 hours ago, Waxahachie Kid #17017 L said:

Howdy Saddle Pals...

 

I am not on this site very often, so this topic may have already been discussed and cussed, but I am seeing some ads for the Cimarron/Uberti Cattleman II with a "retractable firing pin".

Has anyone seen or does anyone own one of these? 

On the surface it doesn't sound like something I would be interested in, but as I said, I have only just been seeing these in ads on-line. 

Is this another lawyer/liability thing??? 

 

Thanks.

W.K.

 

7 hours ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

To me it's an Answer to a Question NOT even asked !!!!  So I will not be buying the NEW UN-IMPROVED "Cattleman" revolvers ... I guess another set of Uberti's in .38-40 aren't coming my way unless I can get them sans the new hammer ...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

 

I'm not sure I understand the rush to judgement.  Ruger's transfer bar system doesn't seem to be slowing anyone down at the retail counter and I've never heard of anyone complaining about Uberti replacing the hand spring with a coil spring. 

 

It seems to me that if Uberti can make guns that are the most visually accurate guns made today also safe to carry six rounds without 1) ruining the trigger pull or 2) becoming less reliable, then that's a good thing.  I think I'll wait for the evidence to come in before passing judgement.

 

 

 

 

[Warden Callaway]

1 hour ago, JohnHenryQuick said:

 

 

 

I'm not sure I understand the rush to judgement.  Ruger's transfer bar system doesn't seem to be slowing anyone down at the retail counter and I've never heard of anyone complaining about Uberti replacing the hand spring with a coil spring. 

 

It seems to me that if Uberti can make guns that are the most visually accurate guns made today also safe to carry six rounds without 1) ruining the trigger pull or 2) becoming less reliable, then that's a good thing.  I think I'll wait for the evidence to come in before passing judgement.

 

 

 

 

 

The Ruger action not only slows we down at the retail counter,  it stops me cold.   I traded into a pair just to make sure I wasn't just stuck on Colt action.  Never warmed up to them. 

 

I have a second Taylor's Smoke Wagon Deluxe on backorder.   I've been assured it will have the conventional action.  We'll see. 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Don't forget the number of people shooting CAS is dropping and the cowboy market is not the main source of sales for these guns.  We only load five but the "public" does not understand the safety issues with the original Colt style action and likes to load six.  Uberti is doing what they have to do to survive in our litigious society.

[Dutch Nichols, SASS #6461]

Rather than accept that all new Ubertis have, this I called Cimarron, only the one model has this new hammer

Evil Roys and others do not and per Cimarron will stay that way

 

I love the way some folks rush to judgement as in "the sky is falling".

[watab kid]

good to know we still have access to the traditional ones , 

[Warden Callaway]

 

I keep looking for a review by someone who knows single actions.  This review gushes over how beautiful the gun is but it's unclear if he's even shot it or taken it apart.

[loosehammer]

Well, I don't like it at all.  But I already have two great 4-click Uberti's in 45 Colt.  Neither is a Cimarron.  The top is from Stoeger, super-tuned by a top SASS-recommended gunsmith, the other is a Taylor's Ranch Hand Deluxe tuned by Taylor's.  Both have sights like the Evil Roy.  Both have the two-position base pin. 

 

I also have two old-model Ruger Vaqueros which I consider junk in comparison (just DON'T LIKE the Rugers, they just feel clunky and awkward to me, and the two I have are nowhere near as accurate as these.  To each his own I guess).  I just don't buy into Rugers being all that much more reliable (Neither does Evil Roy).  Even if they are, I would still prefer the Ubertis just for their feel, balance, etc.

 

 

[Nate Kiowa Jones #6765]

The Rugers are the most rugged single action used for the game. But, the lock works is nothing like the Colt or colt Clones. The Colt and clones are based on a design dating back to the 1830's.

Even with the upgrades if run hard they don't last as well as the Rugers. But, history has shown the Clones with the add-on liability parts tend to be even worse for the long haul. The "D" cam uberti's, the Beretta Stampedes, the Taurus Gauchos, and farth back the Hammerli with the safet on the hammers.  All of these were pledged with small add-on parts problems. The Colt style lock is rugged for it's age but when you add those tiny liability parts they tend to prematurely fail. Of the clones the ones with the two position base pin are the most rugged. Not much to go wrong with it.

 

I'm not impressed with this new Uberti.

 

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy Again

 

Regarding the video referenced by Warden Callaway: Interesting how anybody who doesn't know what they're talking about can post a video on the Web.

 

I especially liked how he gushed over the brass trigger guard and brass backstrap.

 

More to the point, I would be interested to see if the trigger based mechanism that actuates the firing pin results in a longer trigger pull than with a more traditional Colt type lockwork.

 

Good point by Larsen. We're not the only folks buying these revolvers. Uberti is just doing what they have to to avoid lawsuits. Which is exactly what Ruger did when they added the transfer bar.

[Warden Callaway]

1 hour ago, Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 said:

Howdy Again

 

Regarding the video referenced by Warden Callaway: Interesting how anybody who doesn't know what they're talking about can post a video on the Web.

 

I especially liked how he gushed over the brass trigger guard and brass backstrap.

 

More to the point, I would be interested to see if the trigger based mechanism that actuates the firing pin results in a longer trigger pull than with a more traditional Colt type lockwork.

 

Good point by Larsen. We're not the only folks buying these revolvers. Uberti is just doing what they have to to avoid lawsuits. Which is exactly what Ruger did when they added the transfer bar.

 

I was being kind and didn't say it.  But he said all he knew or had heard.  

 

I kind of smile when it's pointed out the Colt action is 130 years old.  It was refined over those many years. The action is simple to maintain and repair.  

 

I think of the 1911:  At every turn another company is producing either a close copy or some "improved" version.  Still, the old original works just fine.  It's still the standard for comparison after more than 100 years. 

 

I has a passing through of buying a Cattleman II just to examine and shoot the pe-wattle out of it to see how it worked.  But I figured it would be too much of a strain on my relationship with my wife.

[John Henry Quick]

2 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

I has a passing through of buying a Cattleman II just to examine and shoot the pe-wattle out of it to see how it worked.  But I figured it would be too much of a strain on my relationship with my wife.

 

 

Aw, c'mon, Warden!  Where's your sense of priorities? 

 

Truthfully, I would like to hear what people who actually own and use them think and from pistolsmiths who have actually worked on them.  Them Eyetalyans can be a pretty clever lot and I refuse to poo-poo them until then.

[Warden Callaway]

Sawmill Mary and I put in a hard day yesterday mowing pasture and clearing trails so we decided to take today off.  We took a tour of several gunshops - the Bass Pro in Columbia being the last on our tour.  

 

There were a couple of Uberti Cattleman II and a Cattleman short stroke in the case.  I wanted to see the new Cattleman II and Sawmill Mary wanted to see the short stroke.  We got the sales lady's attention and she was most obliging in pulling out the short stroke for Sawmill Mary.   The gun had a trigger lock so Mary ask for the sales lady to remove it.  She said they were not allowed to remove the locks.  The sales lady turned to me and asked if I wanted to see one.. Never mind.  

[Wapaloosie73]

I've owned Ruger's since I was 18 years old, and while I've only been cowboy action shooting for a decade. I've packed mules and horses in Grizzly country since I was 18.

 

When there is a ruckus on the high line at 2 am and I grab my pistol and light and leave the wall tent? I want all six shots!

 

These old SA's are competing with DA's which utilize all six chambers in the cylinder, outside of cowboy action shooting. If the new system proves reliable? Why wouldn't a person want all six shots?

 

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

I got a Taylor's Cattleman with the firing pin in the hammer, pretty cool! 3 clicks instead of 4 and the round won't go off unless the trigger is pulled.

[John Henry Quick]

46 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I got a Taylor's Cattleman with the firing pin in the hammer, pretty cool! 3 clicks instead of 4 and the round won't go off unless the trigger is pulled.

 

When you halfcock it, does the cylinder line up properly with the gate?

 

[Catgut Cav]

On 8/4/2017 at 7:51 PM, JohnHenryQuick said:

 

When you halfcock it, does the cylinder line up properly with the gate?

 

Yes it does.

 

Well, at least on the two I have.

[Chili Ron]

Howdy,

I suggest some of you folks might just try the three screw Ruger or Ruger flattop guns.

There are non collector type Rugers that are very original, not clunky and work

the original way.

Just don't let anyone tell you a worn Ruger with no box is worth top dollar.....it aint.

That 80% Blackhawk is a $400 not a $1200 gun.

Even just try one and see what I mean.

Best

CR

 

[vietvet1968]

Not only the Uberti cattleman but the model p which I just bought also had the retractable firing pin until I replaced it with the old model hammer and trigger. I was told that all Uberti revolvers will come like this soon.

[Silver Sam, SASS #34718L]

Well, I had one here that belonged to a buddy & I took it apart just to see just how it worked.

Are there people in this world that could appreciate this design.... Yes.

Personally... I wouldn't give you 10 cents for one.

 

IMHO, Its really Sad how some Lawyers keep screwing up Good Things.

[vietvet1968]

Plus 1 on that..

[Warden Callaway]

And there are at least two good pair of Uberti Cattleman in nearly new condition at great prices in the Classified going unsold.

[John Henry Quick]

2 hours ago, Catgut Cav said:

Yes it does.

 

Well, at least on the two I have.

 

Cool - the one thing I hated about my OMV was the cylinder not lining up.

 

[vietvet1968]

14 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

And there are at least two good pair of Uberti Cattleman in nearly new condition at great prices in the Classified going unsold.

Ha, I wonder why!

[Nickel City Dude]

Personally I like the idea of the floating firing pin.  It makes them safer when I load all 6 chambers for cowboy reenacting.

[John Henry Quick]

7 hours ago, Nickel City Dude said:

Personally I like the idea of the floating firing pin.  It makes them safer when I load all 6 chambers for cowboy reenacting.

 

The majority of the people poo-pooing them have never even laid eyes on one.  I'll reserve judgement until I hear about reliability from actual owners - one guy saying he doesn't like the looks of one after taking it apart is hardly reliability data...

 

[Silver Sam, SASS #34718L]

11 hours ago, JohnHenryQuick said:

 

The majority of the people poo-pooing them have never even laid eyes on one.  I'll reserve judgement until I hear about reliability from actual owners - one guy saying he doesn't like the looks of one after taking it apart is hardly reliability data...

 

 

You are correct,

But I can assure you when a design replaces a simple firing pin with a series of levers, ramps, pins and springs.

You will have the potential for Lots of problems.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

Here's my thoughts.  I would certainly rather have a standard hammer/firing pin like the original Colt design.  So changing a Model P to the new style doesn't thrill me.  But what about the standard Cattleman?  That hammer already had (for a lot of years now) a "hammer-block" below the firing pin, with internal linkage down to the safety notch.  You can't see the block with the hammer down, but you can still see the small screw on top of the hammer and the slot in the rear of the hammer.  Not too many people were complaining about that (or they didn't like it they could just buy a Model P).  So what is happening to that gun is that you are trading a visible safety for an invisible safety.  Aesthetically, the gun is being improved.  Except for that 3-click thing.  Still don't like that.  

[vietvet1968]

So far the pietta hasn't gone that route , quite honestly I bought the model p not knowing about the retractable firing pin, bought it sight unseen. That was my mistake thinking that the gun wasn't like the cattleman . The other reason was that I was told it had the removable cylinder bushing which it does have. So to get it back to 4 clicks and eliminating the retractable hammer I replaced with the old model trigger and hammer for an additional $120. This is all my fault for not doing any homework.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

1 hour ago, vietvet1968 said:

... This is all my fault for not doing any homework.

 

Not necessarily.  Uberti kind of snuck this in on us.  Yeah, there were a few announcements here and there on the web, but it wasn't a big rollout with a bunch of fanfare.  Nevertheless, I'm glad you ended up with what you want.

 

Plus, you've answered the question some will have as to what it takes to go back to "authentic."  So thanks for that.

[Putnam Under]

I purchased a pair of engraved Cattleman ll revolvers online not knowing about the new firing pin. As soon as the 10 day waiting period was over they went straight to the gunsmith for action jobs. After  I got them back I noticed that there were only 3 clicks. What the heck? So I started looking into the new firing pin. I don't reember where I  read it but the article stated that Uberti has been refining this design for the last 10 years. At this point I  already have them and I'm willimg to give them the benifit of the doubt. As far as not having 4 clicks, if I feel the need for it I have plenty of them that do. I  also have Rugers and it's never bothered me that they load differently.

 

Time will tell if they hold up or not, I  hope the do. Because they sure are purdy!