Pinks and Greens?

[DocWard]

https://www.armytimes.com/articles/army-uniform-board-to-consider-bringing-back-iconic-pinks-and-greens-uniform

 

Quote

What's old is new again as Sergeant Major of the Army Dan Dailey pushes ahead on bringing back a vintage uniform. 

The Army's top enlisted soldier is heading to the next uniform board meeting, armed with the results of an exclusive Army Times survey, to make the case for bringing back an iconic, World War II era uniform for everyday business wear, he told Army Times in an interview this week.

 

[Cat Brules]

47 minutes ago, DocWard said:

https://www.armytimes.com/articles/army-uniform-board-to-consider-bringing-back-iconic-pinks-and-greens-uniform

 

 

 

My dad wore the Pinks and Greens uniform during his US Army career.

 

My dad served in WWII,  Korea and Vietnam Nam.

 

 

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

The first 2 years of High School ROTC we wore OD trousers and Ike jackets.  Senior year and all through college we wore pink and greens. I'd like to see them come back complete with the "suntan" shirts and black neckties and black low qauters shined to a mirror finish.  (YAY Corfm!!!   )

 

Anything beats the last two or three iterations of Army uniforms... and those stupid berets on everyone regardless of MOS or duty asignment.

[Pat Riot]

2 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

Anything beats the last two or three iterations of Army uniforms... and those stupid berets on everyone regardless of MOS or duty asignmen

Forty, I know what you mean. These new Navy uniforms are about as stupid looking as well. I am surprised the Ameobas in charge haven't also mandated the fluffy French rag as well.

 

The blue camo BDUs are about the dumbest &%$#ing thing I have seen yet. WTH does anyone need blue camo for?...and for that matter WTH do you need camo for at all on a ship or a shore station? Now I hear they re dropping the blue camo for green....Why? I'd  say what I really think but the plethora of cuss words would get me banned...

 

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Military fashion designers are a special breed.

 

We haven't had a decent uniform since 1945,

except for the Marines and their Dress Blues.

 

The Army's Kepi was as bad as the beret.

[Utah Bob #35998]

6 minutes ago, Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 said:

Military fashion designers are a special breed.

 

We haven't had a decent uniform since 1945,

except for the Marines and their Dress Blues.

 

The Army's Kepi was as bad as the beret.

Kepi??

[Utah Bob #35998]

The reason officially from the Navy regarding their "camo" blues is that they don't show shipboard dirt and grease as well. Although everybody knows that the real reason is that all the other branches had cool camo and so the Navy wanted some too.

 

I'm all in favor of a new uniform for the Army but it won't happen, they just switched to the blue ASU and aren't about to incur a big expense. The SMA's idea will no doubt be rejected. The WWII type was a great uniform. The Brits have made very few changes to theirs in 70 years. Why fix an unbroken item?

 

I would like to see a change in Army policy back to requiring a class A or B uniform while off post unless on duty. Honestly, when's the last time you aaw a soldier travelling in anything but the combat uniform? Looks like they just crawled out of a hole. I know young, just-discharged fells who say they wore their dress uniform maybe twice in 6 years. The Marines understand the pride in wearing the uniform and the esprit de corps it generates. The Army has forgotten that. 

 

And don't get me started on the berets. 

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

2 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Forty, I know what you mean. These new Navy uniforms are about as stupid looking as well. I am surprised the Ameobas in charge haven't also mandated the fluffy French rag as well.

 

The blue camo BDUs are about the dumbest &%$#ing thing I have seen yet. WTH does anyone need blue camo for?...and for that matter WTH do you need camo for at all on a ship or a shore station? Now I hear they re dropping the blue camo for green....Why? I'd  say what I really think but the plethora of cuss words would get me banned...

 

When I DON'T want to be invisible is when I end up overboard.

 

Remembe rthe parochial school uniforms that Elmo Zumwalt forced on the Navy... about the same time they allowed officers to wear beards.  Some Ensigns and JGs looked like little kids dressed up for Halowe'en.

[Pat Riot]

Just now, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

When I DON'T want to be invisible is when I end up overboard.

 

Remembe rthe parochial school uniforms that Elmo Zumwalt forced on the Navy... about the same time they allowed officers to wear beards.  Some Ensigns and JGs looked like little kids dressed up for Halowe'en.

I do. When I joined the Navy we called them "Milk Man" or "Ice Cream Man" outfits. The year I joined Crackerjacks were re-authorized. I bought myself Crackerjacks for summer and winter dress and literally burned my issued uniforms.

 

This was the uniform I thought Sailors should be wearing and I wore it proudly. Hell, I even became a Gunner's Mate...just like this guy 

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

2 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Kepi??

 I realize that a certain branch was exempt from wearing them,

But THE ALMOST BROWN BOOT ARMY looked like a platoon of blockheads

with a cake box on our head.  Made those lean, mean machines look silly.

BUT, we did have the garrison hat, with braid in color.

[Utah Bob #35998]

50 minutes ago, Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 said:

 I realize that a certain branch was exempt from wearing them,

But THE ALMOST BROWN BOOT ARMY looked like a platoon of blockheads

with a cake box on our head.  Made those lean, mean machines look silly.

BUT, we did have the garrison hat, with braid in color.

Not exempt at all. Especially stateside, until after'61. 

I think Castro bought all the Ridgeway caps on the surplus market.

And they weren't a branch ubtil 84. Just a nuisance to the Big Army.

[Utah Bob #35998]

1 hour ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I do. When I joined the Navy we called them "Milk Man" or "Ice Cream Man" outfits. The year I joined Crackerjacks were re-authorized. I bought myself Crackerjacks for summer and winter dress and literally burned my issued uniforms.

 

This was the uniform I thought Sailors should be wearing and I wore it proudly. Hell, I even became a Gunner's Mate...just like this guy 

Friend of mine from Iowa joined the Navy because he liked that uniform. By the time he got to boot camp Zumwalt had changed them to the other thing. Then when he got out, they changed them back.

 

[Pat Riot]

1 hour ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Friend of mine from Iowa joined the Navy because he liked that uniform. By the time he got to boot camp Zumwalt had changed them to the other thing. Then when he got out, they changed them back.

 

Wow...that sux!...A lot!

 

I remember in Boot when they fitted us for our new uniforms and this guy handed me a white milkman shirt and some black pants and that silly milkman hat I had a sick feeling in my stomach that I had somehow been had. Once I got out of my first school, basic electricity and electronics training, I was permitted to buy and wear Crackerjacks. I did so as quickly as my E-1 pay would allow. I gave up beer for a month. 

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

4 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I do. When I joined the Navy we called them "Milk Man" or "Ice Cream Man" outfits. The year I joined Crackerjacks were re-authorized. I bought myself Crackerjacks for summer and winter dress and literally burned my issued uniforms.

 

This was the uniform I thought Sailors should be wearing and I wore it proudly. Hell, I even became a Gunner's Mate...just like this guy 

I think that just screamed NAVY, in blue or white.  Wouldn't mind seeing that come back, especially if they brought back the Dixie cup covers, too.

[Pat Riot]

18 hours ago, DocWard said:

https://www.armytimes.com/articles/army-uniform-board-to-consider-bringing-back-iconic-pinks-and-greens-uniform

 

 

Hey Doc,

Sorry I got your thread hi-jacked. 

 

I like that older Army uniform style. Just as I like the old Navy uniforms. At least the Marines have kept up their traditions. 

 

7 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

I think that just screamed NAVY, in blue or white.  Wouldn't mind seeing that come back, especially if they brought back the Dixie cup covers, too.

Forty, they still have somewhat of a rendition of the Crackerjacks and the Dixie Cups. But it's an older uniform style. I looks pretty sharp in formation...they could do with out the black ascot and the spats. It almost looks "European" to me.

 

 

 

This "Service Uniform" makes 'em look like Marines. While I do like the Marine uniform, Marines aren't Sailors and Sailors aren't Marines.

 

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

From a civilian's viewpoint, there is a lot to be said for a spit polished, seam pressed, tailored uniform when any branch of service is in public for non-combat purposes.

 

Camo may be "cool", but it looks sloppy when used as daily wear.

 

A little more pride in their appearance would seem appropriate.

 

LL

 

 

[DocWard]

58 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Hey Doc,

Sorry I got your thread hi-jacked. 

 

I like that older Army uniform style. Just as I like the old Navy uniforms. At least the Marines have kept up their traditions. 

 

 

I consider the ASU an improvement over the old "Greens," and was hopeful I would be issued the uniform before retirement. It was authorized, but hadn't made it into our supply chain. My only complaint was what I call the Design by Committee aspect of the placement of all the items on the uniform itself, with no ability to put unit or combat patches on the shoulders. The older Pinks and Greens seem a great improvement. Save the Blues for dress occasions, the older uniform for "office wear" and the combat uniform for everything else.

 

38 minutes ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

From a civilian's viewpoint, there is a lot to be said for a spit polished, seam pressed, tailored uniform when any branch of service is in public for non-combat purposes.

 

Camo may be "cool", but it looks sloppy when used as daily wear.

 

A little more pride in their appearance would seem appropriate.

 

LL

 

 

I think the reason for the adoption of the camouflage uniform for everyday wear has as much to do with soldiers not wanting to deal with getting every piece of the puzzle "just right" for daily wear. From measuring placement of collar insignia, to making sure awards and name were properly placed, it took a bit of time to do correctly. The result, when worn on the Class A Green uniform, which was uncomfortable and unattractive to most, made one wonder why they should bother with the effort.

 

Back in the days of the BDU, you could tell the soldiers who took pride in their appearance from those who didn't. Boots would be shined to a high gloss and the uniform would be ironed carefully to present a neat appearance. Otherwise, a soldier would look like the uniform was pulled from the bottom of a duffle bag. The appearance of the ACU with it's no-iron instructions and suede textured boots really dumbed that down.

[Utah Bob #35998]

1 hour ago, DocWard said:

 

I consider the ASU an improvement over the old "Greens," and was hopeful I would be issued the uniform before retirement. It was authorized, but hadn't made it into our supply chain. My only complaint was what I call the Design by Committee aspect of the placement of all the items on the uniform itself, with no ability to put unit or combat patches on the shoulders. The older Pinks and Greens seem a great improvement. Save the Blues for dress occasions, the older uniform for "office wear" and the combat uniform for everything else.

As for me, I  much prefer the old greens (except the overseas cap). The ASU is simply too formal. And jump boots look stupid with it.

I think the reason for the adoption of the camouflage uniform for everyday wear has as much to do with soldiers not wanting to deal with getting every piece of the puzzle "just right" for daily wear. From measuring placement of collar insignia, to making sure awards and name were properly placed, it took a bit of time to do correctly. The result, when worn on the Class A Green uniform, which was uncomfortable and unattractive to most, made one wonder why they should bother with the effort.

 

The combat uniform is a result of the war on terror. It wasn't authorized for everyday wear off post until after 9/11. The big brains in the Puzzle Palace thought it would signify our readiness to fight, sort of like requiring all active duty personnel in WWII to be in uniform at all times, even on leave. Dumb idea if you ask me.

 

[Guest Grass Range #51406]

Who is paying for all these changes?

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

That picture of the swab jockies with rifles makes me reflect on watching them march in some sorta fashion.

Hope they shoot better than they march, sez an OLD grunt.

[DocWard]

18 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

As for me, I  much prefer the old greens (except the overseas cap). The ASU is simply too formal. And jump boots look stupid with it.

I simply hated the green Class A. Especially the light green polyester shirt, and the jacket that practically had to be custom ordered and tailored to get it to fit properly, even for someone with an average build. Not easily done on an enlisted salary, but I know a few who did just that. While I do believe the ASU is too formal, it is an improvement in my opinion. Jump boots look good with anything, Bob.

 

The combat uniform is a result of the war on terror. It wasn't authorized for everyday wear off post until after 9/11. The big brains in the Puzzle Palace thought it would signify our readiness to fight, sort of like requiring all active duty personnel in WWII to be in uniform at all times, even on leave. Dumb idea if you ask me.

 

I was thinking it had been approved prior to 9/11. My memory may be playing tricks on me, but I could've sworn I travelled in BDUs prior to. But heck, my memory has been faulty before. Thanks.

 

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

5 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Hey Doc,

Sorry I got your thread hi-jacked. 

 

I like that older Army uniform style. Just as I like the old Navy uniforms. At least the Marines have kept up their traditions. 

 

Forty, they still have somewhat of a rendition of the Crackerjacks and the Dixie Cups. But it's an older uniform style. I looks pretty sharp in formation...they could do with out the black ascot and the spats. It almost looks "European" to me.

 

 

 

This "Service Uniform" makes 'em look like Marines. While I do like the Marine uniform, Marines aren't Sailors and Sailors aren't Marines.

Any kind of ascot bib is an abomination to my way of thinking.  The spats have  their place, but I detested them when I was on several drill teams.  They look okay but are awkward and difficult, and a four sqaure, diamond studded bitch to keep clean.

 

[Duffield, SASS #23454]

21 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

The combat uniform is a result of the war on terror. It wasn't authorized for everyday wear off post until after 9/11. The big brains in the Puzzle Palace thought it would signify our readiness to fight, sort of like requiring all active duty personnel in WWII to be in uniform at all times, even on leave. Dumb idea if you ask me.

 

AMEN!

[Pat Riot]

Something else I forgot to mention, speaking of "Puzzle Palace" bull sh.....anyway, see all the medals those E-2's and E-3's have? They are medals for accomplishments like, getting through boot camp, and being good little boys and girls. Everyone bumps to E-2 or E-3 at the end of Boot as well, depending upon rating.

 

The Navy is now a "snowflake" zone of self esteem building and Kum-freakin'-baya...

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

11 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Something else I forgot to mention, speaking of "Puzzle Palace" bull sh.....anyway, see all the medals those E-2's and E-3's have? They are medals for accomplishments like, getting through boot camp, and being good little boys and girls. Everyone bumps to E-2 or E-3 at the end of Boot as well, depending upon rating.

 

The Navy is now a "snowflake" zone of self esteem building and Kum-freakin'-baya...

We used to call them "I was there" ribbons.  I have a bunch of decorations but only two I'm really proud of: USMC Good Conduct  and Bronze Star.

[DocWard]

3 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Something else I forgot to mention, speaking of "Puzzle Palace" bull sh.....anyway, see all the medals those E-2's and E-3's have? They are medals for accomplishments like, getting through boot camp, and being good little boys and girls. Everyone bumps to E-2 or E-3 at the end of Boot as well, depending upon rating.

 

The Navy is now a "snowflake" zone of self esteem building and Kum-freakin'-baya...

 

The Army has had the Army Service Ribbon since 1981. It indicates a person has completed their initial MOS producing training. I don't have a problem with that. The National Defense Service Medal, on the other hand...

[Utah Bob #35998]

1 hour ago, DocWard said:

 

The Army has had the Army Service Ribbon since 1981. It indicates a person has completed their initial MOS producing training. I don't have a problem with that. The National Defense Service Medal, on the other hand...

I don't have a problem with the NDSM. Service members who were in between Sep 9, 1939 and Dec 7, 1942 were awarded the American Defense Service Medal and we were not engaged in a conflict...yet.

 

The National Defense Service Medal is authorized for the following time periods:

Korean War June 27, 1950July 27, 1954

Vietnam War January 1, 1961August 14, 1974

Persian Gulf War August 2, 1990November 30, 1995

Global War on Terrorism   September 11, 2001Present day

 

I do have a problem with ribbons for weapons qualification, schools, career development, volunteerism, longevity etc etc.

Enough of the fruit salad already. Take a tip from the Brits.

[DocWard]

9 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

I don't have a problem with the NDSM. Service members who were in between Sep 9, 1939 and Dec 7, 1942 were awarded the American Defense Service Medal and we were not engaged in a conflict...yet.

 

The National Defense Service Medal is authorized for the following time periods:

Korean War June 27, 1950July 27, 1954

Vietnam War January 1, 1961August 14, 1974

Persian Gulf War August 2, 1990November 30, 1995

Global War on Terrorism   September 11, 2001Present day

 

I do have a problem with ribbons for weapons qualification, schools, career development, volunteerism, longevity etc etc.

Enough of the fruit salad already. Take a tip from the Brits.

 

I didn't do a very good job of my previous post. I was attempting to point out the Army has had similar things to the Navy medals that Pat Riot was pointing out. Instead, I made it seem I have a problem with the NDSM. I don't, and don't have a problem with any of them, personally. But if there were ever a "participation trophy" for the Army, it seems to me it is the NDSM.

[Trailrider #896]

Don't know much about present day Air Force uniforms. The "Class A" seems similar to what we wore back in the mid-late '60's, but I never had much chance to wear them, spending most of the time in "fatigues", Uncle Sam's green jeans.  When I did wear the Class A uniforms, the ribbons included just the NDSM, an Expert Pistol ribbon, and the Presidential Unit Citation ribbon with the bronze frame around it. The latter was authorized for personnel assigned to the unit, but ONLY while so-assigned!  As far as I was concerned the only thing that meant a damn was the "pocket rocket" missile badge pinned to the left breast pocket. At that time, the missile badge was awarded to launch officers as soon as they were deemed qualified for alert status in the Minuteman Launch Control Facilities. (Titan and Atlas troops had them, too, but I'm not sure when they were awarded.)  For us missile maintenance troops, we had to be "running in the field" for 18 months before we got ours!  That was in spite of the fact that we were keeping the Strategic Alert lights on the launch panels green for on-alert ICBM's!  Otherwise, unit patches were permitted to be sewn on our fatigue jackets and M65 field jackets. In addition, we wore the large SAC patches, plus our name tags and Air Force ribbons above the pockets. Those were white letters on blue cloth backgrounds.

Ah, well...

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

I have not been able to find clear definition on the web, almost good on a rotc site which said that it was to provide some contrast to the uniforms of enlisted men.  So what is it really?  And why are people so hot about it?

[W. D. Pickett]

On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 5:19 PM, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Forty, I know what you mean. These new Navy uniforms are about as stupid looking as well. I am surprised the Ameobas in charge haven't also mandated the fluffy French rag as well.

 

The blue camo BDUs are about the dumbest &%$#ing thing I have seen yet. WTH does anyone need blue camo for?...and for that matter WTH do you need camo for at all on a ship or a shore station? Now I hear they re dropping the blue camo for green....Why? I'd  say what I really think but the plethora of cuss words would get me banned...

 

 

P.R.,

 

Blue camo is for when you fall in the sea so that an enemy can not see you (bad side is neither can those looking to rescue you)....

 

W.D.

[Pat Riot]

51 minutes ago, W. D. Pickett said:

 

P.R.,

 

Blue camo is for when you fall in the sea so that an enemy can not see you (bad side is neither can those looking to rescue you)....

 

W.D.

Isn't that silly? At least with the light blue shirts in the Dungaree Uniform you had a chance  at being spotted.  Of course at sea we did wear Dark blue ball caps with our ship's insignia. 

 

[Duffield, SASS #23454]

When I look at ribbons,  the NDSM makes a convenient book mark to separate  feel good awards and awards by a Foreign Government (and there aren't many of those) from earned awards.

I am proudest of my purple heart, air medals and aviation crewman's wings. 

 

Duffield

[Charlie Plasters, SASS#60943]

On 5/14/2017 at 10:23 PM, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

I think that just screamed NAVY, in blue or white.  Wouldn't mind seeing that come back, especially if they brought back the Dixie cup covers, too.

and the thirteen buttons?

[Two Irons]

I served as an infantry officer from 96-05 with 1 deployment to Iraq.  With the current optempo these soldiers are under, the last thing we cared about was dress uniforms.  As a company commander we would much rather devote the time available to combat training, equipment readiness, and then giving our young soldiers time with their families.  I understand ceremony is a big part of the history of the armed forces, but these young soldiers are either in iraq/afghanistan or in the field training to go there.  I had soldiers that arrived at my company 3 weeks before we deployed to iraq that just came off 1 year tours in Korea.  My buddy that relieved me in Iraq had a 3 year old son and hadn't spent 1 birthday home  with his son.  I believe that is why you see less of an emphasis on wearing dress uniforms everywhere like the old days and just focusing on war fighting and not adding extra, in MY opinion, task to an already over taxed army.  Best dressed does not kill the bad guy.   Also look at the best soldiers in the world, SOF, no two look alike.  Even regiment guys have long hair and non matching uniforms.  Haha im sure there are old CSM's that are getting chest pain thinking about that, but it doesnt matter, at least from my foxhole it didnt.  I would rather a soldier be disciplined with weapons maint than if his jump wings were on straight.