Operation Jade Helm

[Apache Hawk 60642]

Don't forget the war of Northern Agression.

 

 

BIG + 1

[Apache Hawk 60642]

I don't have grave fears from my country. I have grave fears about what will happen when the military has finally had enough of the leaders of the country.....much as the rest of us have.

 

 

True enough there Cypress Sun.

[Backslidin']

I wonder if any of those expressing fear of a US military take over of Texas served in any branch of our armed forces. Many, many years ago I served for six years and about the last thing I fear is a military take over of Texas or any other state. Hopefully, if it ever does happen they'll go after California first.

[Boon Doggle]

They won't have to. The liberals already have.

[Dirty Redd]

Question ? If you look at the mission logo closely you will see the outline of a wooden shoe dead center , what does that represent ?

[Utah Bob #35998]

Question ? If you look at the mission logo closely you will see the outline of a wooden shoe dead center , what does that represent ?

It is a French sabot. French dissidents were said to have thrown sabots into machinery to break it. It is the root word in sabotage. Sabotage is one of the aspects of unconventional warfare.

[Frio Kid, SASS #31915]

We do this aaaaallllll the time. Dont worry about it. Now, be a good boy and run along home.

 

The governor of EVERY state should always know exactly what is going on in their state, it is called leadership. We have seen so little of it over the years many have forgot what it looks like.

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

Always interesting, the range of.....opinion here.

[Capt. Billy]

We look at the purging that we've had of our combat experienced military leaders in the recent past, and their replacement with inexperienced generals...the Marine Corps, the Air Force, and the Army top brass has all been replaced by our current leader in the White House with those more in agreement with his politics. When you look at the current dumbing down of our education system over the last 50 years, is it any wonder that we cannot expect some of those in the military to be familiar with the laws prohibiting US troops from law enforcement within the United States. We have an administration trying to circumvent congress with gun and ammunition bans, using the IRS in an attempt to prohibit first amendment rights, selling guns to the Mexican cartels during Operation Fast & Furious, Lying to congress about NSA monitoring of personal information of US citizens, ordering ICE not to enforce immigration laws, covering up the facts about the death of a US ambassador in Benghazi, and a Secretary of State that has no idea what it means to tell the truth and holds herself above the law. Is it not unreasonable to fear that this same bunch of folks that control our government would somehow secretly set up an operation to control the citizens of this country when they protest the violation of their rights under the constitution

I'm not sure exactly what Operation Jade Helm is; but, in light of everything else that this administration has done and how little respect it has for our constitution, I do think it is wise to be aware of it and to keep a vigilant eye on what it does.

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."....not a meaningless quote.

Someone above asked if any of the people commenting here have had military experience. I was a captain in the United States Army and the CO of a Military Police company in Vietnam, so I am well familiar with what you can and can't get a soldier to do. With the right training, under the right circumstances with the right leadership, you can get a soldier to do almost anything.

 

By the way, Utah Bob, what have you got against Texas?

[Capt. Billy]

Yep, Ronald Reagan's most feared words, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

 

By the way, Utah Bob, what have you got against Texas?

 

Why don't you ask him that when you've been here awhile? I see you have 82 posts. Utah Bob has over 51,000.

[Utah Bob #35998]

 

By the way, Utah Bob, what have you got against Texas?

I have no idea where you got the idea I have anything against Texas.

I have tried to explain exactly what Jade Helm is and why I do not believe that citizens have anything to fear.

I was also an army Captain. But with Special Forces and not the Military Police so I do have some small experience in operations like this.

You are certainly free to reach your own conclusions.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Don't forget the war of Northern Agression.

Well, there was that thing where the southerners opened fire on a US military installation. That is a bit provocative I reckon.

[DocWard]

Someone above asked if any of the people commenting here have had military experience. I was a captain in the United States Army and the CO of a Military Police company in Vietnam, so I am well familiar with what you can and can't get a soldier to do. With the right training, under the right circumstances with the right leadership, you can get a soldier to do almost anything.

 

 

Well, I was just an NCO, spending the majority of my career as a medic in the National Guard at that, but I have been deployed and just retired three years ago. My observations and my opinions are thus: We have a volunteer, not a conscripted force. Those joining do so for a variety of reasons, but in my experience, they boil down to three major reasons: college money; training; and "god and country." Our soldiers tend to be relatively intelligent and motivated, as compared to many of their peers. They also tend to be more conservative in their opinions than their peers as well. As a result of voluntarily giving up many of the rights that civilians take for granted, they are often more jealous of those rights, and yes, believe it or not, willing to fight for them. It may come as some surprise, but I have had in depth conversations with any number of soldiers on the subject. Even those you might consider not the brightest seem to instinctively understand the meaning behind the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and hold those virtually sacrosanct.

 

Does the possibility for abuse exist? Of course. One can never simply become complacent, lest that lead to losing one's rights. I, personally, worry more about our para-military national law enforcement units, the FBI, DEA, BATFE and the Marshals than our military.

[Duffield, SASS #23454]

 

Well, I was just an NCO, spending the majority of my career as a medic in the National Guard at that, but I have been deployed and just retired three years ago. My observations and my opinions are thus: We have a volunteer, not a conscripted force. Those joining do so for a variety of reasons, but in my experience, they boil down to three major reasons: college money; training; and "god and country." Our soldiers tend to be relatively intelligent and motivated, as compared to many of their peers. They also tend to be more conservative in their opinions than their peers as well. As a result of voluntarily giving up many of the rights that civilians take for granted, they are often more jealous of those rights, and yes, believe it or not, willing to fight for them. It may come as some surprise, but I have had in depth conversations with any number of soldiers on the subject. Even those you might consider not the brightest seem to instinctively understand the meaning behind the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and hold those virtually sacrosanct.

 

Does the possibility for abuse exist? Of course. One can never simply become complacent, lest that lead to losing one's rights. I, personally, worry more about our para-military national law enforcement units, the FBI, DEA, BATFE and the Marshals than our military.

I experienced exactly the same thing in my 11 years as an instructor with the Army Reserve School system and the Fifth Army NCO Academy.

These young men and women love their country and respect the rights that our constitution gives each one of us.

They can use my little farm for training any time they want to.

 

I, too, worry about the para-militarization of our civilian agencies.

 

Duffield

[Trailrider #896]

Althought it was more than 70 years ago, the Imperial Japanese General Staff had no intention of actually invading the West Coast, as they feared guerrilla-warfare against them by many U.S. citizens who owned guns and knew how to use them. Not saying that an attempt to take over a state by government forces would be the same thing. But it is something for everyone to think about, includin our troops, the "head shed", etc. Just sayin'...

[Utah Bob #35998]

I have found that most people who are fearing a vast Martial Law conspiracy are going to believe it, no matter what. I have good friends who I thought were intelligent, reasonable people who are swallowing this goofy crap.

Thanks Internet for spreading paranoia. Again.

[Frio Kid, SASS #31915]

I have found that most people who are fearing a vast Martial Law conspiracy are going to believe it, no matter what. I have good friends who I thought were intelligent, reasonable people who are swallowing this goofy crap.

Thanks Internet for spreading paranoia. Again.

So, anyone who does not believe as you do, is ignorant and unreasonable? Nice, liberal, progressive stand. I personally dont believe this is a real theat, but I can understand why some people might believe their is some validity or possibility to it.

[Dusty Balz, SASS#46599]

My .02, (that is mostly likely NOT worth .02)...

 

I never served in uniform, but have spent a considerable amount of time with our service members in years past, I hold them in very high regard, and truly believe that are PATRIOTS and will follow their oath. At present, most of them I know do not hold the current CINC in high regard, but that is not part of the code, they follow orders and to the best of their ability to keep our nation secure.

 

Now, I can see the distrust in our current government, anyone with a brain can tell that "change" consists of taking American in another direction that most of us here do not agree with or want. Personally I have NO trust is the people in DC.

 

Now if you will indulge me (place foil hat on now). It is no secret that states like Utah, Texas, Arizona, Wyoming, Montana etc. DO NOT lock step with places like NYC, Chicago, SFO, and other major metro areas (adhere to the "change"), the Jade Helm exercise clearly targets Utah as "hostile territory" (Texas too). Now (stay with me here). There happens to be a large number of military forces in these locations with equipment. Now our commanders and soldiers would not enter into a hostile situation with Americans on order. However say there are a few select commanders that will follow a nefarious order for either self promotion or even financial gain.

 

What would happen IF said untrustworthy people with an agenda placed some operatives within the training exercise A.O. , on orders would attack our military in training with placed IED's and a coordinated small arms attack? I suspect our military would defend themselves and counter the attack. Our media being what they are ..."military fires on civilians" NOW. you have thousands of people that become VERY nervous and the situation becomes more volatile, look back at the Bundy Ranch, suspicion, distrust, (yes, No US military, but US agencies)

 

If I were someone that wanted to collapse America from within (either in power in America or an outside government) , Russia, N Korea, China, UN whatever, this is a perfect opportunity to cause mayhem.

 

Ok reads like a fiction story, but a bit of paranoia is not a bad thing and has kept me alive on a mre than a few occasions in the past. (okay take off foil hat now)

[Utah Bob #35998]

So, anyone who does not believe as you do, is ignorant and unreasonable? Nice, liberal, progressive stand. I personally dont believe this is a real theat, but I can understand why some people might believe their is some validity or possibility to it.

You seem to want to turn this debate personal. Liberal progressive stand huh? If you knew a bit about me you probably wouldn't say that.

Ignorant and unreasonable? You put words in my mouth.

 

Years of military exercises of this type are easily researched. No doors have been kicked in. No concentration camps have been set up. The services the military provides to the citizens are also well known. The US military is not a threat. The threat to our freedom comes from much more subtle venues.

Vigilance is good. Paranoia is not.

[Capt. Billy]

"the conspiracy so far-fetched, so totally fantastical, that it could only have come out of Texas." I thought that was your quote, Utah Bob. If I'm mistaken, I apologize.

 

I have no idea where this Operation Jade Helm is going. My last comment on this is that under the present regime, we cannot take anything for granted. Glad to have brought it into the light of day on this forum. I hope it means more people will be aware of it and, at least, keep a suspicious eye on its implementation.

 

For all you guys that have served... thank you, from the bottom of my heart.

[Utah Bob #35998]

"the conspiracy so far-fetched, so totally fantastical, that it could only have come out of Texas." I thought that was your quote, Utah Bob. If I'm mistaken, I apologize.I have no idea where this Operation Jade Helm is going. My last comment on this is that under the present regime, we cannot take anything for granted. Glad to have brought it into the light of day on this forum. I hope it means more people will be aware of it and, at least, keep a suspicious eye on its implementation.For all you guys that have served... thank you, from the bottom of my heart.

Those were not my words. That is why I posted them in quotes.

[Duffield, SASS #23454]

 

Years of military exercises of this type are easily researched. No doors have been kicked in. No concentration camps have been set up. The services the military provides to the citizens are also well known. The US military is not a threat. The threat to our freedom comes from much more subtle venues.

Vigilance is good. Paranoia is not.

Well said, Bob.

For further reading on how long these maneuvers have been going on, may I suggest: http://www.history.army.mil/html/books/070/70-41-1/CMH_Pub_70-41-1.pdf

 

Duffield

[Burt Blade, #25657]

Oh

My

God

....

 

Folks, you know all those people to whom we keep saying "Thanks for your service"? Those are the folks who are training to fight and defeat our enemies. "Jade Helm" is just one more of many, many wargames that goes with creating our world-class military. They do occasionally need to do these things in unfamiliar territory. Thus, they sometimes get out and about, all coordinated with the local folks.

 

Most of whom fall all over themselves to help out. You know, cause they maybe appreciate the folks in uniform for sacrificing so much on our behalf?

 

Sheesh. Sometimes, I fear for the sanity of my nation.

 

These are -our own troops-. The tradition of which has -liberated- the freaking world from real tyranny, and then -gone home-. Do you really think this bunch are going to -throw away- every shred of -honor and history- they possess? The whole lot of them? Really?

 

And are we assuming that this world-class butt-kicking military is going to spread their forces out over about one fifth of the USA, in mutually unsupportable pockets? You -mass- forces to attack. The adage is "hit them with your clenched fist, not poke a them with your fingers." A third year cadet in ROTC would not plan a real operation all spread out like this.

 

There are over 1000 potentially armed people to every uniform in this exercise. Do you really think the Army is so -stupid- as to not be able to count? Do you have any idea how much -live ammo- they would have to draw just to conduct an attack against -one- medium sized city to seize control? They are drawing blanks folks, and little bitty firework simulators for heavy stuff.

 

Do you perhaps consider that maybe some folks -want- you "we love our military" types to fear and mistrust the good guys? Don't freak out on these fact-free rumors. You have the brains and the means to fact-check. Please do. My big fear is that some half-wit is going to panic and shoot at someone's son, who is trying to -protect- us from -real- threats, who is going to freaking -die- over some paranoid nutjob's drivel. And who does -that- serve?

 

Be vigilant patriots. -Watch- anything the government does. But for all our sakes will you -please- put as much effort into fact-checking the nutjob fantasies, as you do for the crap spewed by politicians?

 

Folks, the Special Forces types specialize in infiltrating oppressive places, and helping the locals throw off chains of oppression, by teaching them to kick ass in clever ways. If some sinister conspiracy were planning to seize control, I think Texas is the last place on earth that they would send the SF types. They would be on their way to wargames in new Zealand or Antarctica, not Texas!

 

And if said conspiracy really exists, and I am completely wrong, then the idiots are about to throw Brer Rabbit in the damn briar patch. Pass the popcorn. I wanna watch this one.

[DocWard]

You seem to want to turn this debate personal. Liberal progressive stand huh? If you knew a bit about me you probably wouldn't say that.

 

It's too late, Bob, the jig is up. The word is out. You're really a lib. You make McGovern look conservative, and Bernie Sanders is to your right. You can admit it now.

[Sedalia Dave]

Oh

My

God

....

 

Folks, you know all those people to whom we keep saying "Thanks for your service"? Those are the folks who are training to fight and defeat our enemies. "Jade Helm" is just one more of many, many wargames that goes with creating our world-class military. They do occasionally need to do these things in unfamiliar territory. Thus, they sometimes get out and about, all coordinated with the local folks.

 

Most of whom fall all over themselves to help out. You know, cause they maybe appreciate the folks in uniform for sacrificing so much on our behalf?

 

Sheesh. Sometimes, I fear for the sanity of my nation.

 

These are -our own troops-. The tradition of which has -liberated- the freaking world from real tyranny, and then -gone home-. Do you really think this bunch are going to -throw away- every shred of -honor and history- they possess? The whole lot of them? Really?

 

And are we assuming that this world-class butt-kicking military is going to spread their forces out over about one fifth of the USA, in mutually unsupportable pockets? You -mass- forces to attack. The adage is "hit them with your clenched fist, not poke a them with your fingers." A third year cadet in ROTC would not plan a real operation all spread out like this.

 

There are over 1000 potentially armed people to every uniform in this exercise. Do you really think the Army is so -stupid- as to not be able to count? Do you have any idea how much -live ammo- they would have to draw just to conduct an attack against -one- medium sized city to seize control? They are drawing blanks folks, and little bitty firework simulators for heavy stuff.

 

Do you perhaps consider that maybe some folks -want- you "we love our military" types to fear and mistrust the good guys? Don't freak out on these fact-free rumors. You have the brains and the means to fact-check. Please do. My big fear is that some half-wit is going to panic and shoot at someone's son, who is trying to -protect- us from -real- threats, who is going to freaking -die- over some paranoid nutjob's drivel. And who does -that- serve?

 

Be vigilant patriots. -Watch- anything the government does. But for all our sakes will you -please- put as much effort into fact-checking the nutjob fantasies, as you do for the crap spewed by politicians?

 

Folks, the Special Forces types specialize in infiltrating oppressive places, and helping the locals throw off chains of oppression, by teaching them to kick ass in clever ways. If some sinister conspiracy were planning to seize control, I think Texas is the last place on earth that they would send the SF types. They would be on their way to wargames in new Zealand or Antarctica, not Texas!

 

And if said conspiracy really exists, and I am completely wrong, then the idiots are about to throw Brer Rabbit in the damn briar patch. Pass the popcorn. I wanna watch this one.

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[Chantry]

So, anyone who does not believe as you do, is ignorant and unreasonable? Nice, liberal, progressive stand. I personally dont believe this is a real theat, but I can understand why some people might believe their is some validity or possibility to it.

 

That is NOT what he said. The problem when you get into conspiracy theory territory is that facts become irrelevant, no matter what fact you present to a person who believes a conspiracy theory will be ignored, rationalized away or twisted around to support the conspiracy theory.

And yes, the idea that Jade Helm is a precursor to martial law in Texas and other states in the Southwest is a conspiracy theory.

I'm certainly no fan of the current President, but the idea of him declaring martial law in Texas and elsewhere and thinking the other states and the military would go along with it borders on the absurd.

[Frio Kid, SASS #31915]

You seem to want to turn this debate personal. Liberal progressive stand huh? If you knew a bit about me you probably wouldn't say that.

Ignorant and unreasonable? You put words in my mouth.

 

Years of military exercises of this type are easily researched. No doors have been kicked in. No concentration camps have been set up. The services the military provides to the citizens are also well known. The US military is not a threat. The threat to our freedom comes from much more subtle venues.

Vigilance is good. Paranoia is not.

Not trying to make it personal. If you claim to have friends that you thought were intelligent and reasonable and now somehow they are not - what are they? Seems to be the typical argument from the left - if you dont agree with me - You must be stupid or crazy.

 

You have a guy in the White House who has demonstrated his complete disregard for the constitution and rule of law. A congress that will not stand up to him. Do really think he would not order somethig like this if he thought he could get away with it? Now, I dont think he believes he could get away with it nor do I believe the majority of our military would obey such an order - but some would. We would have some serious problems until things got "sorted out". So, I dont believe anyone questioning or getting a little nervous over this is less intelligent or reasonable than they were before. We dont need to take lessons from the left on name calling and such to those who dont believe the same as we do.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Obviously I am not communicating as well as I'd hoped, so there's not much point in continuing.

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

Obviously I am not communicating as well as I'd hoped, so there's not much point in continuing.

 

So goes it sometimes, UB. I gave my dos centavos in the first few minutes after this thread opened, then saw where it was heading. Oh well.

 

On a lighter note, your "Pinnnng!" thread got me to thinking about the Garand that's been sitting in the safe for too long. Heading to my parents' farm this weekend with the gun and a can of hardball. As long as I remember to keep the thumb out of the way, it should be a memorable time.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Obviously I am not communicating as well as I'd hoped, so there's not much point in continuing.

 

So goes it sometimes, UB. I gave my dos centavos in the first few minutes after this thread opened, then saw where it was heading. Oh well.

 

On a lighter note, your "Pinnnng!" thread got me to thinking about the Garand that's been sitting in the safe for too long. Heading to my parents' farm this weekend with the gun and a can of hardball. As long as I remember to keep the thumb out of the way, it should be a memorable time.

Take some Band Aids along just in case, Charlie.

[Apache Hawk 60642]

You seem to want to turn this debate personal. Liberal progressive stand huh? If you knew a bit about me you probably wouldn't say that.

Ignorant and unreasonable? You put words in my mouth.

 

Years of military exercises of this type are easily researched. No doors have been kicked in. No concentration camps have been set up. The services the military provides to the citizens are also well known. The US military is not a threat. The threat to our freedom comes from much more subtle venues.

Vigilance is good. Paranoia is not.

 

While I agree to disagree with Utah Bob on this, I can tell you that I have known him for years and "liberal & progressive" as far as what you say goes,...He is not.

[DocWard]

I have found that most people who are fearing a vast Martial Law conspiracy are going to believe it, no matter what. I have good friends who I thought were intelligent, reasonable people who are swallowing this goofy crap.

Thanks Internet for spreading paranoia. Again.

 

 

So, anyone who does not believe as you do, is ignorant and unreasonable? Nice, liberal, progressive stand. I personally dont believe this is a real theat, but I can understand why some people might believe their is some validity or possibility to it.

 

 

Not trying to make it personal. If you claim to have friends that you thought were intelligent and reasonable and now somehow they are not - what are they? Seems to be the typical argument from the left - if you dont agree with me - You must be stupid or crazy.

 

 

If I had more time, I would play "spot the fallacy." As it is, I will simply say that UB commented on his frustrations that others he knows and respects are falling for the hoopla (italicized). From there, it was taken far further than what Bob ever said or intended, creating a generalization out of a specific statement (bolded). That generalization could very well be read as a personal attack, which is continued in the second post. Interestingly, fallacious arguments meant to embarrass and silence critics by use of hyperbole and exaggeration (the underlined statements), tend to be a favorite tool of the left as well.

 

It has been my experience since being here for some years that Utah Bob is almost always the voice of reason. In fact, I cannot recall a time where he did not speak from a position of intelligent, thoughtful consideration, often coupled with personal experience. In other words, I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

[Capt. Billy]

I don't think Utah Bob is being unreasonable. I do think that, knowing this president, and knowing the antagonistic rhetoric that has been directed toward law enforcement in general, creating an animosity in many urban communities, that an environment could easily be created where this administration could use that situation as an excuse to install martial law. There are those In the public eye that are using recent police shootings to stir racial unrest to levels not seen since the 60's. The Michael Brown shooting in Ferguson, MO. and the death of an arrested black man in Baltimore, Md. have both resulted in civil disturbances and riots that if promoted nationally by those with an ulterior motive could, in fact, give cause to a martial law declaration.

My purpose for starting this thread was not to cry fire where there is no smoke but to simply make readers aware of a military operation on US soil, that some find suspicious and may require some vigilance on our part to insure that it remains only a training exercise. No one here is paranoid, no one is seeing shadows behind every corner. Just bringing a military operation on US soil into the light of day.

 

By the way, Red Gauntlet, I don't think I have enough years left in me to reach 51,000 post on this or any other forum. Just way more to do with my time.

 

Later guys... be careful of the cool aid you drink!

[DocWard]

I don't think Utah Bob is being unreasonable. I do think that, knowing this president, and knowing the antagonistic rhetoric that has been directed toward law enforcement in general, creating an animosity in many urban communities, that an environment could easily be created where this administration could use that situation as an excuse to install martial law. There are those In the public eye that are using recent police shootings to stir racial unrest to levels not seen since the 60's. The Michael Brown shooting in Ferguson, MO. and the death of an arrested black man in Baltimore, Md. have both resulted in civil disturbances and riots that if promoted nationally by those with an ulterior motive could, in fact, give cause to a martial law declaration.

My purpose for starting this thread was not to cry fire where there is no smoke but to simply make readers aware of a military operation on US soil, that some find suspicious and may require some vigilance on our part to insure that it remains only a training exercise. No one here is paranoid, no one is seeing shadows behind every corner. Just bringing a military operation on US soil into the light of day.

 

By the way, Red Gauntlet, I don't think I have enough years left in me to reach 51,000 post on this or any other forum. Just way more to do with my time.

 

Later guys... be careful of the cool aid you drink!

 

Thanks for the clarification. While I admit to being at least as concerned about the administration and the things that are currently going on with our government, I have less concerns about our military than I do about the federal law enforcement organizations.