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captqueeze

Cast Lead Bullets +

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Since I cast my own bullets for my 45LC; 45ACP; 38/357, and others I thought since it's a little cool out in the shop I'd warm things up a bit by Powder Coating the projectiles. Can you guess the color I use for my Zombie loads? The bullets pictured below I did today (took 25 minutes start to finish) for my 45APC. From this day forward they will be known as my "Cherry Bombs". Also has the added benefit of performing as the lube as well. No mess on my hands or inside the Dies.

 

redbullets4_zps095f3f90.jpg

 

Redbullets_zps186970b4.jpg

 

Capt

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Looks like too much work for me. In 25 minutes I can lube/size 500 bullets, by hand, with my Star. Even my BP lubes bullets don't make a mess in my reloaders. But to each his own.

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Have you shot them?

 

It'd be interesting to know what you found that like? Looks like they'd gum up an auto after not too many shots. And what the residues did to accuracy would be an important detail. Along with finding out what cleanup amounted to.

 

They do look cute however. Any real value to the process?

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Look like good zombie fodder to me.

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To answer a few questions: Springfield Slim; I notice you have a large number of posts which would indicate a older fella and not subject to change, "to each his own". BTW, I have a Star Lube/sizer and I run these through there for final size.

To Litl Red; you have some interesting questions. A little background - this type of coated bullet has been successfully used for a number of years in Australia and specifically ALL of the shooting competitions over there. They DO NOT gum up an auto, as that's what they are primarily used in and clean up, at least for me is one and at the most two passes with a boresnake. They have at least three distinct advantages: NO MESS on my hands, none. NO MESS on my Dillon 650 and best of all NO MESS inside the Dies which as all of us know WILL effect the OAL over time. And one of the advantages is NO SMOKING GUN on the firing line, or markedly reduced smoking.

In conclusion, what's not to like. I bet if you put a pencil to it, it's also cheaper to lube with this method than conventional lube. Did I mention, NO BARREL LEADING. That's of course dependent on speed.

Everything being equal, this is my new method of lubing and they're just flat out Purdy..

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Not sure what on older fella is. Compared to most SASS members I am relatively young at 57. But over the years I have learned the value of time, and I don't see this process saving me any time. Sounds like you still have to size them, so all you have done in my mind is add at least one extra step so the bullet looks "pretty". I spent my time developing a lube that doesn't make a mess, nor gum up my dies, nor lead my barrels. All from off the shelf components, so I really doubt it costs more than your painted coating. As to the smoke, I kinda like it, probably why I shoot BP. My wife and kids shoot smokeless and they don't seem bothered by what little smoke my bullets produce. Not sure how much time you spend over at castboolits.gunloads.com, but there are a couple of threads going about how some guys using your type of coating have experienced excessive wear on their barrel. May be a problem, maybe not. I'll let the young whippersnappers like you experiment and maybe ruin their guns before I embrace your new technology bullets. As for not liking change, I have a couple of autos at home with custom made barrels in calibers that were never commercially produced. I used to use my gun in my work so I wanted the most effective ammo available. After much trial and error I finally got my .357 125 grain bullet to go 1700fps, out of a 5" barrel gun. And it was still the most reliable auto I ever owned. Loud as hell, but it worked very well. Just because something is new doesn't mean it is better. If all we SASS guys wanted was new, there would be no SASS. And what is you SASS number again? I can't quite make it out in your heading.

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Gotta wonder if powder coating is pushing the envelope on the intent of the rule book on ammunition?

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Gotta wonder if powder coating is pushing the envelope on the intent of the rule book on ammunition?

What?? Could you clarify that for me. As far as I know the rules for ammunition are based pretty much on power factor, just like other shooting sports, I could be wrong. Here's how I read the rule(s):

 

 

AMMUNITION
The minimum standard for center-fire ammunition used in all smokeless categories at State, Regional,
National, International and World Championship Competitions is not less than a minimum power factor
of 60 and no velocity may be less than 400 fps. The maximum velocity standard for revolvers is 1000 fps.
The maximum velocity standard for rifles is 1400 fps. Pocket pistols, derringers, and long-range rifles are
exempt from the power factor and velocity requirements.
Power factors are simply calculated by multiplying the bullet weight times the velocity and then the
resulting number is divided by 1000. Some examples are as follows:
100 gr bullet traveling at 600 fps has a power factor of 60: (100x600)/1000=60.00
77 gr bullet traveling at 800 fps has a power factor of 61.6 (77x800)/1000=61.60
200 gr bullet traveling at 400 fps has a power factor of 80 (200x400)/1000=80.00
I don't see anything about bullet lube, which is what PC paint provides.
Show me what you're referring to, please.
Capt

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Not sure what on older fella is. Compared to most SASS members I am relatively young at 57. But over the years I have learned the value of time, and I don't see this process saving me any time. Sounds like you still have to size them, so all you have done in my mind is add at least one extra step so the bullet looks "pretty". I spent my time developing a lube that doesn't make a mess, nor gum up my dies, nor lead my barrels. All from off the shelf components, so I really doubt it costs more than your painted coating. As to the smoke, I kinda like it, probably why I shoot BP. My wife and kids shoot smokeless and they don't seem bothered by what little smoke my bullets produce. Not sure how much time you spend over at castboolits.gunloads.com, but there are a couple of threads going about how some guys using your type of coating have experienced excessive wear on their barrel. May be a problem, maybe not. I'll let the young whippersnappers like you experiment and maybe ruin their guns before I embrace your new technology bullets. As for not liking change, I have a couple of autos at home with custom made barrels in calibers that were never commercially produced. I used to use my gun in my work so I wanted the most effective ammo available. After much trial and error I finally got my .357 125 grain bullet to go 1700fps, out of a 5" barrel gun. And it was still the most reliable auto I ever owned. Loud as hell, but it worked very well. Just because something is new doesn't mean it is better. If all we SASS guys wanted was new, there would be no SASS. And what is you SASS number again? I can't quite make it out in your heading.

 

When I used the phrase "older fella" I used it in the context of "one who is unwilling to change" or "one set in his/her ways". BTW, they don't have to be sized, I choose to size so they will work in my bullet feeders. I'm considerably more senior than yourself, so no disrespect meant (I'm a young 68). This is simply a means to an end which in my opinion has several advantages over traditional lube(s) and with the added feature of being purdy.

Capt

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I've tried not sizing bullets, and mostly it works but sometimes it don't. I prefer to work with known tolerances. Being 68 maybe you have more time to experiment. With 2 younger kids, 10 and 12, I don't have that luxury right now. Why would the 2-3 thou difference matter to your bullet feeder?

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Sounds like a win, win, win kind of thing.

 

Where do most people buy the powder? What do you ask for?

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Oh yeah... and how much would be a good amount to buy for a decent test?

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Right now I have been getting my powder from Harbor Freight. HF's price now (on sale) is $3.99/lb which will coat approx. 3,000 bullets. Another place that has been mentioned is Powder by the Pound. It's about 3 times the cost, but more colors to choose from and, from what I read, it applies smoother/easier and bakes at a somewhat lower temp. As soon as I use up what I have on hand, I'll be buying mine from Powder by the Pound. They have a Lime Green that will make my Zombie ammo outstanding.

Capt

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I've tried not sizing bullets, and mostly it works but sometimes it don't. I prefer to work with known tolerances. Being 68 maybe you have more time to experiment. With 2 younger kids, 10 and 12, I don't have that luxury right now. Why would the 2-3 thou difference matter to your bullet feeder?

Wow! a 10 & 12 y.o. You must of started late. At any rate they will give you the benefit of "keeping you young". I definitely have more time to experiment and that's just what I would call it. I like the way they shoot though, very clean. On the Bullet Feeder Dies, mine are set up as a set of Collets, two per Die. My 45ACP for example the largest bullet that will drop through there is .451 - standard jacketed sized bullets. So, what I have done is to modify the Die's Collet to allow a .453 bullet to be dropped. I size to .452 on my Star and everything works easy, peasy. I really like the no mess feel of loading with coated cast, just like feeding jacketed for next to no cost.

Capt

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How much does the PC add to the bullet's O.D.?

What type of PC 'mix', are you using?

LG

Depending on how thick you apply the coating, anywhere from .002 - .003". I'm not actually using a "mix" as of yet, still just one color at a time. But, I am going to try a "mix" of Red and White in a 2/3 to 1/3 ratio to see if I can make some Pink bullets for my wife's little .380.

BTW, the O.D. of the bullet after PC'ing is a non issue since we all have bullet sizers, right?

Capt

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Hello All,

 

I personally like the color bullets and think someone should market them. I too am 57 but I have kids ranging from 22 to 33. I did not start late or too early, I just started. Again the look of the bullets look great, a nice Irish green would really be something. Best of luck to you and yours.

 

Buffalo Bill

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Depending on how thick you apply the coating, anywhere from .002 - .003". I'm not actually using a "mix" as of yet, still just one color at a time. But, I am going to try a "mix" of Red and White in a 2/3 to 1/3 ratio to see if I can make some Pink bullets for my wife's little .380.

BTW, the O.D. of the bullet after PC'ing is a non issue since we all have bullet sizers, right?

Capt

When I ask about 'mix', I wasn't talk'n about color. There's thermoplastic and thermoset mixes. Wondered which you were using.

What do the bullets look like after sizing?

LG

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The very top picture is after sizing. As far as thermoplastic or thermoset , I haven't a clue. It's HF PC paint, that's all I know.

Capt

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Hello All,

 

I personally like the color bullets and think someone should market them. I too am 57 but I have kids ranging from 22 to 33. I did not start late or too early, I just started. Again the look of the bullets look great, a nice Irish green would really be something. Best of luck to you and yours.

 

Buffalo Bill

 

There are businesses that sell these types of coated bullets. Bayou Bullets sells a like product, except they use Hi Tek coatings.

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Guest Sheriff Pack Wolf, SASS #31917

There are no Zombies.......there are ammo shortages. Protect the Zombies.

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Well I guess the good thing is that most of the Zombies live in large metropolitan areas such as D.C. and State Capitols.

As far as ammo shortages, they don't exist if you roll your own.

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The Hi-Tek bullet coating is allowed in SASS. As the rules say moly coat or equiv. They aren't plated

I use them pretty much all the time now

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I bought some Hi Tek but didn't use it, decided to go with the PC paint. So, PC paint should be good to go as far as SASS rules since Hi Tek is paint thinned with chemicals.

Capt

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I must be missing something. Are bullets being sold?? If not great topic for the wire!:)

Regards,

Ringer

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I must be missing something. Are bullets being sold?? If not great topic for the wire! :)

Regards,

Ringer

You're not missing anything Lead Ringer, I'm kind of a Newb here and simply got it in the wrong section. If a Mod. would like to move this thread, please do.

Thanks;

Capt

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Gotta wonder if powder coating is pushing the envelope on the intent of the rule book on ammunition?

 

 

 

What?? Could you clarify that for me. As far as I know the rules for ammunition are based pretty much on power factor, just like other shooting sports, I could be wrong. Here's how I read the rule(s):

 

 

AMMUNITION
The minimum standard for center-fire ammunition used in all smokeless categories at State, Regional,
National, International and World Championship Competitions is not less than a minimum power factor
of 60 and no velocity may be less than 400 fps. The maximum velocity standard for revolvers is 1000 fps.
The maximum velocity standard for rifles is 1400 fps. Pocket pistols, derringers, and long-range rifles are
exempt from the power factor and velocity requirements.
Power factors are simply calculated by multiplying the bullet weight times the velocity and then the
resulting number is divided by 1000. Some examples are as follows:
100 gr bullet traveling at 600 fps has a power factor of 60: (100x600)/1000=60.00
77 gr bullet traveling at 800 fps has a power factor of 61.6 (77x800)/1000=61.60
200 gr bullet traveling at 400 fps has a power factor of 80 (200x400)/1000=80.00
I don't see anything about bullet lube, which is what PC paint provides.
Show me what you're referring to, please.
Capt

 

 

You may want to read further in the section on "Ammunition"; I think this is what Captain Clark was referring to:

 

"• Revolver and rifle ammunition may not be jacketed, semi-jacketed, plated, gas checked, or copper washed. It must be all lead. Molydisulfide coated bullets or equivalent are acceptable."

 

 

In my opinion, your coating would not be acceptable match ammo for SASS competition. As match director, I would not allow it to be used.

 

JSS

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You may want to read further in the section on "Ammunition"; I think this is what Captain Clark was referring to:

 

"• Revolver and rifle ammunition may not be jacketed, semi-jacketed, plated, gas checked, or copper washed. It must be all lead. Molydisulfide coated bullets or equivalent are acceptable."

 

 

In my opinion, your coating would not be acceptable match ammo for SASS competition. As match director, I would not allow it to be used.

 

JJS

 

You have to go the the latest version of the handbook - version 19 - it came out on the 14th. Polymer coated bullets are now allowed.

 

"- Revolver and rifle ammunition may not be jacketed, semi-jacketed, plated, gas checked, or
copper washed. It must be all lead. Molydisulfide, polymer coated bullets, or equivalent
are acceptable."

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You have to go the the latest version of the handbook - version 19 - it came out on the 14th. Polymer coated bullets are now allowed.

 

"- Revolver and rifle ammunition may not be jacketed, semi-jacketed, plated, gas checked, or
copper washed. It must be all lead. Molydisulfide, polymer coated bullets, or equivalent
are acceptable."

 

Thank you for the information, just downloaded the latest rule book.

 

I will want some clarification on what “polymer coatings” SASS has accepted. Then, I want to see how these coated bullets react with steel targets before I will allow them to be used at our club.

 

The shooter is responsible for their ammo and how it reacts when shooting steel targets. I do not want to expose match participants to harm. If polymer coated bullets react in a negative form that could expose posse members and spectators to an increase risk or if increased target damage could occur, I won’t allow the ammunition at matches.

 

JSS

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You're not missing anything Lead Ringer, I'm kind of a Newb here and simply got it in the wrong section. If a Mod. would like to move this thread, please do.

Thanks

 

Capt

I'm no Moderator :) I don't know who or how to move something??

Welcome to the wire!

Regards,

Ringer

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I'm no Moderator :) I don't know who or how to move something??

Welcome to the wire!

Regards,

Ringer

I read where you need to "Report" the thread to a Moderator for moving to another forum page. There are too many posts for them to catch everything, reporting helps them maintain control of the forums. A request has been submitted to move this over to the SASS Wire.

JSS

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Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

Capt

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And those of us who've never seen PCed bullets thank you.

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I do know that various types of paint can dry so that they still have the ability to set even harder after a few days. This could become a sealant that could raise chamber pressures quite a bit. Military loadings often use a mouth sealant, which is factored in to how the load is developed.

 

Until I saw some pressure chamber results, between normal lubing and using Powder Coated slugs, I would be very hesitant to allow it to be shot in our club's matches. Why add something that is not even discussed in loading manuals to the mix that is reloading? Your are treading on new ground, but so far have not given much proof that it is safe under most possible ways in which it might be used.

 

Good luck, GJ

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