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captqueeze

Cast Lead Bullets +

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My question to you is this: Do you mean Metallic coated bullets (those that are plated with say Copper) are illegal to use, or are you saying cast Lead bullets with a Metallic paint (Epoxy) coating are illegal? I agree NO metallic coated (such as plated) should be used, however, "painted" coated Lead bullets that appear Metallic should be of no concern and allowed because based on the Moh's Scale of hardness is of course less than that of Metallic coated bullets. Just looking for a clarification.

Captsqueeze,

 

Reread my post. I indicated that metallic painted bullets were subject to inspection as they may look like something other than a painted bullet. Yes, copper jacketed bullets are illegal. In other words, one cannot tell what they are with a quick glance so they may be inspected in whatever manner the MD deems acceptable.

 

Is there anyone else out there who did not understand my post? If so I may think more kindly about this question.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

 

PS Lumpy, no problems with your posts, this time. :o;)

 

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That's funny right there!!

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I really don't need to reread your post, I thought it was cogent and I agree, just a FYI for my benefit.

BTW, I go by Capt Queeze, not Capt Squeeze. LOL!!

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Captsqueeze,

 

 

Is there anyone else out there who did not understand my post?...

 

You made it perfectly clear.

 

Time for the men to shut their pie holes, me thinks.

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I got a batch loaded and went to the range (behind my business) and promptly unloaded them. Shot them in my Ruger Blackhawk (45APC cylinder) and was very pleased with the way they shot and performed on target. I guarantee they shoot at MOP (minute of pie plate) @ 25 yards. Shot between 25 and 30 rounds and my trigger finger was starting to get numb. I was actually trying 3 different bullet forms of which I only had PC'd one. I have decided on using Green Dot for my loads (cause that's all I have) and set the bullets out to 1.289". Very small amount of recoil and overall a very tame load. Here's a picture of them in a loading tray prior to releasing the Lead back to the wild.

 

 

 

Capt

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In conclusion, what's not to like.

There's no smoke. Smoke enhances the experience.

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I agree DDD, but only with BP.

Capt

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WHAT-No pink? :lol:

LG

 

I'm working on the Pink, but I kinda wanted to reserve that for my wife's .380.

Capt

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I agree DDD, but only with BP.

Capt

I would be curious to see yours shot with bp

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I would be curious as well, I just don't have anything BP.

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kinda off the original point of the thread, but does anyone know the cut off date to submit an entry into the Oklahoma Shoot @ Woolaroc ?

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:FlagAm: :FlagAm: :FlagAm: :FlagAm: :FlagAm:

 

So if I understand it rightly...There's no lube added to the lube groove and they are sized AFTER the powder coating?

How hot do you bake them?

 

A buddy in the car club has powder coating set up he lets me use for parts coating.

So I may try making up a few for a combat match, but not a SASS match just yet.

 

Mustang

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First of all, I think we've settled the question as to whether PC'd bullets are approved for SASS Matches, they are. Now as to your question concerning temperature setting and baking time. I'm afraid I can't give you a definite answer, because different paints (powder coat paint) bake at different settings. However, as a quasi guide, I am using HF (Harbor Freight) PC and the directions state to set the temp at 400 degrees F. and bake for 20 minutes. Some say 15 minutes @ 350. I have good results with the 400/20 min. Those that use PC from Powder by the Pound tend to get excellent results @ 350 for 10 - 15 minutes. That being said, there are a couple of tests to establish what will work with the PC you use. One, do the "smash" test. Pretty straight forward, smash one of the cooked bullets with a two pound hammer. If the coating stays on without flaking it's good to go. And the second test is to use some Acetone on a rag and wipe the cooked bullet. If any color comes off you didn't bake it long enough.

Jump in Pard, it's a hoot!!

Capt

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:FlagAm: :FlagAm: :FlagAm: :FlagAm: :FlagAm:

 

Well, I ain't sure the SASS-legal part is settled.

 

I just wondered how hot you heat the Harbor Freight stuff.

I think the automotive stuff we've used says 450 F to 475 F.

But I have to check again. This system we use may be a bit hot for bullets(?).

 

Mustang

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Check the latest version (version #19) to get a answer about the legality of PC'd bullets in SASS . As far as the 450-475 F, depends on the alloy. I know I had an entire tray of coated bullets turn into puddles of Lead, that's when I got a temp thermometer for my toaster oven and found out the dial wasn't accurate.

Give it a try, nothing to lose, right?

Capt

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Just my two cents. Lets say a club belongs to SASS. This does not mean that this club has to follow all of SASS's rule to the letter. Say a club or a Range Officer says that rule (A) which SASS says is okay. Is not exceptable at their club. Then that is their right. We all have shot at different clubs all over America. And we run into rules all over that at one club is not exceptable at another club. Then we make our own chooses. We can either adapt or choose not shoot at that club. Now we have options and those options might be to either help educate, or not to educate. My solution to the problem might have been to offer some bullets that are PC to the party that has questions in regards to the PC of the bullets and let them study them. So they might be able learn what effects these PC bullets might have on his or her's club and let them come to better understanding of what they are looking at.

 

But I to have had questions about PC bullets. But, if I would have ever of acquired any PC bullets I would have first asked the club I was shooting at if they had any problems with me shooting them. Again I would live with thier ruling.

I would like to mention that I have seen pictures of PC bullets that have been shot. I have noticed that the coating stays in

tack. So does this make the bullet better in the aspect that it does not fragment as bad in which the participants don't receive the dreaded splatter as bad? Does this make the bullet harder and cause faster deterioration over time of the expensive targets?

And yes you may be right but remember he is right in saying no at this time as well.

 

Deacon Stone

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You're probably right Deacon, I wouldn't argue the point. However, I would argue that the shooters that shoot their own alloy cast bullets could possibly be doing as much or more damage to the targets depending on the Brinell Test. So if it's target damage Range Officers are concerned with they SHOULD check everyones bullets by finding the BHN of ALL bullets shot at their Targets.

I see you're at Hoyt KS. You going to the spring shoot at Woolaroc?

 

Capt

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Captqueeze

 

Sorry I find myself a little confused by what you are asking?

I have shot at all but one Kansas sight in my short 9 yr stent here and with Gods guidance. My wife and I are planing on rectifying that this year by shooting the State match there this year. I have never heard of this shoot you speak of. Woolaroc? And what are the Dates? Would you be more in lighting? I always love a new shoot. And while I'm at it. May I ask where you reside Sir. For I'm not sure if I have ever been blessed with the opportunity of meeting and shooting with you. If I have then I have forgotten and do apologize to you Sir.

 

Have a Blessed Day

Deacon Stone

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You're probably right Deacon, I wouldn't argue the point. However, I would argue that the shooters that shoot their own alloy cast bullets could possibly be doing as much or more damage to the targets depending on the Brinell Test. So if it's target damage Range Officers are concerned with they SHOULD check everyones bullets by finding the BHN of ALL bullets shot at their Targets.

I see you're at Hoyt KS. You going to the spring shoot at Woolaroc?

 

Capt

Capt. Queeze,

 

Yes, anyone's ammo could cause damage. No, "all bullets" are not likely to be tested, only suspect ammo. If you are singled out for inspection, you brought it on yourself by using something so different from the historical norm. The same would be true if your ammo seemed to be excessively hard and appeared to be damaging the targets.

 

SASS-affiliated clubs are allowed to enforce whatever range rules they deem appropriate. We may think they "SHOULD" do something. However, that doesn't mean that they MUST do something.

 

Be aware that arguing with range officials could earn you a Match DQ for belligerence. If you do not like how you are treated, it is your prerogative to leave and not return.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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Allie; What I was referring to was precisely the BHN of the Cast Lead each individual might use. I use a BHN of 7-8, because I cast my own and control the alloy closely. Most alloy Cast Bullets, even Cowboy bullets, are harder.

My reference to SHOULD in the post you cited was to show how unreasonable it would be to specifically check BHN on everyone's ammo to make sure the loads wouldn't harm a target.

 

Anyone who thinks that the method I use to "lube" my loads is wrong or harmful to targets, other shooters, or spectators is just uninformed. What I have described isn't new technology, far from it. It's internationally accepted and for the life of me, especially in California I don't understand why it isn't mandatory.

 

I think I saw a protest mechanism allowed in disputing R.O.'s rulings. That would be the way to handle disputes, not belligerence.

Your last sentence has me puzzled. Are you asking me to leave and not return, or are you referring to a R.O.'s determination?

 

Regards,

 

Capt

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Captqueeze. Just wondering if you shoot SASS or have you ever been to one?

 

Either way is fine. Just wondering.

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I'm signed up for my first one this spring. Eager to give it a go. Thanks for asking.

Capt

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...

I think I saw a protest mechanism allowed in disputing R.O.'s rulings. That would be the way to handle disputes, not belligerence.

Your last sentence has me puzzled. Are you asking me to leave and not return, or are you referring to a R.O.'s determination?

...

Hello Capt.,

 

Yes, there is an appeal process. Either the MD, Range Master, or a group/jury make the determination. A fee may be charged to lodge a protest and may or may not be refunded if the decision is in the shooter's favor.

 

I was referring to behavior at a match. If I was asking you to leave the Wire, you would either be placed on Preview (all posts must be approved by a moderator) or Banned for a period of time or indefinately. You would have no doubt about it if that happened.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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I see. Thank you for the clarification.

 

Regards;

 

Capt

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Don't look period correct to me, so I wouldn't be interested, but that is just personal preference. And what exactly are 45APC bullets, short for All Painted Coating? You've mentioned them at least twice but I saw no explanation. :)

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OOPS!! You got me there Slim. Gonna hafta file down the old eye teeth so I can see what I'm sayin". :D Of course I meant to say .45ACP's, although APC's were pretty good pain killers back in the day.

Capt

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Then there are some of us that say .45 ACP is the gun that shoots .45 Auto ammo.

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Oh, you guys.. :blink:

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Capt.

Please don't take this the wrong way. You say you have never shot a SASS match? You ask me of a match that I have never even heard of and ask if I'm going. You ask this rather large family of SASS shooters to accept something that true may be SASS legal. But in my travels have not even seen on a firing line. To except it our else. If you where me, or I was in your shoes say, I would be at this time a lot more worried about coming to the loading table and doing everything right there, then moving over to the stage when the timer operator (T/O) as we call them calls you up and doing everything that he/she may ask of you and hitting my targets in the right order, then retrieving my guns and walking to the unloading table and unloading all of my guns in a manner in which is safe for you and the unloading officer. Rather,then worrying about what color my bullets are. This group of people are some of the best people I have ever been around. Almost all would be happy to give you there shirt off there back. And you wouldn't even have to ask. But as with the Indians smoke signals travels fast and you can rub a lot of shooter wrong really fast. Give SASS a chance before you start trying to introduce new things.

 

And sir may I ask again where are you from and what shoot are talking about? Woolaroc? never heard of it. Or is there a reason you didn't answer my questions earlier.

 

Deacon Stone

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Come on folks. He is here to enlighten all us dumb hillbilly's to the new ways. :ph34r:

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Hey Deacon; you know where Oklahoma is situated? Just jump on US 75 and follow it straight to Bartlesville OK. Take a little side step to the west and south and you're at Woolaroc. You won't find a prettier place to have a SASS match than right there. My brother is coming from KCMO . I guarantee you'll enjoy the setting.

Capt

 

PS. Deacon, I'm not trying to change anybodies minds about "jellybean" bullets, but I bet you'll see them in a match or so this year.

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Enlightenment is a wonderful thing, don't you think? :D

Capt

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They are around already at some SASS matches.

 

Seen some of the green epoxy ones the other day.

 

I own a bullet casting company. So I keep up with some of this stuff.

Have had a few customers ask me about it already.

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