Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I normally use whatever lead I have on hand when I cast for my .38 and 44-40 with no problems. I have tried to cast .45 acp using a lee 230gr tumble lube mold. The bullets were coming out a bit undersize and the tech at Lee suggested casting with the lead hotter than I was and adding some tin. My question is how much tin to add to a 20 lb pot. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Sgt H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 You might want to buy The "Lyman Cast Bullet Manual". This will answer your many questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Slim SASS #24733 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 What size exactly was "a bit undersize"? What is the bore size of the barrel, didi you slug it? And most importantly, why did it matter? Were the bullets inaccurate or leading the barrel? We really need more info to try and give you any advice that will actually help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger #3720LR Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Hard cast Bullet alloy is 92% lead, 6% Antimony & 2% tin by weight. Tin is added to make the lead flow better and fill in sharper corners. Antimony is added to make the alloy harder. ---------- Linotype standard alloy is 84% lead, 12% Antimony & 4% tin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 You might want to buy The "Lyman Cast Bullet Manual". This will answer your many questions. This. And then you can answer our questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backshootin beauford mcgee Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 yep, I like to cast the .45's in the Lee mold hot, keeps them looking nice and they preform well. I cast them soft in .45acp as it is a low velocity round and if they are 'a bit undersized' after tumble lubing they 'bump up' or expand when fired and are accurate enough for wild bunch use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409 Posted December 28, 2013 Author Share Posted December 28, 2013 They are coming out about .450 and since they are undersize they are not taking a good crimp and able to be pushed into the case...I am using a lee factory crimp die...The tech said the higher heat and tin would make the lead flow better and the tin would help it fill out the mold better...so back to the original question how much tin to add to a 20 pound pot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex M Rugers #6621 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Start with adding one pound , see how it works for you. If you are not happy with that , add a little more. You shouldn't need to go any further than a 15-1 ratio to get what you seek. Good luck , Rex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Bob1 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Sgt, Increase your lead temperature and either pre-heat your mold on your pot as your lead is melting or use a hot plate. DO NOT use a propane torch on the mold. From an earlier conversation you indicated that you are using "range lead". I feel you have a temperature issue not lack of tin. See you Friday...................LB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Well, range lead is pretty unpredictable in the amount of tin it has. If it is a pretty soft alloy, it IS going to need at least more temperature on the mold and on the pot. And maybe some tin to help with the fillout. You should be casting hot enough that you are getting all the fine grooves and ridges (lands) filled sharply on the cast bullet (and get it up to 0.452 or 0.453" diameter as dropped), but not frosting the surface of the bullet heavily. A lead thermometer would really be useful! If you cast at between 720 F and 750 F, even the soft-end of range lead should come out of aluminum molds well filled. Lee molds always seem to me to want to run at a hotter metal temperature than other molds. I'm sure the tech you talked to understands that, too. But, some tin will not hurt. A pound of tin would be way to much to waste on a 20 pound pot, however. A pound of tin is over $10 anymore. If you have a 20 pound pot, and if you want 1% additional lead, which would probably be a good starting point, you need to add 20 * 0.01, or 0.2 pounds (that would be about 3 ounces of pure tin). But, tin is not very available in pure sticks; much easier to find some 50-50 or 60-40 solder sticks. If you have 50-50 solder and want to add 3 ounces of tin, it takes 6 ounces of solder, since that solder is 50% tin. We just covered this same problem for another pard in the last two days! See this thread: http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=216393&hl= Also, make sure the mold cavities are clean. I clean with some isopropyl alcohol or acetone or even hot soapy water on an old toothbrush. Let any moisture DRY before casting, as there is some water in rubbing alcohol. Preheat the mold as folks above have said - a thrift store hot plate works well. Get your lead up to 750 F to start. And, the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook really helps as you learn the ART of casting bullets, and the SCIENCE behind it. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captqueeze Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Lots of information here http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm and if that's not enough, try here http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php . Between those two references you should find your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger #3720LR Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 20 pounds 1% = .2 pounds 2% = .4 pounds 3% = .6 pounds 4% = .8 pounds --------------- Range lead will have plenty of tin. Bring your pot temp up to 700 to 750 degrees. Do not exceed 825 degrees. Lead starts gassing and this is the toxic vapor you don't want to breath. Bring your mold temp up to between 350 and 400 degrees. Careful with aluminum molds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litl Red Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Tin is retailing now just under $20/pound. In the very small proportions we need to keep the wrinkles away, it won't do much at all to change the cast diameter. Changing the blend of components in order to alter the diameter really isn't the best way to get a $20 tool to work the way it's supposed to. Actually controlling your blend isn't easy to do unless you start with known metals and nowadays that means buying fresh, something that's not exactly cheaply done. If you are thinking about buying commercial stuff, specifically tin, there is a really good tin for our use that's sold in small hunks almost exactly the best size for 20lb pots. http://www.rotometals.com/Tin-Ingot-s/27.htm For our very mild SASS loads, stick with the softest alloy you can conjure up. Hard slugs are more apt to gas cut since they don't obturate. As for what adding tin and what it does for diameter............... I use the "short pieces of tin wire" sold by rotometals and a 20lb pot. I also have a stockpile of pure lead (from a stained glass mfg) and keep up with BHN, weight, and diameters of the output of my molds. The wire pieces are between 1.5 and 2 ounces each. Whenever bullets start dropping with wrinkles, one piece of "wire" usually solves the problem. Most of my stockpile of ingots are either pure lead, or 1:40 blend of lead/tin. Topping off the pot with 1:40 stops the wrinkles too. No way would I waste money on tin rich bullets just to fix your problem. All my cowboy loads are based on Lee molds. All of them throw 452+ with a 1:40 alloy (no antimony). All of it obturates great which is what cures leading problems before they begin with most starting loads, and really matters with the even milder loads a lot of SASS experts use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 I normally use whatever lead I have on hand when I cast for my .38 and 44-40 with no problems. I have tried to cast .45 acp using a lee 230gr tumble lube mold. The bullets were coming out a bit undersize and the tech at Lee suggested casting with the lead hotter than I was and adding some tin. My question is how much tin to add to a 20 lb pot. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Sgt H LISTEN to CH!!! LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seldom Seen #16162 Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Did anyone mention about making sure the mold is hot enough also? A cool mold will throw undersize bullets until it heats up enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409 Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 Thanks for the suggestions ...I did run the pot hotter and heated up the mold more than I usually do and added some solder with tin and it looks like that solved the problem. Hochbauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOOTIN FOX Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 If changing your temp or alloy doesn't work, go over to cast booilts.com and search for beagling.And yes it is boolits. Fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger #3720LR Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Something to remember. Adding anything to lead will cause the shrinkage to be more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Thanks for the suggestions ...I did run the pot hotter and heated up the mold more than I usually do and added some solder with tin and it looks like that solved the problem. Hochbauer I do hope that solder was not acid 'cored'. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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