Plastic containers from Goex

[Mad Dog McGee]

Just bought a PLASTIC jug of Goex FFG. Notice that I didn't say CAN. With all the hoop-la about static electricity setting off black powder; why would Goex package it in plastic containers?

Is it a special plastic OR can it be that John Boy and others were right when they state that static elect. doesn't set off BP.

I've seen the test trying to set off BP with high voltage and have reached the same conclusion .

I've also never seen any proof that BP has been set off by static elect.

I wipe my Dillon R550 B plastic powder hopper down with cling free sheets before I load but now I don't even think that is necessary. I think that now it may be considered a myth.

Also does anyone know where I can the get peel off stickers of a picture of the Goex can ? I have one and would like to get more as I think that the old Goex BP cans are neat. Thanks in advance for any comments or help!

MDM

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

You have more to worry about with the gasoline sit'n in your cars tank.

They are BATFE/DOT approved containers.

Don't forget, that steel is a conductor and plastic is not.

LG

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Sad to see the traditional metal can gone BUT it's easier to get all the power out with the new plastic containers...

 

GG

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

Static-dissipative and anti-static plastic materials have been around for years. I would expect that is what is being used by Goex and others.

 

As for static not igniting BP, I beg to differ. Having been involved in minimizing static damage in the electronics industry as well as a BP shooter, I have paid close attention to various reports over the years. There have been several instances in which static was absolutely the culprit. Reloading presses were not involved in those. Two involved pouring powder out onto the ground, so the easily set-off dust cloud was probably the reason. One involved a fellow reloading from a flask at a kitchen table with a plastic tablecloth while rubbing his bare feet on the carpeted floor. One involved a fellow carrying BP in a plastic-lined wine bota.

 

There were two instances of ignition with reloading presses, but those might not have been static. One was with Pyrodex on a rock-chucker. That fellow isn't sure what caused the explosion, possibly static but he suspects a sheared grain (and yet Hodgdon says reloading Pyrodex is safe in an automatic powder dispenser). The other was reported here more recently and involved loading BP shotshells on a MEC. Pundits claim that one was probably due to a primer feed issue. While both of those episodes may not have been static, both times caused injury and should give some food for thought to those who load BP in their loading presses.

 

No need getting into explosions in BP factories, as that is a totally different environment. The point is that static episodes are rare but do occur.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

My press is hard wired to a dedicated gnd and so are all of my supplies.

Where I live is a PITA for static issues.

LG

[Yusta B.]

My press is hard wired to a dedicated gnd and so are all of my supplies.

Where I live is a PITA for static issues.

LG

I assume you also wear a conductive wrist band connected to your grounding point ????

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

Like Lump Gritz, all the presses in my shop are grounded.

The press to the bench by steel bolts.

Steel frame of bench to electrical ground at meter box.

And like Lumpy Gritz I too am in the high desert were warm and hot days with very dry air can cause static build up that will put you on your---the floor when grabbing a door knob or refrigerator door handle.

 

I have rules in my shop concerning reloading.

Whether smokeless or BP, I do not load on days where the shop door fights back as I try to enter.

I don't load on days when the powder sticks to the inside of the powder hopper and tapping on the hopper does not get it to drop.

 

What most forget is that the powder may start off in the plastic powder hopper but ends up in contact with the metal parts of the press before they get to the case.

[Seldom Seen #16162]

Mad Dog,

 

I asked this very same question when I received a order of BP earlier this year.

 

One big advantage I see with use of plastic container is it is a lot harder for enough pressure to build up to cause a explosion in a fire. The plastic should melt and burn easily avoiding the build up of pressure and temperature from a metal can.

 

Still I like the metal cans better for storage as they take less room.

[John Boy]

 

anyone know where I can the get peel off stickers of a picture of the Goex can ?

McGee - your best bet is to send Birdshot an email at Hodgdon

 

Yusta - are you zinging my friend Grits?

OK, the last I looked on the Swiss powder plastic containers, they are made in one of countries in Scandinavia. Schuetzen and now Goex uses them which I like. Cans rust and don't ask me how many of mine didn't make it through Super Storm Sandy. I'm in the process of saving all my empty plastic ones and transferring the powder from the metal cans. I take the labels on the plastics off with a hair dryer

 

I'm not concerned about static while reloading. The lowest my basement gets is 55% humidity during the winter and is higher during the other seasons

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

...and no carpet where I reload either

 

GG

[Yusta B.]

Yusta - are you zinging my friend Grits?

 

Not really - just saying that if everything is grounded but your body, you can pick up a static charge - by walking on carpet for instance- and if you then touch a grounded press etc. it will cause a static discharge. Where as if you attach a grounded wrist strap before touching anything, the charge will dissipate.

[Mean Matt McCord, SASS #24683]

For what it's worth, I have been buying various brands of BP for years in plastic containers, no problems to date.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

I assume you also wear a conductive wrist band connected to your grounding point ????

NO!

Just 'slap' the press before load'n

 

You ain't handled REAL explosives much I bet. I use to transport 1.1 class.

LG

[Yusta B.]

Haven't handled explosives but I have 20 yrs in electronics under govt. ESD guidelines. I guess that's just different circumstances.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

Well, I am glad somebody finally agrees with me about grounding the press.I too worked in the electronics industry for many years and am very aware of the nature of Electro Static Discharge. Whether or not you believe that static discharge can ignite Black Powder, grounding your press accomplishes nothing.Nada. Zero.

 

The simple fact is, every time you move, you build up a static charge on your body. You don't have to walk across the rug on a dry day, although that does accentuate it. If you are sitting at your grounded press, every time you move to grab a bullet or a shell, you generate static charge on your body. And then when you grab the press, that static charge flows very nicely from you to your grounded press. And in the milli second before you grab the handle, the charge jumps from you to the press in the form of a spark as the charge overcomes the resistance provided by the air. Every single time!!!!!

 

Now, you don't feel the spark because the charge has to build up to about 10,000 volts before you feel it. That's what you are generating when you touch the doorknob after walking across the carpet. If you feel it, it is about 10,000 volts. Yes, 10,000 volts. Very little current, but high voltage. If you don't feel it, the charge is less, maybe only a few thousand volts. But it is there nonetheless. Every single time you touch the press.

 

The ONLY way to avoid a static discharge is to ground the entire work station AND YOURSELF with a wrist strap. That is what is done in the
electronics industry, Wrist straps have a resistor in them to avoid electrocuting the wearer if he happens to touch a live wire, the resistor will
resist the flow of high current.

 

But if you ground your press, and are not wearing a wrist strap, you are kidding yourself with a false sense of security.

 

No, I do not wear a wrist strap when I load Black Powder. I do try to avoid loading on very dry days. And I know enough about Electro Static Discharge that I am not so confident that it absolutely will not ignite Black Powder, despite what some photos on the Internet show.

[Yusta B.]

"No, I do not wear a wrist strap when I load Black Powder. I do try to avoid loading on very dry days. "

 

 

+1 -
I load in NE Texas & have never seen a day without humidity - so I don't use one either. Was just suggesting to complete the grounding as Driftwood did.

[Mad Dog McGee]

Thanks for all the comments! WELL!!!!!!!!!!!! Ya done got me thinking again about SD . So if I ground the press; wear a wrist band grounding myself to the press; don't load on dry days, wipe out the powder hopper with a cling free sheet; will I still stand a chance of a SD when the powder bar swipes the BP? Or am I safe? This may drive me back to dipping! ( BP of course, not tobacco).

Just when John BOY had me convinced that I'd be ok using my RL550 for reloading! What to do , what to do?????

 

I've GOT to load BP somehow even if I have to hand load every round. I'll not give up BP !!!!!!!

 

The BOOM, the Smoke, the Smell !!! Nothing comes close ( cept napalm)!!!!

 

OK, So who loads BP on their Dillon BP ? And what Procedures work? Driftwood Johnson, I live in south Fl. by Lake Okeechobee; do you think I'll have problems even with the high humidity?

Thanks again for your help! MDM

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

MDM,

 

I ain't Driftwood, and I didn't stay in a Holliday Inn Express last night, but, you have a much better chance of being hit by lightning in Florida, or winning the lottery than a powder discharge caused by ESD. After many years of loading BP pistol rounds on my 650s, pour em full and load away.

Driftwood explained, we generate static every time we move. Reach for the powder, dip the powder, reach for the case, dump the powder, reach for a bullet, seat a bullet, repeat..... a lot. All the time generating static cling. Getting overly worried over it is wasting good energy best spent ..... Making ammo.

 

Coffinmaker

[Seldom Seen #16162]

Mad Dog,

 

Just so you won't run out of things to worry about LEE powder dippers are plastic which brings you full circle back to your original question about plastic containers.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Thanks for all the comments! WELL!!!!!!!!!!!! Ya done got me thinking again about SD . So if I ground the press; wear a wrist band grounding myself to the press; don't load on dry days, wipe out the powder hopper with a cling free sheet; will I still stand a chance of a SD when the powder bar swipes the BP? Or am I safe? This may drive me back to dipping! ( BP of course, not tobacco).

Just when John BOY had me convinced that I'd be ok using my RL550 for reloading! What to do , what to do?????

 

I've GOT to load BP somehow even if I have to hand load every round. I'll not give up BP !!!!!!!

 

The BOOM, the Smoke, the Smell !!! Nothing comes close ( cept napalm)!!!!

 

OK, So who loads BP on their Dillon BP ? And what Procedures work? Driftwood Johnson, I live in south Fl. by Lake Okeechobee; do you think I'll have problems even with the high humidity?

Thanks again for your help! MDM

I have been loading BP in my 550 for over 26 yrs. NO ISSUES.

3F Goex meters great in a Dillon PM. I load .44 mag .45-70 & .45-90 w/BP on my Dillon.

Easier to get BP these dayz the smokeless.

LG

[Mad Dog McGee]

Thanks LG, I think that I'll ground my press and slap it before I load. I'll also wipe the inside of the powder hopper with a cling free sheet . Thanks Pards for all the input. MDM

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Just so you won't run out of things to worry about LEE powder dippers

are plastic which brings you full circle back to your original question

about plastic containers.

 

 

Howdy Again

 

Static charge buildup is directly related to the amount of surface area on the static generator. Yes, Lee dippers are plastic, but they are tiny. They do not generate anywhere near as much of a static charge as, say, a MEC powder bottle, which has a much greater surface area to mass ratio.

 

For the record, I load BP with Lee plastic dippers all the time, but I am probably the last person on the planet who still refuses to put Black Powder into the plastic bottle on my MEC press.

 

I do load BP in 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44 Russian, and 44-40 on my Hornady Lock & Load AP. I use a Lyman Black Powder measure on the press when I am loading BP. It has a brass rotor so it will not create any sparks working against the iron body. I do not use the stock Hornady powder measure with Black Powder. As I have previously stated, grounding the press is useless, so I do not ground it. But I am always a bit leery of loading Black Powder in the dead of Winter when there is no humidity in the air.

[John Boy]

Gents, the question has to be asked ... Approximately what year or decade was it when the words came from manufactures of powder chargers ... Do Not Use 'My' XYZ Powder Charger with Black Powder?

I don't know the answer but metal powder chargers were not invented yesterday. In fact they were used in the 1800's for BP reloads and I have NEVER read they should not be used charging BP back then. Also look in old Ideal Handbooks at the turn of the century for metal chargers. Then there was the Lyman No 5 with no warning statements. Then came it's cousin the No 55, again no statements. No warning statement from B&M with their plastic powder tubes either. But now there is this ...

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Lyman-No-Classic-Black-Powder-Measure/740957.uts

 

I am of the opinion it all boils down to 'legal liability' and I have never read what was the 1st lawsuit that brought it about - nor have I heard or read of any current period lawsuits.

 

So do as you may but I'll continue to load BP rounds on the Dillon 550B with the pot metal charging bar and plastic (not aluminum or brass) powder container until I learn the name of that law firm who 1st invoked legal liability to their client and WHY!

BTW, I don't condone smoking while reloading but I smoke my pipe while I reload black powder too! So if you read in the newspapers that a NJ reloader incurred bodily injuries, you'll know it was me and not from a static electricity explosion

[Dubious Don #56333]

Everybody knows that...

 

In 1989 there was an explosion in a 16 inch gun turret aboard the USS Iowa. After a tedious investigation, they said it was the work of a lone sailor....uh-huh. After more investigation, they said, (They being the Navy) said that a high speed over ram of powder bags couldn't have possibly caused an explosion and of course, they conveniently ruled out a cocked bag/burning bag type incident (Which certainly could have been the case too) but the former malfunction is important to remember because such a malfunction was documented on that gun. Everyone knows that couldn't happen because the Navy is safe, you know.

 

'They' also said you couldn't set off the type of powder used by impact when it was a WELL KNOWN fact from way before that this type of powder SPARKS when it was crushed...

 

Everybody knew that too...

 

I believe it was Sandia lab or some equal of that who finally did a drop test replicating the impact of a high speed over-ram of powder...there were some really quiet Navy guys when that bag went BOOOOOMMMMM!!!

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Thanks LG, I think that I'll ground my press and slap it before I load. I'll also wipe the inside of the powder hopper with a cling free sheet . Thanks Pards for all the input. MDM

When you ground the press, there is no need to wipe the PM with anti-static towel.

LG