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rawhide teddy01

wrong full arrest

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Yes, it is legal to ship guns to yourself, however none of the "common carriers" will do it due to their company rules.

 

Staples won't accept rifles or shotguns for UPS, either, but I ship from them all the time. They don't ask what's in the package, and I don't volunteer.

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Yes, it is legal to ship guns to yourself, however none of the "common carriers" will do it due to their company rules.

 

Yup, +1

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I am always polite to cops, you can politely say, that's not your business. Yes I have said that when asked where I work, or where I'm going. When asked whether I'm carrying I don't say that I say yes, but then I'm legal to carry in Georgia.

 

No I've never seen the back seat of a cop car from the inside.

 

BTW, I'm pretty sure when you get pulled over you're NOT automatically 'under arrest' you're being detained.

 

Well you are pretty surely wrong in that belief. When you commit a traffic offense and are stopped for same then you technically have committed a crime. When you get stopped for said crime then yes you are detained but you are also technically under arrest. We don't tell folks that on traffic offenses because they would freak out. But you are. When you sign the ticket that is the same as being released on a personal recognizance bond. If you refuse to sign the ticket, then you will be formally arrested for the offense, handcuffed and transported to the hoosegow. Your car will be impounded and taken to the car jail.

 

Just because it is not commonly referred to as an arrest, a traffic stop after the commission of a traffic offense is indeed an arrest of which you the offender control the initial disposition in the court process by signing or refusing to sign the ticket. There are reasons for vehicle stops even pretext stops where it is a detention only at least initially but a traffic stop for a traffic offense is very much an arrest not merely a detention. You will remain under arrest until such time as the promise to appear is signed and the officer releases you to appear later or contact the court by such and such a date and time.

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Well you are pretty surely wrong in that belief. When you commit a traffic offense and are stopped for same then you technically have committed a crime. When you get stopped for said crime then yes you are detained but you are also technically under arrest. We don't tell folks that on traffic offenses because they would freak out. But you are. When you sign the ticket that is the same as being released on a personal recognizance bond. If you refuse to sign the ticket, then you will be formally arrested for the offense, handcuffed and transported to the hoosegow. Your car will be impounded and taken to the car jail.

 

Just because it is not commonly referred to as an arrest, a traffic stop after the commission of a traffic offense is indeed an arrest of which you the offender control the initial disposition in the court process by signing or refusing to sign the ticket. There are reasons for vehicle stops even pretext stops where it is a detention only at least initially but a traffic stop for a traffic offense is very much an arrest not merely a detention. You will remain under arrest until such time as the promise to appear is signed and the officer releases you to appear later or contact the court by such and such a date and time.

 

I didn't say pulled over for committing an offense, I said pulled over. Furthermore you're never pulled over for committing an offense, you're pulled over for allegedly committing an offense. Your guilt or innocence have not yet been determined. Unless you believe a LEO issuing a traffic citation is the equivalent of a court finding someone guilty?

 

"When, as is usually the case, the officer actually sees the violation, the stop is based on probable cause and the violator is technically under “arrest.” As a practical matter, however, traffic stops have virtually nothing in common with arrests and are subject to the same rules as investigatory detentions. Berkemer v. McCarty (1984) 468 US 420, 439, fn.29 [“(M)ost traffic stops resemble, in duration and atmosphere, the kind of brief detention authorized in [Terry v. Ohio (1968) 392 US"

 

The USSC disagrees with you.

 

So years ago when I was pulled over because my vehicle matched a description I was under arrest? When I was stopped at a DUI checkpoint in Colorado I was under arrest? For what exactly?

 

I know that some LEOs equate the leveling of a charge with conviction for that charge, but they are mistaken. That's why courts have the option of finding someone not guilty, despite the fact that some LEO somewhere obviously thinks otherwise.

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BTW LD, when you arrest someone aren't you required to read them their Miranda rights before questioning them? Do you do that on routine traffic stops?

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If I see you commit a traffic offense then I have probable cause to stop/arrest you. Now of course you will have the opportunity in court at a later date to plead not guilty if you want to take it that far. The video usually precludes most from such a futile effort. In 24 years of patrol I can count on the fingers of one hand with several digits left over the times I had to appear in traffic court. And it was so long ago I don't recall the outcome. Not that it matters, justice was served either way.

 

The Miranda warnings are not required if you are not going to interrogate the arrestee. I never deemed it necessary to question anyone for a traffic misdemeanor.

 

When you were pulled over because your vehicle matched a suspect vehicle description no you were not under arrest. Not what I said. When you were stopped at a DUI checkpoint no you were not under arrest. Not what I said. I said if I stop you for committing a traffic offense that I witness then you are under arrest until you sign the promise to appear. And no I am not required to give the Miranda warnings or say to you that you are under arrest. I already tried to explain to you that we don't use the arrest word for traffic stops because it upsets the citizenry. But technically that's what it is. If the traffic offender refuses to sign the ticket/promise to appear then that is when the officer will use the arrest word and we go to jail. It's all technicalities and semantics. But I guarantee you that the next time you are stopped for a legitimate traffic offense and you refuse to sign and declare that you can no longer be "detained" and are going to drive away, then you will be in for a rude awakening.

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BTW LD, when you arrest someone aren't you required to read them their Miranda rights before questioning them? Do you do that on routine traffic stops?

 

 

Boy do you Guys have a lot to learn about arrest and traffic stops.

Bottom line any time you are told by a cop stop, stay, do not move, stay where you are, YOU are under arrest. Don't know about thet detain stuff. Never had to do it.

Traffic stops is also a very good tool in law enforcement. Not going there.

No I do not need to read you your rights unless I ask you questions that pertain to the crime. You can blab all you want to me.

Keep believing what ya see on TV :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Well you are pretty surely wrong in that belief. When you commit a traffic offense and are stopped for same then you technically have committed a crime. When you get stopped for said crime then yes you are detained but you are also technically under arrest. We don't tell folks that on traffic offenses because they would freak out. But you are. When you sign the ticket that is the same as being released on a personal recognizance bond. If you refuse to sign the ticket, then you will be formally arrested for the offense, handcuffed and transported to the hoosegow. Your car will be impounded and taken to the car jail.

 

 

Not in the Land of Oz. A traffic violation is a Infraction which is lower than a Felony and Misdemeaner. It does not become a criminal offense. Traffic court is not a criminal court but a court of revenue. If you fail to appear a bench warrant is issued for failure to appear, not for running a red light.

 

Refusal to sign ticket is not automatically a arrestable offense. It may well depend on the local laws of the community. Small town officers in Mayberry may arrest you but larger communities may not have the same policy. In the communities I worked we would not arrest locals but would require out of towners to post a cash bond on the theory they would just ignore paying the ticket since it would be highly unlikely we would come after them.

 

Signing a ticket has nothing to do with not appearing in court. As long as the officer informs you by when the ticket must be taken of that is all that is necessary. I had violators tear up the ticket, refuse to sign or cuss me out. It didn't matter. I knew where he lived and what kind of car he drove...

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Lone Dog,

Thank you so much for explaining this sooooooooooooooooo much better than I could.

 

 

WJ

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The Miranda warnings are not required if you are not going to interrogate the arrestee. I never deemed it necessary to question anyone for a traffic misdemeanor.

 

 

Actually there are several exceptions for use of Miranda.

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Not in the Land of Oz. A traffic violation is a Infraction which is lower than a Felony and Misdemeaner. It does not become a criminal offense. Traffic court is not a criminal court but a court of revenue. If you fail to appear a bench warrant is issued for failure to appear, not for running a red light.

 

Refusal to sign ticket is not automatically a arrestable offense. It may well depend on the local laws of the community. Small town officers in Mayberry may arrest you but larger communities may not have the same policy. In the communities I worked we would not arrest locals but would require out of towners to post a cash bond on the theory they would just ignore paying the ticket since it would be highly unlikely we would come after them.

 

Signing a ticket has nothing to do with not appearing in court. As long as the officer informs you by when the ticket must be taken of that is all that is necessary. I had violators tear up the ticket, refuse to sign or cuss me out. It didn't matter. I knew where he lived and what kind of car he drove...

 

 

Well Don't come to my County and try that. You will go to jail. A traffic violation is a Misdemeaner. End of story

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Hijack Alert! :)

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Do you have a legal or other cite? You sound like you know what you're talking about, but it also sounds too good to be true. What did Reagan say, "Trust, but verify"?

 

 

Try these guys they write the rules

 

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-additional

 

Wyatt

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Well Texas ain't the land of Oz. A traffic offense is a Class C misdemeanor, the lowest category of crime but a crime still. Fastest way I can think of to go directly to jail do not pass go would be to tear up the ticket he just wrote you in front of a Texas officer.

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Lone Dog,

Thank you so much for explaining this sooooooooooooooooo much better than I could.

 

 

WJ

WJ, you might want to reconsider getting your legal rights explained to you by a cop. Spend some time (with Google it doesn't take much) researching and you'll be extremely surprised. In fact, you'll find that CBB is not only right, but spot on.

 

Last I was pulled over, I simply asked,"Is there something wrong officer?" He asked if I knew what I had done. I said, "Is there something wrong officer?" He asked for DL, Insurance, title and I asked, "Is there something wrong officer?"

 

Then he asked where I as going, and I said, "Is there something wrong officer?" At which point he asked me why my truck had SD plates and my trailer had CO plates. To which I replied, "Is there something wrong officer?"

 

He took all the papers back to his rig, came back and asked if I had anything to hide and said he wanted to take a look inside the trailer. To which I replied, "Is there something wrong officer?" All registrations and insurance is current. He asked again if I had anything to hide. I asked, "Is there something wrong officer?"

 

He finally said that he suspected that I was using the trailer for commercial purposes. "What's in it?" I said, "it's my stuff". "Am I under arrest officer?" He said, "No" but that he wasn't finished with his investigation and would need to look inside. I said "No...I can't consent to a search. Is there something wrong officer? Am I under arrest?"

 

He then told me that I would have to wait while he called in the dog to check out the truck and trailer. I said, "Am I under arrest? Am I free to go?" He went back to his unit, talked on the talkie for a while, came back- handed me my papers and we went down the highway.

 

Some of my friends were stopped in MO and others in TN and KY with trailers and they allowed inspection. They were fined for comm'l use without permit, no log book, had to spend 10 hours of sleep time/rest time and paid avg. $800 in fines each.

 

You are going to have to get a warrant to search me....period.

 

Here ya go:

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BK, apparently you had not committed a traffic offense but were the victim of a fishing expedition. Now I know this kind of thing goes on all the time but PC of some kind can usually be observed if you observe i.e. follow long enuff. Now if you are stopped in Texas for a legitimate traffic offense i.e. class C misdemeanor crime then if you want to get cute with that "is there a problem" officer business when the officer is doing his job which entails traffic enforcement but also the interdiction of illegal cargo then there is usually a dog either on board or close by. Once the dog alerts then no warrant is necessary to search. Whether you like it or don't like it.

 

Also anyone who refuses to sign the promise to appear/ticket/PR bond form will be on their way to jail and the vehicle will be inventoried/searched anyway, no "consent" necessary.

 

I would say that if you did in reality answer the officer's questions about 6 or so times with the same non answer then he showed amazing restraint and you were very lucky to go about your journey w/o additional hassle.

 

My advice is not to be purposely non-responsive to legitimate questions. Those questions are tools used to acquire knowledge to articulate reasonable suspicion that something is not legit. Especially if there is a driver and one or more passengers. When separated smugglers can never state the same story. When the answers are disparate there is your PC. Honest citizens should have no problems. Just be polite and answer the questions truthfully and the officer will soon be satisfied you are not smuggling and you will soon be on your way. Interdiction is very important in this day and age and giving the officer(s) grief when it is counterproductive to both your goals is just silly. His goal is to interdict illegal smuggling, yours is to be on your way. Why complicate and throw a wrench into the process which can be short if you are not smuggling and quite quick if you just co-operate the minimum amount of time necessary to ascertain what is what and if illegal activity is going on or not.

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BK, apparently you had not committed a traffic offense but were the victim of a fishing expedition. Now I know this kind of thing goes on all the time but PC of some kind can usually be observed if you observe i.e. follow long enuff. Now if you are stopped in Texas for a legitimate traffic offense i.e. class C misdemeanor crime then if you want to get cute with that "is there a problem" officer business when the officer is doing his job which entails traffic enforcement but also the interdiction of illegal cargo then there is usually a dog either on board or close by. Once the dog alerts then no warrant is necessary to search. Whether you like it or don't like it.

 

Also anyone who refuses to sign the promise to appear/ticket/PR bond form will be on their way to jail and the vehicle will be inventoried/searched anyway, no "consent" necessary.

 

I would say that if you did in reality answer the officer's questions about 6 or so times with the same non answer then he showed amazing restraint and you were very lucky to go about your journey w/o additional hassle.

 

My advice is not to be purposely non-responsive to legitimate questions. Those questions are tools used to acquire knowledge to articulate reasonable suspicion that something is not legit. Especially if there is a driver and one or more passengers. When separated smugglers can never state the same story. When the answers are disparate there is your PC. Honest citizens should have no problems. Just be polite and answer the questions truthfully and the officer will soon be satisfied you are not smuggling and you will soon be on your way. Interdiction is very important in this day and age and giving the officer(s) grief when it is counterproductive to both your goals is just silly. His goal is to interdict illegal smuggling, yours is to be on your way. Why complicate and throw a wrench into the process which can be short if you are not smuggling and quite quick if you just co-operate the minimum amount of time necessary to ascertain what is what and if illegal activity is going on or not.

Yep right again.

Why honest people what to be Dicks is beyond me. Cop is just trying to do his Sh$t job and you want to make it hard for him. Oh Well see ya in the cross bar hotel :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes:

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Wh When the answers are disparate there is your PC. Honest citizens should have no problems. Just be polite and answer the questions truthfully and the officer will soon be satisfied you are not smuggling and you will soon be on your way. Interdiction is very important in this day and age and giving the officer(s) grief when it is counterproductive to both your goals is just silly. His goal is to interdict illegal smuggling, yours is to be on your way. Why complicate and throw a wrench into the process which can be short if you are not smuggling and quite quick if you just co-operate the minimum amount of time necessary to ascertain what is what and if illegal activity is going on or not.

SOrry, LD... but that is just patent, spit-shined BULLS**T. Is there a problem officer? AM I under arrest? Am I free to go?

 

Unfortunately the world is full of burr-headed wannabe, jack-booted A*Hotels that think a badge gives them the right to intimidate lawful citizens who just may be trying to make a livin' by getting to work on time.

 

It's not an excuse.. it's just life. And don't get all pompous with that 'cop-hater' crap on me either. I just don't like being pushed around whether you have a 'job to do' or not. Look at the job they've done on poor Aramis! All he had to do was say, "NO" to a search. He would have taken his ticket and been gone. They were fishing and he was naive enough to think that nice man was here to help him.

 

You act like my stop would be the only one in the history of mankind that has never had a doobie and finds one in the back seat. You can take your dog for a walk wherever you choose. But, to search my vehicle you'll need a warrant.

 

Or whatever you find won't be admissable anyway and you know it. Plus, I will probably be paid by your city, county or state for false arrest.

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Thanks BK! My position on this was either misunderstood or is being distorted. I NEVER mentioned refusing to sign a ticket, nor did I say that a LEO was required to read Miranda rights. I don't know where you got the refuse to sign garbage LD, cause I never mentioned it. You keep your mouth shut, be polite, answer only questions you have a legal obligation to answer, sign and go home.

 

I said that IF someone is placed under arrest and questioned they must be read their rights or any statements may not be used against them. There are only a few, very strictly defined exceptions to this. If as LD claimed (erroneously) a traffic stop is a plain vanilla arrest, then any information obtained via non mirandized questioning will not be admissible unless the officer can prove that the information would have been obtained regardless of the suspect's statements. If it were a plain vanilla arrest then procedure would call for mirandizing prior to questioning.

 

I said that traffic stops, though technically arrests, are actually much more similar to investigatory detentions. What the LEO may ask, and the citizens duty to respond are very limited. Fishing expeditions are not allowed. BTW, I cited a USSC decision which fully supports my statement, but no one seems to want to acknowledge that. So LD, I gave you the cite, is it your position that you have a better understanding of the law than the USSC? Here, I'll paste a quote: "As a practical matter, however, traffic stops have virtually nothing in common with arrests and are subject to the same rules as investigatory detentions. Berkemer v. McCarty (1984)"

 

All this goes back to a very simple statement, why respond to LEO questions when you are not legally obligated to do so?

 

PS, not spelling misdemeanor correctly detracts somewhat from the persuasiveness of your statement Wyandot, and have you ever heard of an infraction, vs a misdemeanor vs a felony. Is a broken headlight a misdemeanor? You can be pulled over and ticketed for one.

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Don't come to my County and try that.

 

Sounds like Roscoe P. Coletrain, "MY COUNTY" my butt. Just tryin to act like a big shot. The county belongs to the residents, not no dang citizen with a gun and a badge.

 

 

Lone Dog, about you and the dog, I once saw the drug dog in Waco make a hit between the front seats of a Monte Carlo the cops had stopped. They really had something then, till the cop reached tween the seats and pulled out a chicken bone. True story, them dang dogs aren't God. But some cops think they are.

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Well it's a pretty sorry troop that would write an actual defective equipment citation for real. I never wrote a defective equipment actual citation to an honest citizen, that is more in the realm of verbal warning or actually not so much a verbal warning but just a heads up, "didja know yer head light was out?" And that is a public safety kinda thing as in whatch gonna do if the other one burns out. Driving home by park lights is slow and a traffic hazard.

 

But then defective equipment on a scrotebag's vehicle is like a bird's nest on the ground. Not only can you arrest and transport but you can play let's make a deal. We were looking for a certain weapon one time that had been used in a serious crime. I spotted the vehicle and stopped it for defective equipment. The driver also wasn't wearing his glasses which he was required to do as stated on his DL. Back-ups arrived and we asked to look in the trunk and told him we had intel the shotgun we needed to find was in there. At first he said no so we advised him he was under arrest for the defective equipment and the corrective lenses infraction and the car would be searched/impounded. He then wisely and willingly popped the trunk and we got to scratch that trunk off the list of where the weapon could be. And he got to go on his way with just two verbal warnings for the infractions.

 

BK, I'm sorry but you are wrong. An alert by a trained K9 is admissible in court and will stand up. Any contraband found is perfectly admissible. If nothing is found then you will be on your way in a reasonable time span. If you should then want to sue the governmental entity for being detained by the side of the road for a little while then you will have to pay some lawyer lots of money just to lose in court. K9 alerts are perfectly legal and permissible in Texas, no search warrant required.

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BK, apparently you had not committed a traffic offense but were the victim of a fishing expedition. Now I know this kind of thing goes on all the time but PC of some kind can usually be observed if you observe i.e. follow long enuff. Now if you are stopped in Texas for a legitimate traffic offense i.e. class C misdemeanor crime then if you want to get cute with that "is there a problem" officer business when the officer is doing his job which entails traffic enforcement but also the interdiction of illegal cargo then there is usually a dog either on board or close by. Once the dog alerts then no warrant is necessary to search. Whether you like it or don't like it.

 

Also anyone who refuses to sign the promise to appear/ticket/PR bond form will be on their way to jail and the vehicle will be inventoried/searched anyway, no "consent" necessary.

 

I would say that if you did in reality answer the officer's questions about 6 or so times with the same non answer then he showed amazing restraint and you were very lucky to go about your journey w/o additional hassle.

 

My advice is not to be purposely non-responsive to legitimate questions. Those questions are tools used to acquire knowledge to articulate reasonable suspicion that something is not legit. Especially if there is a driver and one or more passengers. When separated smugglers can never state the same story. When the answers are disparate there is your PC. Honest citizens should have no problems. Just be polite and answer the questions truthfully and the officer will soon be satisfied you are not smuggling and you will soon be on your way. Interdiction is very important in this day and age and giving the officer(s) grief when it is counterproductive to both your goals is just silly. His goal is to interdict illegal smuggling, yours is to be on your way. Why complicate and throw a wrench into the process which can be short if you are not smuggling and quite quick if you just co-operate the minimum amount of time necessary to ascertain what is what and if illegal activity is going on or not.

This is just amazing to me. You admit that fishing expeditions happen all the time. You acknowledge that the officer is attempting to gather information that will enable him to articulate reasonable suspicion (to charge or arrest you, duh) and you advise cooperation. :huh:

 

The old, if you have nothing to hide why can't I search argument. Because this very old piece of paper called the constitution says so.

 

Furthermore you claim amazing restraint on the part of an officer whose illegitimate questions go unanswered. Pulling a person over for a traffic violation does not provide you with a legitimate interest in where they're going, where they're coming from, or what cargo they are carrying. Period! That is established law. BTW, although I'm not a LEO, I have taught law in the past, both at the HS and college level and it's disturbing to me that people tasked with enforcing the law are so ignorant of what it actually says.

 

Your statement that when you are stopped you have "technically committed a crime " is incredibly incorrect and revealing at the same time. You've been ACCUSED of committing a crime. Have you heard of the presumption of innocence, or perhaps due process? Your status with regard to guilt or innocence is determined by a court, not the officer leveling te charge.

 

When I first posted I was simply curious as to why the OP answered the LEO's questions in the first place. Does NY law require it? I don't know, but GA and AL sure as hell don't.

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You must be having that age-old, whisky- dipped problem that comes with degenerated reading comprehension. I already said you can walk your dog wherever you want. But, you and Bosco won't get a sniff out of my truck and you're not searching it without a warrant... COMPRENDE AMIGO?

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No comprende amigo. If the dog alerts, then me and Bosco are gonna search. The only question is are you gonna be standing there observing peacefully or are you gonna be hooked up watching from out of the cage. And again, in either outcome me and Bosco are not gonna get or need to get a search warrant.

 

Period. Comprende? Now if we find contraband you surely may beat the rap if you have a slick enuff very highly paid lawyer. But you will not beat the ride and you will be there at least overnite until the judge comes in to arraign you. Or he may make you wait a day or two especially if it's the week-end. Meanwhile you won't like the food or the company.

 

CBB, I do surely agree with you that there are far too many officers who didn't pay near enuff attention in Constitution class. And that's a dern shame. Then you have a few bad eggs that stink up the whole profession who somehow think most everyone needs to be arrested for the least little thing. I hate that. The system eventually weeds them out but sometimes not near quick enuff. No one respects our beloved Constitution and the protections and prohibitions than I. I think we are on the same page just not communicating well because of the shortcomings of the electronic medium.

 

It's a hard job trying to interdict drugs while not imposing on citizen's rights but it has to be done and we are not winning that war nor even holding our own. Our K9s are invaluable in the fight and I am glad they have been enlisted. I don't see where the use of dogs tramples anyone's rights. If you are innocent, you will be released shortly. If you are hauling dope then you are going to prison where you need to be. The only problem with dogs is they cost too much and they don't live long enuff. But a good trained dog will recover his acquisition cost in a very short time compared to his/her useful career length.

 

All this I don't have to answer any questions and being un-cooperative to an officer doing his duty for low pay in a war for the future of our society is not helping the warrior in the war. I do not understand copping an attitude. How does that help anyone? It's not gonna get you on your way any faster, if anything it just slows down the process. The steps in the process can be routine and much easier and faster with a modicum of co-operation. But it's your time. It all pays the same for the officer. And the dog, who works for a toy and groceries.

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Just trust the nice officers, and step into the showers, Ladies and Gentlemen. It's for your own good and protection. Never question authority... my shiny fat, hairy butt...your boy in New York sure helped out cooperating Aramis, didn't he, LD?

 

And still you spout the same jack-booted,"Just cooperate with the nice man. He's trying to help you." BS...

 

Gimme a break... 20 BILLION a year and the drug cartels are getting rich enough to form their own armies. What a waste of lives, blood and treasure this war has been. Maybe we're starting to turn the tide in CO, WY and MT this year.

 

But, I digress... get a cell phone... they all have cameras and download the AP for OPEN WATCH. It streams the signal to their server so it can't be erased when that nice man with a badge is busy violating your rights.

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Staples won't accept rifles or shotguns for UPS, either, but I ship from them all the time. They don't ask what's in the package, and I don't volunteer.

Read what "Quinn" was convicted of: http://www.ledgernews.com/news/503-march-17-2010/1722-three-canton-residents-sentenced-in-federal-gun-trafficking-case

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A couple of thoughts LD.

 

Electronic media is probably an issue as you stated.

 

I believe BK is saying deploy the dog if you wish, his sniffer won't find anything cause nothing is there.

 

I'm a libertarian so I don't agree that the War on Drugs 'must' be done. I don't care what fools do to their bodies. Let em shoot heroin or whatever till their heads explode, cleans up the gene pool. I've never understood why the government cares what people do to themselves, at least as long as they do it at home.

 

I don't consider standing up for your constitutional rights to be 'copping an attitude.'. The only attitude I ever copped with a LEO was when a CO LEO told my wife to 'shut up b1tch.' His badge kept his teeth in his head, but my attorney did a number on his personnel jacket and he never knew it was coming, cause I kept my mouth shut and signed the ticket (illegal parking).

 

I always cooperate, right up until I'm asked to do something I'm not obligated to do, which is hardly ever (two tickets in 10 years, headlight out and cracked windshield). Then I just smile and play Forrest Gump.

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I haven't been on in a few weeks.

Thought I'd add something informative as well as entertaining.

 

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Seriously though, I hope the OP can give the NY state legal system a swift kick in the nuts.

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Well,

 

Plenty of talking going on. It seems this SASS Pard has got a real problem & is a real person. How can we help him? I gather that Kentucky Wrangler aka Aramis Gulbeyan Sr. is the owner of Circle M Saddlery & Gun Leather in San Antonio, TX. Has anyone from San Antonio visited with him? How can we help?

 

Hasta Luego, Keystone

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Well,

 

Plenty of talking going on. It seems this SASS Pard has got a real problem & is a real person. How can we help him? I gather that Kentucky Wrangler aka Aramis Gulbeyan Sr. is the owner of Circle M Saddlery & Gun Leather in San Antonio, TX. Has anyone from San Antonio visited with him? How can we help?

 

Hasta Luego, Keystone

Does he have a website? I need some leather stuff for the wife and son.

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i belive it has been blocked by remmo serif oso he was trying to help me to reise money serif oso thank you he is true cowboy with golden heart.

link was all pink suspenders for cancer shoot but since sound commercial has been blocked .

Kentucky wrangler

 

Did you reach the NRA?

 

 

 

BURT, read post 156 and 159 I believe?

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You must be having that age-old, whisky- dipped problem that comes with degenerated reading comprehension. I already said you can walk your dog wherever you want. But, you and Bosco won't get a sniff out of my truck and you're not searching it without a warrant... COMPRENDE AMIGO?

 

If you get yourself arrested, then he's going to search incident to the arrest. You can push it too far, most of us have dash camera's and the violation on the vid. Also, that little deal you pulled on the guy would have just got you locked up if had any type charge at all.

That said I do not agree with the modern interdiction stops and most of the old guys will not get involved, but this is very prevelent these days. You would be surprised what they get off the highways using them.

I agree, I would tell the LEO no to a search and have done it myself with a Georgia DOT enforcement officer.

 

*Note to Capt Burt, Miranda is not a factor in a traffic stop; you've been reading Bubba Head's BS. He just wants you to get arrested so he can charge the fool out of you to make that rediculous fee.

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I read em Dan, but no Web address, just talk about a pulled classified ad.

 

BTW, my middle boy made his debut last week at South River, not a bad performance for a 7 year old. Maybe he can shoot with Lightning one day soon?

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