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rawhide teddy01

wrong full arrest

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Another way to support him is to follow this link. It looks like a Win- Win - Win to me.

 

http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=192568

 

FWIW...YMMV..SOso

 

 

Thanks for link SOso, I E-Mailed his web site to verify. I am going to send him a hundred via Pay-Pal when he verifies his account. After reading and following this thread the last few days and especially you fellow Texans and SASS pards vouching for him, I am sure he is another victim of unfortunate circumstance in NY State. After all of the suggestions and advice and what should and shouldn't be done, the bottom line is he will need financial help more than any kind of help most of us could give. As I understand he is in not very good health and has very limited resources. I know that ignorance of the law is no excuse but I think he was blind-sided by the charges as would most of us be in the same situation. I have been to and through New York State as was he, thinking I was legal by conforming to Federal Law but was lucky I guess and did not get pulled over for anything. I am not a rich or wealthy man by any means but probably have more than I deserve, so I am contributing so he may be able to hire a lawyer or representative to speak for him in court and possibly not have to go back to NY State.

Mink..........

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This whole thing is alarming on a number of levels. But what it boils down to is that we all need to be protected by FEDERAL laws, be it whether or not to have a baby, who you want to marry or transporting guns. The whole ridiculous "states rights" issue threatens the very fabric of our national society. New York State's draconian gun laws are horrible, but imagine getting off the interstate in Gomerville and finding that you have inadvertently violated some arcane local "morality codes" of one kind or another with equally huge legal and financial burdons placed upon you. So let's not separate our gun rights from our other rights.

 

For us, we are contemplating a move to New Hampshire. This means passing through NY with a moving van full of guns, ammunition, black and smokeless powder, etc. if we move there. From reading this thread, it seems like we would be running a gauntlet.

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This whole thing is alarming on a number of levels. But what it boils down to is that we all need to be protected by FEDERAL laws, be it whether or not to have a baby, who you want to marry or transporting guns. The whole ridiculous "states rights" issue threatens the very fabric of our national society. New York State's draconian gun laws are horrible, but imagine getting off the interstate in Gomerville and finding that you have inadvertently violated some arcane local "morality codes" of one kind or another with equally huge legal and financial burdons placed upon you. So let's not separate our gun rights from our other rights.

 

For us, we are contemplating a move to New Hampshire. This means passing through NY with a moving van full of guns, ammunition, black and smokeless powder, etc. if we move there. From reading this thread, it seems like we would be running a gauntlet.

 

Ya but once you get here, your in "gun heaven" :P

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I wonder if the gun insanity in NY State is less if you take a route further away from NYCity.

I would hate to try NY throughway all the way to albany then to mass pike.

That may be asking for more trouble.

 

I wonder if the ny state cops pull over ny state plates.

 

As you might try to get a rental that would do.

 

 

In any event A quick check of the map shows that KW was using what amounts to one of the quicker ways into PA from CT via NY I84.

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This whole thing is alarming on a number of levels. But what it boils down to is that we all need to be protected by FEDERAL laws, be it whether or not to have a baby, who you want to marry or transporting guns. The whole ridiculous "states rights" issue threatens the very fabric of our national society. New York State's draconian gun laws are horrible, but imagine getting off the interstate in Gomerville and finding that you have inadvertently violated some arcane local "morality codes" of one kind or another with equally huge legal and financial burdons placed upon you. So let's not separate our gun rights from our other rights.

 

For us, we are contemplating a move to New Hampshire. This means passing through NY with a moving van full of guns, ammunition, black and smokeless powder, etc. if we move there. From reading this thread, it seems like we would be running a gauntlet.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that handguns, not rifles or shotguns, are the problem. As I noted somewhere above, we're contemplating a move from VT to Michigan, and I think I'll just ship my handguns ahead via UPS and FFL. Might be a tad expensive, but little enough to be lost amongst the other moving costs, and it'd be far less than legal problems would be.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that handguns, not rifles or shotguns, are the problem. As I noted somewhere above, we're contemplating a move from VT to Michigan, and I think I'll just ship my handguns ahead via UPS and FFL. Might be a tad expensive, but little enough to be lost amongst the other moving costs, and it'd be far less than legal problems would be.

Hey Badlands. That is what we have been thinking. If this move comes to pass, I have a built-in new FFL dealer I could ship my pistolas to (I know they do not have to be booked, just makes sure they land in a safe place). I think my local FFL guy would cut me a break to ship them, as I have been a very good customer.

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For those of you contemplating an interstate move in which your guns would have to travel through NY state there are two safe ways to do it, one is safe for you than the other. 1. Use a commercial mover such as Mayflower or Allied Van Lines. They do not like to ship guns but will. If you wish you could pack them in a box orr old trunk yourself. Just make sure they're in something you can lock. And don't tell the mover they contain guns. 2. This way is a little less safe for you specially if you have to stop overnight. Pack them in lockable containers and load them on to a rental truck or trailer so that the entire load would have to be unloaded before you could get to them. It's not likely that you'd be stopped driving a rental truck but if you were just tell em the truck contains household goods. Let em look if they want, after they produce a search warrant.

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For those of you contemplating an interstate move in which your guns would have to travel through NY state there are two safe ways to do it, one is safe for you than the other. 1. Use a commercial mover such as Mayflower or Allied Van Lines. They do not like to ship guns but will. If you wish you could pack them in a box orr old trunk yourself. Just make sure they're in something you can lock. And don't tell the mover they contain guns. 2. This way is a little less safe for you specially if you have to stop overnight. Pack them in lockable containers and load them on to a rental truck or trailer so that the entire load would have to be unloaded before you could get to them. It's not likely that you'd be stopped driving a rental truck but if you were just tell em the truck contains household goods. Let em look if they want, after they produce a search warrant.

 

Yup - when we moved from Cali to the Chi-town area the United movers saw the guns and said...we're not supposed to take those....however he said "wrap 'em and tell us they are fishing rods"....they got there safe and sound.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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For those of you contemplating an interstate move in which your guns would have to travel through NY state there are two safe ways to do it, one is safe for you than the other. 1. Use a commercial mover such as Mayflower or Allied Van Lines. They do not like to ship guns but will. If you wish you could pack them in a box orr old trunk yourself. Just make sure they're in something you can lock. And don't tell the mover they contain guns. 2. This way is a little less safe for you specially if you have to stop overnight. Pack them in lockable containers and load them on to a rental truck or trailer so that the entire load would have to be unloaded before you could get to them. It's not likely that you'd be stopped driving a rental truck but if you were just tell em the truck contains household goods. Let em look if they want, after they produce a search warrant.

 

Used method #2 when moving from Massachusetts to Florida by way of NY State. Did not go through NYC as we had to drive to Rochester.

 

Anyhow, I was never pulled over for anything and the "items" were disbursed in many boxes in the front of the truck.

It would have taken many long hours and hard labor for "them" to find the "items".

I know because it took many long hours and HARD labor to pack it.

 

 

Waimea

 

:FlagAm:

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Interesting question to be asked?

 

You are moving from somewhere south west of NY to somewhere North East of NY.

You are driving a rental moving van. From the drivers compartment you cannot get to the cargo area.

You have in the cargo area pistols/revolvers , rifles, shotguns and ammo all in locked boxes separated.

 

A NY State cop pulls you over.

He approaches the driver side and asked is you have any guns.

You as the driver say ?????

 

If he askes you to get out and then asks if there are any guns in the cargo

you say ???????

 

 

 

To the first question, one could say no - because one interprets his question as being for his safety and he wants to know if any guns are present in the drivers area.

One is not stupid and put them all in the cargo area.

 

To the 2nd question, If one says no. It is technically a lie. But Ione does it because one knows the cop would attempt to "steal" one's handguns in violation of federal law.

 

 

 

What do you guys think about that?

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To the 2nd question, If one says no. It is technically a lie. But Ione does it because one knows the cop would attempt to "steal" one's handguns in violation of federal law.

 

What do you guys think about that?

 

 

It's your ass, not mine.

 

I just don't understand this reluctance to go the FFL route. Even if you're just crossing NY for a weekend shoot, why not just send the handguns from your clubs' FFL to the host club's FFL, if it's that big a concern? Yeah, I know, 2nd Amendment. Still, it seems a little foolish to insist on your right to have a gun by risking the gun, itself.

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It's your ass, not mine.

 

I just don't understand this reluctance to go the FFL route. Even if you're just crossing NY for a weekend shoot, why not just send the handguns from your clubs' FFL to the host club's FFL, if it's that big a concern? Yeah, I know, 2nd Amendment. Still, it seems a little foolish to insist on your right to have a gun by risking the gun, itself.

 

 

Because the "host club's" FFL couldn't transfer them to you at the match.

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The correct answer to what's in the rental truck's cargo area is household goods. Every household I have ever lived in guns were a part of it's household goods.

 

Speaking from experience,in 1988 I ran the gauntlet. Moved from Ca. to Vt. and FOPA was only in effect for two years at that point.

Adios Sgt. Jake

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Because the "host club's" FFL couldn't transfer them to you at the match.

 

But he could to someone else, right? Who could then "loan" you the guns. I admit it's a little convoluted, but it would solve the more-serious problem.

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Another way to support him is to follow this link. It looks like a Win- Win - Win to me.

 

http://sassnet.com/f...howtopic=192568

 

FWIW...YMMV..SOso

 

I got this message:

[#10344] You do not have permission to view this topic.

 

What forum is it in?

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There is some problems here with the concept of using an FFL.

 

If I own the guns and am shipping them to an FFL so they get to me, the legal owner and the one who had the guns shipped, There is NO transfer of ownership involved here.

Thus it would appear that this does not include the use of 4473 etc.

The question that I have here is does the actual regs permit this.

It appears to me to be similar to the concept of sending a gun to a gunsmith and having it sent back to the owner and not an FFL.

In that case there is no transer of ownership.

 

Just thinking aloud.

 

As for why it would be impractical to ship guns ahead.

I would say that if you live in co are attending several matches in il, ohio and then one in nh.

That would be a bit odd. The return leg back to co would make sense as it is nh to co but what if i am going to a match tx.

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As for why it would be impractical to ship guns ahead.

I would say that if you live in co are attending several matches in il, ohio and then one in nh.

That would be a bit odd. The return leg back to co would make sense as it is nh to co but what if i am going to a match tx.

 

No, it's not a perfect solution, it's just an idea. I'm all in favor of someone coming up with a better one. It makes more sense than just complaining about the way things are.

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I got this message:

[#10344] You do not have permission to view this topic.

 

What forum is it in?

i belive it has been blocked by remmo serif oso he was trying to help me to reise money serif oso thank you he is true cowboy with golden heart.

link was all pink suspenders for cancer shoot but since sound commercial has been blocked .

Kentucky wrangler

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There is some problems here with the concept of using an FFL.

 

If I own the guns and am shipping them to an FFL so they get to me, the legal owner and the one who had the guns shipped, There is NO transfer of ownership involved here.

Thus it would appear that this does not include the use of 4473 etc.

The question that I have here is does the actual regs permit this.

It appears to me to be similar to the concept of sending a gun to a gunsmith and having it sent back to the owner and not an FFL.

In that case there is no transer of ownership.

 

Just thinking aloud.

 

As for why it would be impractical to ship guns ahead.

I would say that if you live in co are attending several matches in il, ohio and then one in nh.

That would be a bit odd. The return leg back to co would make sense as it is nh to co but what if i am going to a match tx.

 

 

When you give the pistols to your FFL, he has to enter them in his "bound book", and log them out to the "host" FFL, who upon receipt, has to enter them in his "bound book". For him to transfer them, it would have to be to a resident of the state where he is located, or to another FFL. Basically, anytime a FFL delivers a firearm to an individual, a 4473 has to be filled out.

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i belive it has been blocked by remmo serif oso he was trying to help me to reise money serif oso thank you he is true cowboy with golden heart.

link was all pink suspenders for cancer shoot but since sound commercial has been blocked .

Kentucky wrangler

 

 

Marauder, It appears that when I posted on the classifieds for Kentucky Wrangler, I did a bad thing and the thread has been removed because it was a "Commercial Posting". That is my best guess. It contained a link to KW's website and an offer to sell pink suspenders for Comin AtCha, with $2 going to fight breast cancer, and what little profit would be left would be to help KW raise money for his defense against the charges in New York.

 

Not being a vendor myself, it never occurred to me that my post on his behalf would violate the rules. For that I apologized and asked the moderators to remove it if it was deemed to violate the rules. I guess it did, but you can call him at the number he posted farther up this thread.

 

Oso

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It is perfectly legal to ship guns to yourself.

IE; Mr. Mike Smith

Holiday Inn Express

142 Hwy 142

Podunk, Id. 12345

 

From: Mike Smith

8765 Brown Circle

Toasty, FL 87652

 

Or you can ship them to yourself C/O a member of the host club at their home or office. If shipping to a hotel try to arrive the day of or day before arrival of your guns. Inform the mgr and/or desk clerk that you are expecting a package and not to open it but call you as soon as it arrives. Same if you're moving. Ship them to yourself at your new home address.

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I think that the most interesting thing about this thread, and ones like it, is that those members who I know to be attorneys are advising the person with the problem to get an attorney who practices in that area and many of those members who are not attorneys are offering legal advice.

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When you give the pistols to your FFL, he has to enter them in his "bound book", and log them out to the "host" FFL, who upon receipt, has to enter them in his "bound book". For him to transfer them, it would have to be to a resident of the state where he is located, or to another FFL. Basically, anytime a FFL delivers a firearm to an individual, a 4473 has to be filled out.

 

According to your post then an FFL cannot be used.

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I think that the most interesting thing about this thread, and ones like it, is that those members who I know to be attorneys are advising the person with the problem to get an attorney who practices in that area and many of those members who are not attorneys are offering legal advice.

 

Buffalo Dick, that is an astute observation! Unfortunately, Kentucky Wrangler has a Public Defender assigned to his case. And that PD is apparently too busy to call him and discuss the case. I found out, by speaking to several legal offices in Orange County, NY, that the Defense Atty has to request of the Prosecution that the personal appearance be waived and the PD be allowed to enter a plea on behalf of the defendant.

 

So, the good news is: he has (some) legal representation.

The bad news is: he is probably facing fines, confiscation of 3 handguns, and who knows what else.

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A public pretender in Orange CO. NY is unlikely yo even call the guy or any such thing, expecting to meet him for the first time in the "cattle call" of appearances, five minutes before court. He will expect to spend exactly 4 minutes telling the defendant what plea he should enter and the expected punishment. You can recognize em by the wheeled suitcase of folders they show up with, each file a case to be handled, often 100 a day.

 

So that said, if MY azz was in the sling here, and I couldn't get a reply from the PD's office before the first appearance date, I'd be calling the COURT's office (find out who the judge is and get hold of their secretary) explaining I was out of state and my PD wouldn't answer, but I want the judge to know before my case is called that I want to waive personal appearance, and ask for two more things, a continuance for counsel, and the court to instruct the PD to call me. This will paper yer behind against an otherwise likely arrest warrant, and set the proper tone with the PD, letting him know you expect service and are not about to roll over, no matter how inconvenient that might be for this harried, part time, underpaid leach.

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A public pretender in Orange CO. NY is unlikely yo even call the guy or any such thing, expecting to meet him for the first time in the "cattle call" of appearances, five minutes before court. He will expect to spend exactly 4 minutes telling the defendant what plea he should enter and the expected punishment. You can recognize em by the wheeled suitcase of folders they show up with, each file a case to be handled, often 100 a day.

 

So that said, if MY azz was in the sling here, and I couldn't get a reply from the PD's office before the first appearance date, I'd be calling the COURT's office (find out who the judge is and get hold of their secretary) explaining I was out of state and my PD wouldn't answer, but I want the judge to know before my case is called that I want to waive personal appearance, and ask for two more things, a continuance for counsel, and the court to instruct the PD to call me. This will paper yer behind against an otherwise likely arrest warrant, and set the proper tone with the PD, letting him know you expect service and are not about to roll over, no matter how inconvenient that might be for this harried, part time, underpaid leach.

 

well stated, AJ !!

I will be sure KW sees and heeds this note (If the Court will talk to him, that is....)

Oso

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Interesting question to be asked?

 

You are moving from somewhere south west of NY to somewhere North East of NY.

You are driving a rental moving van. From the drivers compartment you cannot get to the cargo area.

You have in the cargo area pistols/revolvers , rifles, shotguns and ammo all in locked boxes separated.

 

A NY State cop pulls you over.

He approaches the driver side and asked is you have any guns.

You as the driver say ?????

 

If he askes you to get out and then asks if there are any guns in the cargo

you say ???????

 

 

 

To the first question, one could say no - because one interprets his question as being for his safety and he wants to know if any guns are present in the drivers area.

One is not stupid and put them all in the cargo area.

 

To the 2nd question, If one says no. It is technically a lie. But Ione does it because one knows the cop would attempt to "steal" one's handguns in violation of federal law.

 

 

 

What do you guys think about that?

Why can't your answers be, why are you pulling me over, do you have reason to believe that I do, am I free to go and if not, why not? Do I have some obligation to answer any question a LEO happens to ask? Does my failure to answer provide him with probable cause?

 

I'm very rarely pulled over, but I refuse to answer questions that aren't related to why I was pulled over. Where are you going? None of your business. Where do you work, none of your business. Where are you going, none of your business.

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CBB, have you ever REALLY said that stuff to a REAL cop?

 

Yea but it was probably from the back seat of the cop car. :)

Ya can beat the time but ya can't beat the ride :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Just some basic things to know. Good cop will tell you why he pulled you over and when that happens you are under arrest. You remain under arrest until cop tells you that you can go. The only reason you get to leave is because you signed the ticket to promise to appear in court. Don't sign it and see where ya go. Right to the cross bar hotel don't pass go just to jail

Anyway that is the way it worked when I was a Deputy Sheriff in Texas for a time

WJ

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I am always polite to cops, you can politely say, that's not your business. Yes I have said that when asked where I work, or where I'm going. When asked whether I'm carrying I don't say that I say yes, but then I'm legal to carry in Georgia.

 

No I've never seen the back seat of a cop car from the inside.

 

BTW, I'm pretty sure when you get pulled over you're NOT automatically 'under arrest' you're being detained.

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It is perfectly legal to ship guns to yourself.

IE; Mr. Mike Smith

Holiday Inn Express

142 Hwy 142

Podunk, Id. 12345

 

From: Mike Smith

8765 Brown Circle

Toasty, FL 87652

 

Or you can ship them to yourself C/O a member of the host club at their home or office. If shipping to a hotel try to arrive the day of or day before arrival of your guns. Inform the mgr and/or desk clerk that you are expecting a package and not to open it but call you as soon as it arrives. Same if you're moving. Ship them to yourself at your new home address.

 

Do you have a legal or other cite? You sound like you know what you're talking about, but it also sounds too good to be true. What did Reagan say, "Trust, but verify"?

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Yes, it is legal to ship guns to yourself, however none of the "common carriers" will do it due to their company rules.

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