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rawhide teddy01

wrong full arrest

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You guys might want to check out FOPA. This law changed the GCA. Thus it changed the federal laws pertaining to firearms transportation.

 

It is the real answer to this problem.

 

 

Now lets get to the federal regs as they are stated at this time.

 

From atf-p-5300-4.pdf from the ATF website. This is the 2005 edition of the laws.

Federal Law on Firearms Transportation

Look to roughly page 25. but search by section 926A gets you there.

 

Title 18 Section 926A

§ 926A Interstate transportation of firearms.

 

Notwithstanding any other provisions of any law or any rule or regulation of a

State or any political subdivision therof, any person who is not otherwise prohib-

ited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be

entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may

lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully

possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is

unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily

accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such

transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compart-

ment separate from the driver’s compartment, the firearm or ammunition shall be

contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

 

This Federal law should have been applied here,but apparently NY State probably takes the position that their laws preempt Federal law. The District of Columbia just recently found out that theirs doesn't. We can speculate all day about his rights and what should or shouldn't have been done, but the fact still remains that he was arrested and charged for who knows what. Until a case like this is challenged and goes through all the judicial process in NY State and maybe even the Federal Courts, NY State Law will be applied as seen fit.......I would be interested in knowing what he was charged with, felony or misdemeanor? Can't imagine them letting him go with a felony charge? Probably the best he can hope for is to cut a deal with them over the phone and hopefully pay a fine. I would not go back there for any reason.............Mink...........

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This Federal law should have been applied here,but apparently NY State probably takes the position that their laws preempt Federal law. The District of Columbia just recently found out that theirs doesn't. We can speculate all day about his rights and what should or shouldn't have been done, but the fact still remains that he was arrested and charged for who knows what. Until a case like this is challenged and goes through all the judicial process in NY State and maybe even the Federal Courts, NY State Law will be applied as seen fit.......I would be interested in knowing what he was charged with, felony or misdemeanor? Can't imagine them letting him go with a felony charge? Probably the best he can hope for is to cut a deal with them over the phone and hopefully pay a fine. I would not go back there for any reason.............Mink...........

mis

i was charged 4 degree misdemeanor

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mis

i was charged 4 degree misdemeanor

 

What were the exact charges?

 

They did take your guns didn't they?

 

How many guns?

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This Federal law should have been applied here,but apparently NY State probably takes the position that their laws preempt Federal law. The District of Columbia just recently found out that theirs doesn't. We can speculate all day about his rights and what should or shouldn't have been done, but the fact still remains that he was arrested and charged for who knows what. Until a case like this is challenged and goes through all the judicial process in NY State and maybe even the Federal Courts, NY State Law will be applied as seen fit.......I would be interested in knowing what he was charged with, felony or misdemeanor? Can't imagine them letting him go with a felony charge? Probably the best he can hope for is to cut a deal with them over the phone and hopefully pay a fine. I would not go back there for any reason.............Mink...........

 

 

 

The law can still be applied.

The cop is only one step.

When this guys lawyer shows up in court and says title 18 section 926A this thing is probably over.

 

Remember bloombergs mission here is to harass gun owners.

He did that well.

This guys guns are gone..... He will most likely never see them again.

If he does he will need to sue in FEDERAL court as he will be sueing New York state.

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Something like this maybe?

 

265.01

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Doesn't sound to good fer ya.

Did you post bond to appear in court ? Not bail.

Did you spend the night in NY State? If so Fed law doesn't apply but NYS law does I think.

Did they keep your guns?

Are you now in Texas?

WYandot

Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Fourth Degree (CPW 4th) is a class “A” misdemeanor in New York punishable by up to one year in jail. There are several ways one can commit the crime of CPW 4th.

 

 

CRIMINAL POSSESSION

OF A WEAPON

FOURTH DEGREE

(A Misdemeanor)

(Possession of Firearm)

PENAL LAW 265.01(1)

(Committed on or after Nov. 1, 1990)

The count is Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the

Fourth Degree.

Under our law, a person is guilty of Criminal Possession of

a Weapon in the Fourth Degree when that person knowingly1

possesses any firearm.

Some of the terms used in this definition have their own

special meaning in our law. I will now give you the meaning of the

following terms: "firearm," "possess," and "knowingly."

A FIREARM means any pistol or revolver.2

Under this count, the firearm need not be loaded but it must

be operable. To be operable, a firearm must be capable of

discharging ammunition.3

POSSESS means to have physical possession or

4See, Penal Law § 10.00(8). Where constructive possession is alleged, or where the People

rely on a statutory presumption of possession, insert the appropriate instruction as found in

the "Additional Charges" section at the end of this chapter.

5See, Penal Law § 15.05(2).

2

otherwise to exercise dominion or control over tangible property.4

A person KNOWINGLY possesses a firearm when that

person is aware that he or she is in possession of such firearm.5

In order for you to find the defendant guilty of this crime, the

People are required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, from all

the evidence in the case, each of the following three elements:

1. That on or about (date) , in the county of (county) , the

defendant, (defendant's name), possessed a firearm;

2. That the defendant did so knowingly; and

3. That the firearm was operable.

Therefore, if you find that the People have proven beyond

a reasonable doubt each of those elements, you must find the

defendant guilty of the crime of Criminal Possession of a Weapon

in the Fourth Degree as charged in the count.

On the other hand, if you find that the People have not

proven beyond a reasonable doubt any one or more of those

elements, you must find the defendant not guilty of the crime of

Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Fourth Degree as

charged in the count.

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Doesn't sound to good fer ya.

Did you post bond to appear in court ? Not bail.

Did you spend the night in NY State? If so Fed law doesn't apply but NYS law does I think.

Did they keep your guns?

Are you now in Texas?

WYandot

Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Fourth Degree (CPW 4th) is a class “A” misdemeanor in New York punishable by up to one year in jail. There are several ways one can commit the crime of CPW 4th.

 

 

CRIMINAL POSSESSION

OF A WEAPON

FOURTH DEGREE

(A Misdemeanor)

(Possession of Firearm)

PENAL LAW 265.01(1)

(Committed on or after Nov. 1, 1990)

The count is Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the

Fourth Degree.

Under our law, a person is guilty of Criminal Possession of

a Weapon in the Fourth Degree when that person knowingly1

possesses any firearm.

Some of the terms used in this definition have their own

special meaning in our law. I will now give you the meaning of the

following terms: "firearm," "possess," and "knowingly."

A FIREARM means any pistol or revolver.2

Under this count, the firearm need not be loaded but it must

be operable. To be operable, a firearm must be capable of

discharging ammunition.3

POSSESS means to have physical possession or

4See, Penal Law § 10.00(8). Where constructive possession is alleged, or where the People

rely on a statutory presumption of possession, insert the appropriate instruction as found in

the "Additional Charges" section at the end of this chapter.

5See, Penal Law § 15.05(2).

2

otherwise to exercise dominion or control over tangible property.4

A person KNOWINGLY possesses a firearm when that

person is aware that he or she is in possession of such firearm.5

In order for you to find the defendant guilty of this crime, the

People are required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, from all

the evidence in the case, each of the following three elements:

1. That on or about (date) , in the county of (county) , the

defendant, (defendant's name), possessed a firearm;

2. That the defendant did so knowingly; and

3. That the firearm was operable.

Therefore, if you find that the People have proven beyond

a reasonable doubt each of those elements, you must find the

defendant guilty of the crime of Criminal Possession of a Weapon

in the Fourth Degree as charged in the count.

On the other hand, if you find that the People have not

proven beyond a reasonable doubt any one or more of those

elements, you must find the defendant not guilty of the crime of

Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Fourth Degree as

charged in the count.

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Doesn't sound to good fer ya.

Did you post bond to appear in court ? Not bail.

Did you spend the night in NY State? If so Fed law doesn't apply but NYS law does I think.

Did they keep your guns?

Are you now in Texas?

WYandot

Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Fourth Degree (CPW 4th) is a class “A” misdemeanor in New York punishable by up to one year in jail. There are several ways one can commit the crime of CPW 4th.

 

 

CRIMINAL POSSESSION

OF A WEAPON

FOURTH DEGREE

(A Misdemeanor)

(Possession of Firearm)

PENAL LAW 265.01(1)

(Committed on or after Nov. 1, 1990)

The count is Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the

Fourth Degree.

Under our law, a person is guilty of Criminal Possession of

a Weapon in the Fourth Degree when that person knowingly1

possesses any firearm.

Some of the terms used in this definition have their own

special meaning in our law. I will now give you the meaning of the

following terms: "firearm," "possess," and "knowingly."

A FIREARM means any pistol or revolver.2

Under this count, the firearm need not be loaded but it must

be operable. To be operable, a firearm must be capable of

discharging ammunition.3

POSSESS means to have physical possession or

4See, Penal Law § 10.00(8). Where constructive possession is alleged, or where the People

rely on a statutory presumption of possession, insert the appropriate instruction as found in

the "Additional Charges" section at the end of this chapter.

5See, Penal Law § 15.05(2).

2

otherwise to exercise dominion or control over tangible property.4

A person KNOWINGLY possesses a firearm when that

person is aware that he or she is in possession of such firearm.5

In order for you to find the defendant guilty of this crime, the

People are required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, from all

the evidence in the case, each of the following three elements:

1. That on or about (date) , in the county of (county) , the

defendant, (defendant's name), possessed a firearm;

2. That the defendant did so knowingly; and

3. That the firearm was operable.

Therefore, if you find that the People have proven beyond

a reasonable doubt each of those elements, you must find the

defendant guilty of the crime of Criminal Possession of a Weapon

in the Fourth Degree as charged in the count.

On the other hand, if you find that the People have not

proven beyond a reasonable doubt any one or more of those

elements, you must find the defendant not guilty of the crime of

Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Fourth Degree as

charged in the count.

Hi they let me go

no bail or bond required

i spend in hotel one nigth

yes thay keep the guns

yes I am in texas

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Doesn't sound to good fer ya.

Did you post bond to appear in court ? Not bail.

Did you spend the night in NY State? If so Fed law doesn't apply but NYS law does I think.

Did they keep your guns?

Are you now in Texas?

WYandot

Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Fourth Degree (CPW 4th) is a class “A” misdemeanor in New York punishable by up to one year in jail. There are several ways one can commit the crime of CPW 4th.

 

 

CRIMINAL POSSESSION

OF A WEAPON

FOURTH DEGREE

(A Misdemeanor)

(Possession of Firearm)

PENAL LAW 265.01(1)

(Committed on or after Nov. 1, 1990)

The count is Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the

Fourth Degree.

Under our law, a person is guilty of Criminal Possession of

a Weapon in the Fourth Degree when that person knowingly1

possesses any firearm.

Some of the terms used in this definition have their own

special meaning in our law. I will now give you the meaning of the

following terms: "firearm," "possess," and "knowingly."

A FIREARM means any pistol or revolver.2

Under this count, the firearm need not be loaded but it must

be operable. To be operable, a firearm must be capable of

discharging ammunition.3

POSSESS means to have physical possession or

4See, Penal Law § 10.00(8). Where constructive possession is alleged, or where the People

rely on a statutory presumption of possession, insert the appropriate instruction as found in

the "Additional Charges" section at the end of this chapter.

5See, Penal Law § 15.05(2).

2

otherwise to exercise dominion or control over tangible property.4

A person KNOWINGLY possesses a firearm when that

person is aware that he or she is in possession of such firearm.5

In order for you to find the defendant guilty of this crime, the

People are required to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, from all

the evidence in the case, each of the following three elements:

1. That on or about (date) , in the county of (county) , the

defendant, (defendant's name), possessed a firearm;

2. That the defendant did so knowingly; and

3. That the firearm was operable.

Therefore, if you find that the People have proven beyond

a reasonable doubt each of those elements, you must find the

defendant guilty of the crime of Criminal Possession of a Weapon

in the Fourth Degree as charged in the count.

On the other hand, if you find that the People have not

proven beyond a reasonable doubt any one or more of those

elements, you must find the defendant not guilty of the crime of

Criminal Possession of a Weapon in the Fourth Degree as

charged in the count.

I did not have them in my POSSESSION they were in truck bed inlocked box

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Remember, any legal advice you get on the wire is worth exactly what you paid for it. Nothing. You need to get off the wire and hire a lawyer.

 

100%

 

 

Hope you get through this with minimal damage...

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Remember, any legal advice you get on the wire is worth exactly what you paid for it. Nothing. You need to get off the wire and hire a lawyer.

 

 

This is the best advice available.

Many have said things that may be correct in the absense of a courtroom.

And things that are just plain incorrect.

 

 

I add one thing to what LEP says.

Hire a lawyer familiar with how NY perverts gun laws and can practice in NYS.

 

Sorry to say, I doubt you will ever see your guns again.

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I did not have them in my POSSESSION they were in truck bed inlocked box

 

 

Sorry BUT THAT Makes them in your possession.

Per the NYS Law when ya spend the night they don't consider it traveling. I don't think the FED law does either.

Get a lawyer. Yea your guns are probably gone.

Glad you are back home. Sounds like since you didn't have to post bond nothing will come of it except lose of guns. Which is bad enough.

Sorry,

Jim

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I have known and bought stuff from Kentucky Wrangler at several shoots for many years now. He is a stand-up guy and it is a crying shame that something like this could happen to a good guy like him.

 

KW does live in San Antonio and does travel the country doing engravings, leather work, and gun repairs. There is always a hearty greeting waiting for me when we see each other at a shoot.

 

And yes, his facility with our native tongue is not as great as ours, but I bet he speaks better English than you speak Greek (he is from Greece).

 

I wish there was something I could do, other than offer advice from Texas and be really pi$$ed at the NY trooper.

 

Hopefully a Public Defender can help him get his case thrown out, or at least get him excused from appearing.

 

Best Wishes my friend...Oso

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Sorry BUT THAT Makes them in your possession.

Per the NYS Law when ya spend the night they don't consider it traveling. I don't think the FED law does either.

Get a lawyer. Yea your guns are probably gone.

Glad you are back home. Sounds like since you didn't have to post bond nothing will come of it except lose of guns. Which is bad enough.

Sorry,

Jim

What federal law?

Take look at T18 section 926A it doesn't say anything about traveling.

Spending a night is always part of longer distance travel.

He also said he did it AFTER guns were stolen by the ny state gestapo.

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Quick question for all LEOs.

 

Did your oath that you took say that you would enforce federal laws or laws of the country etc as well as jurisdictionals?

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I have known and bought stuff from Kentucky Wrangler at several shoots for many years now. He is a stand-up guy and it is a crying shame that something like this could happen to a good guy like him.

 

KW does live in San Antonio and does travel the country doing engravings, leather work, and gun repairs. There is always a hearty greeting waiting for me when we see each other at a shoot.

 

And yes, his facility with our native tongue is not as great as ours, but I bet he speaks better English than you speak Greek (he is from Greece).

 

I wish there was something I could do, other than offer advice from Texas and be really pi$$ed at the NY trooper.

 

Hopefully a Public Defender can help him get his case thrown out, or at least get him excused from appearing.

 

Best Wishes my friend...Oso

Thank you my friend

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What federal law?

Take look at T18 section 926A it doesn't say anything about traveling.

Spending a night is always part of longer distance travel.

He also said he did it AFTER guns were stolen by the ny state gestapo.

 

OK Hacker Calm down.

That is why I asked the question. NYS says if you spend the night you ARE NOT Traveling. And they don't give a crap about FED Law.

Everything I have read says if you are stopped with a handgun and you are out of State you are screwed.

Ya might beat the time but ya won't beat the ride.

Just the way it is like it or not. Bottom line I will not go to NY with a gun.

What a shame since I have spent a lot of time in Up State NY

Lived and worked in Montrial for 6 months.

FWIW A Pard of mine got stopped by DPS going from Hou to Dal. Had a handgun in sight. Well he got to spend 3 days in jail for that. Fri-Mon. You can have a gun anyway or type but not in the open. So ya need to know the law.

WJ

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OK Hacker Calm down.

That is why I asked the question. NYS says if you spend the night you ARE NOT Traveling. And they don't give a crap about FED Law.

Everything I have read says if you are stopped with a handgun amy nd you are out of State you are screwed.

Ya might beat the time but ya won't beat the ride.

Just the way it is like it or not. Bottom line I will not go to NY with a gun.

What a shame since I have spent a lot of time in Up State NY

Lived and worked in Montrial for 6 months

 

 

i spoke to nra lawyer he will let me know if he can help .by then i read t all since I don't have any felony might say good bye to hand guns or simply probation or small fine ? he could not tell me he said he will call me back My best advise don't take anything looks like a gun New York.

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Just say no.

 

Don't go. Too bad, but that is evidently the way the State wants it - not the people, just the State.

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Gotta agree-DON'T go back, say goodbye to the guns.

OK folks I'll say it first- let's take up a collection to replace his guns. Ghost or Wyandot-one of you want to do it? Appears he lives in Texas.

KW-what was the value of the guns?

If someone will do the fund I'll pledge $100 to start it.

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Gotta agree-DON'T go back, say goodbye to the guns.

OK folks I'll say it first- let's take up a collection to replace his guns. Ghost or Wyandot-one of you want to do it? Appears he lives in Texas.

KW-what was the value of the guns?

If someone will do the fund I'll pledge $100 to start it.

 

 

Yea I be in to help a Texan from a far away land.

WJ

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While I have nothing against KW, He waved a flag in front of the bull.

Driving into NY State with a label on your vehicle that you have something to do with guns is not the brightest idea.

A little pre trip ressearch would have told KW to cover/remove the sign.

 

So in a way he contributed to the loss of his firearms.

It may not be legal and he may in the long run be able to get his firearms back if he sues NYS in FEDERAL court.

There is another potential problem, that is how does NY list the charges (Yes I know he said they were misdemeanors).

And will the background checks show them and cause future purchases to be denied.

 

JUst the facts of driving into the mouth of the bs dispenser on firearms.

Reality. Sorry KW.

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While I agree that it was not very smart to advertise on his vehicle, that does not excuse his treatment by LEOs who choose to IGNORE federal laws that should have protected him.

I guess you've contibuted already. 2 cents worth. Very generous.

I'm just trying to do something nice for someone who got royally screwed.

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It is not really as simple as that.

A little pre trip research would have told him what NYState does;

 

NRA ILA Guideto Interstate Transportation of Firearms

 

 

I don't bill for advise. But it does pay to listen to those that use citations vs unsubstantiated ramblings.

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Reading the posts, it is obvious that there is a lot of incorrect information.

 

Although interpretation of state, federal and local laws may be decided by a court, there is genuine concern for the truth.

 

It also appears that confusion by law enforcement adds to the mix.

 

I would be very concerned if I was running shoots where travelers would have to travel through the states in question. Right or wrong, some people will be avoiding these shoots for fear of being stopped, arrested and having their firearms taken away. For many, it is not worth the risk.

 

The local laws, at the shoot location, may be clear but if folks have to travel through another jurisdiction to get there, we are again back on the misinformation trail.

 

This is not a simple boo boo that will go away.

 

However this plays out, I would watch it very carefully. In the end we all need to understand and know what we can and cannot do.

 

In our hearts we know how it should be, but that is not how things are being judged in some states. We all know that our victim was just a simple man doing what he does to make a legal living. We all wish him the best.

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I live in CT which means I am "trapped" in New England by the Great State of New York. The NYC area airports are also an obvious alternate landing site to the Hartford airport when the weather turns bad if you try and get out and back via air instead of driving. I fret over what happened to this poor man happening to me every time I come and go to a match outside of New England. If the stop is long enough and they take us and the bags off the plane, I'm likely to be arrested at the airport when trying to get checked in for another flight.

 

I'm here to tell you, this poor guy isn't kidding. Yes, there is a Federal Peaceable Journey law and NY doesn't give a crap. They arrest you, take your guns, cost you a ton of money and time forcing you to court and then say "oh, sorry I forgot" when it gets thrown out of court and your guns are ordered returned to you. But they seem to have "lost" your guns by then......... It's harrasment, plain, simple and very effective.

 

Please keep in mind that English is a second language for this man and he lives in Texas, By Gawd. I'm sure he believes what he has been told about the 2nd Amendment in the USA and has his "Texas Mentality" of gun ownership from living there. Expecting him to read and understand reams of laws, rules, and regulations about a state he was only passing through a corner of seems rather unreasonable to me. You can't get by with just reading STATE law in NY, either. Every county, city, township, etc can have even more or different laws, rules and regulations.

 

Going to a match in NY is safer but still nerve-wracking, even if all the laws are follwed and you check every town on the route to avoid the ones that seem the worst. Having a BB gun can get you put in jail in some towns! Going through NY as a non-resident with no NY permit to a match somewhere else is something between a calculated risk and a crap shoot. I know this seems too far out to be real to people in other parts of the country but it is really true.

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Gotta agree-DON'T go back, say goodbye to the guns.

OK folks I'll say it first- let's take up a collection to replace his guns. Ghost or Wyandot-one of you want to do it? Appears he lives in Texas.

KW-what was the value of the guns?

If someone will do the fund I'll pledge $100 to start it.

if i don't go there will be bench warrant to arrest

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Let's not forget, however, that we're also talking about playing the odds. I live directly on (the good side of) the intersection of Vermont, Quebec and New York. As a matter of course, I do a lot of driving in both NYS and Canada, with frequent trips to visit relatives in Michigan, driving both north and south of the Lakes. In the 30 years we've been here, I can recall two speeding tickets in New York, one warning for missing a stop sign in Vermont, and nothing, anywhere else. The car has never been searched, even going through Customs in either direction, except one time it was examined (from the exterior) with a geiger counter.*

 

Having said that, we may be moving to Michigan after I retire, in maybe four years. It looks like the most-sensible plan will be to ship the handguns to my brother via FFL transfer, then drive down the New England side of the NYS line until I can cut over to Pennsylvania.

 

Point is, there's no reason to get scared, just be careful. I think it was Lady Barbara Hornblower who once said, "The lucky man knows how much he can leave to chance." Or, if you like, "Before you fight with the world, make sure you can survive the world winning."

 

 

 

*As it turned out, when we pulled up to the Customs booth there was a lady standing on the other side of us, several feet away, who'd just undergone some sort of radioactive therapy at a local hospital.

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if i don't go there will be bench warrant to arrest

 

Yeah, but then NYS would have to pay to have you extradited.

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Well,

I got a couple of Stoooopid questions. :rolleyes:

#1 There are 19 SASS Clubs listed in the SASS info for NY. Why haven't any of those Pards spoke up on their laws while traveling. I damn sure know the Texas laws.

#2 Do they get out of state shooters to the TWO big matches listed? If Yes how do they get there. :unsure:

Wyandot in the dark on this one.

In Texas the LEO would have wanted to admire the guns. Would have said Have a nice day Sir.

 

I didn't reply because he was travelling through the state not to a match in the state. All the matches I know about get NRA sanctioning which allows out of state and young shooters to legally shoot and possess a handgun for the purposes of the match. This guy was passing through in what seems to be a legal way. I have never heard of anything like this happening outside NYC. The NYC airports are tricky since having a hangun in NYC is a crime even for those of us with a pistol license issued outside NYC. This case is troubling to me since he did exactly what thwe law seems to require. I have heard of this type thing happening in New Jersey, but not NY.

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