something overheard in gunstore

[Trigger Mike]

was shopping for a new cleaning rod and patches and heard two store clerks talk about how the ATF had visited them and asked questions about one of their customers. Said the customer did not make the money needed to be buying the guns he was buying and wondered if they knew how he was doing it. They said they told them they did not know. Asked if they should stop selling to the man and the ATF said no, but notify us if he buys again. Made me wonder what would be sending such a red flag to them to inquire. Made me wonder what does it matter how he does it?

[Tell Sackett SASS 18436]

Big Brother is watching!

[Dorado]

Sounds to me like he might have been under suspicion and the ATF is covering their bases. You never know the man may have been making threats or have done something that would raise alarms. I do not believe that the ATF is going to spend the resources to investigate every gun owner without reason.

[Utah Bob #35998]

If they are in fact conducting an investigation that's pretty sloppy.

I wonder if they told the loose lipped clerks to keep it under their hat?

[Deacon Will]

This is becoming more amd more previlant.

[Sneaky Gun Runner SASS 79775]

I did a informal poll around where I live among some friends of mine. All of us have FFL's. Except for our initial interviews none of us have ever had an audit (knock wood).

 

Of the five of us three are Class 1 and two are Class 3.

 

One of the class ones has had his FFL for 27 years.

 

UB nailed it, those were very sloppy ATF agents.

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

Couple years back when I purchased my Thompson and waited for approval back from ATF. Well 3 months passed, calling my dealer who was holding the Thompson till my stamp and approval came. I got to talking to Mike Venturino, collector and writer, and he told me it should only take 4 to 6 weeks and gave me the number to call and check. Well the agent told me approval had been given 2 months ago and approval and stamp sent to the gunshop. I called the gunshop up and they told me they still hadn't gotten approval. I called ATF up and told them what the gunshop said and if I could have another approval sent. Within 2 days, ATF agents came to the gunshop and checked all their paperwork, records, sales, etc. They also found my approval. The gunshop has since told me, also apoligizing they have been audited because of my complaint several times since. Also all their Class 3 transactions are now on approval only. Whatever that means. MT

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

MT, I guess once the atf finds a sloppy record keeping they expect that to continue.

 

Although I guess we as citizens should expect sloppy record keeping to continue with the atf and guns it has.

[Sergeant Smokepole #29248L]

The purchaser is probably suspected of making Straw Sales. and some of the firearms that he had purchased are beginning to pop up at crime scenes or in arrests.

 

 

Just a guess....

[Utah Bob #35998]

The purchaser is probably suspected of making Straw Sales. and some of the firearms that he had purchased are beginning to pop up at crime scenes or in arrests.

 

 

Just a guess....

Quite possibly. But I'm sure you'll agree that the agents tipping off the store clerks is pretty shoddy police work.

[Sergeant Smokepole #29248L]

Quite possibly. But I'm sure you'll agree that the agents tipping off the store clerks is pretty shoddy police work.

 

Never had much dealings with federal Agents, I see........lol

[Seldom Seen #16162]

This wouldn't be one of the gun shops that sold guns to illegal purchasers in Operation Fast and Furious???

[Oklahomabound]

Never had much dealings with federal Agents, I see........lol

 

 

...I never wanted to have much dealing with federal Agents.....

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

I wonder how the ATF came to this conclusion. Are they perhaps holding onto the 4473s longer than 24 hours? Did they find a loophole where they can keep some of the 4473 info?

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

MMH, They would seem to be connecting number of guns purchased with income.

Perhaps there is a connection with the IRS.

 

This might actually be a case where they are doing real investigative work......

Just a thought.

[Sergeant Smokepole #29248L]

MMH, They would seem to be connecting number of guns purchased with income.

Perhaps there is a connection with the IRS.

 

This might actually be a case where they are doing real investigative work......

Just a thought.

 

Hacker,

 

This is actually a logical investigative step if you are looking at a pattern.

 

I know.... I hate to say anything nice about feds too.......lol

[Guest Sas]

was shopping for a new cleaning rod and patches and heard two store clerks talk about how the ATF had visited them and asked questions about one of their customers. Said the customer did not make the money needed to be buying the guns he was buying and wondered if they knew how he was doing it. They said they told them they did not know. Asked if they should stop selling to the man and the ATF said no, but notify us if he buys again. Made me wonder what would be sending such a red flag to them to inquire. Made me wonder what does it matter how he does it?

 

Although anything is possible, this doesn't sound like what an Agent would do openly. A meeting with

the manager of the store and a private conversation would be the way to handle an ongoing investigation.

No need to take a chance that the ATF is looking at a certain customer could get back to that customer.

[Guest Tennessee Stud, SASS# 43634 Life]

4-21-2012

[Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363]

I wonder how the ATF came to this conclusion. Are they perhaps holding onto the 4473s longer than 24 hours? Did they find a loophole where they can keep some of the 4473 info?

 

Now this is just a guess on my part ... although anything is possible ... perhaps the government has quietly been cross-referencing info on the 4473 with info in the IRS database. Would be incredibly easy to do, especially if the purchaser fills in the optional box with their SSN.

 

Hmmmmm .... ?

[Utah Bob #35998]

Although anything is possible, this doesn't sound like what an Agent would do openly. A meeting with

the manager of the store and a private conversation would be the way to handle an ongoing investigation.

No need to take a chance that the ATF is looking at a certain customer could get back to that customer.

 

There are all types of field agents. Most are adequate. Some are very sharp. Some are dumber than a bag of hammers.

[Guest Tennessee Stud, SASS# 43634 Life]

Some are dumber than a bag of hammers.

 

Unfortunately... never met none of them types.

 

FYI... the “alcohol” boys... all seem to be sharp as tacks... ‘though they all dress country-like... and act like back-country hicks. Deceiving as hell.

 

ts

[Rex M Rugers #6621]

I wonder how the ATF came to this conclusion. Are they perhaps holding onto the 4473s longer than 24 hours? Did they find a loophole where they can keep some of the 4473 info?

????????? I thought the 4473s stayed at the shop where purchase was made. How would ATF get them , other than visiting said gun shop? Or , maybe I am totally wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

Curious , Rex

[W. D. Pickett]

As in all things in life, you have some good, and some not worth the air they breath. Went on several investigations with federal people in my years in LE, but most of them were very tight lipped about what they were doing. But not long after that was the Miami incident. After that a lot of their "federal" attitude changed. As for the indivdual the agents were investigating, I would think three things. First he was doing something that he was not paying taxes on, that information had been developed indicating he had a lot more firearms coming in than money, or as has been said, his stuff is showing up in the wrong places.

[Rye Miles #13621]

????????? I thought the 4473s stayed at the shop where purchase was made. How would ATF get them , other than visiting said gun shop? Or , maybe I am totally wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

Curious , Rex

 

 

That was gonna be my question. The only way the ATF sees the 4473's is when they go into the gunshop. How in the world would the ATF know how much money anyone makes??? There's no place for "income" on a 4473! There's gotta be more to this story. Could be the gun shop employes are full of crapola!!!

 

Rye

 

 

 

[Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363]

Doesn't the clerk read all the info on the 4473 when he calls in for the background check?

 

Do any of us really know what's really going on at the other end? Maybe their computer is hooked up to more than just one database & network ...

[Jack Houston # 35508]

Watch "Criminal Minds" they get any info they want on anyone in seconds !!!

[Badlands Beady]

Nobody seems to have considered that the info may have been leaked intentionally.

 

ETA: Another thing: Is the subject person a government employee? I have to go through a security check every few years, and income v exenditure is one thing they look at, along with any foreign connections (ie my Canadian friends and my wife's English relatives).

[Wyatt]

I have dealt with the ATF many times. Two reasons they usually come a calling.

 

If a firearm is used in the commision of a crime they want to know who it was sold too.

 

FFL's are required to report multiple handgun sales to the ATF. So any time you purchase two or more HANDGUNS within five business days it is to be reported.

 

My guess would be straw purchase investigation of many handguns

 

Wyatt

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

Two more point about the checks done on a 4473.

They are run against the NICs that is run by the FBI not ATF.

And the SSN entry on the 4473 is OPTIONAL.

Here in Colorado we go through CBI that I presume gets to NICs.

 

 

Some thoughts to keep in mind.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Nobody seems to have considered that the info may have been leaked intentionally. Why??

 

ETA: Another thing: Is the subject person a government employee? I have to go through a security check every few years, and income v exenditure is one thing they look at, along with any foreign connections (ie my Canadian friends and my wife's English relatives).

[W. D. Pickett]

One thing about the ATF. They have had their problems in the past. Waco, Tx was one where everyone including the mailman knew they were going to raid the complex. Closed mouth gathers no foot and you really don't tell bad folks what you are going to do to them and expect them to be there to have it done.