Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Just saw on Facebook that the only proposal passed at the Summit was the one about a cowboy not shooting 2 or more stages being ineligible from the awards. Just rumors at this point. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Where on facebook? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Where on facebook? Just do a Facebook search on TG Summit Voting or similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted December 3, 2011 Author Share Posted December 3, 2011 Where on facebook? It was a fella who posted the brief message. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Here is what I found from Trestle Valley Rangers: http://trestlevalley...ers.com/tg.html Results for SASS Territorial Governor Summit Meeting *** Note - There were 284 clubs that were represented. 2/3 or 66% = 188 votes required to pass an agenda item *** 1) Should the scoring program be changed so that any shooter that does not finish TWO or more stages in a match is not eligible for any main match awards? item #1 For 235=82.75% -- Against 48=16.90% -- Abstain 1=.035% PASS 2) Should the limiting criteria for shooters in Age Based categories be changed from the current "minimum qualifying age OR GREATER" to "between the ages of…"? (e.g. Wranglers from 36-48; 49ers from 49-59; Seniors from 60-64; etc.) Item #2 For 112=39.44% -- Against 170=59.86% -- Abstain 2=.070% FAIL 3) Should an "OPEN" category be added with NO RESTRICTIONS regarding gender, age, shooting style or propellant? This would provide a single category in which ANY shooter could register. (Gunfighter-style competitors would have to comply with the current category regulations) Item #3 For 130=45.77% -- Against 152=53.52% - Abstain 2=.070% FAIL 4) Should the "B" Western Category options be rewritten to allow for additional ladies costuming options? Item #4 For 182=64.08% -- Against 100=35.62% - Abstain 2=.070% FAIL 5) Should the attached, proposed Category System be adopted? NOTE: Some of the Ladies categories that have historically been 'under populated' at most annual matches are no longer on the "officially recognized" list. Those have been replaced with FCGF, SGF, Cattle Baron, and 80+ (name as yet undetermined) A Match Director will always have the OPTION to offer ANY additional categories; as well as the OPTION to change the minimum requirement for honoring a category. Item #5 For 148=52.11% -- Against 136=47.89% -- Abstain 0=.00% FAIL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyb.1 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I find it difficult to understand why item #4 Ladies Wardrobe would not pass. Let the Ladies wear what the want. WOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOUTH-PACIFIC,SASS #59402 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 you are correct just item #1 passed. i have a copy of the results in my hand. i was also a voter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phiren Smoke GUNFIGHTER Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I did not expect FCGF to get a simple majority but it did so maybe it can be brought up next year as a stand alone item as it should be, and hopefully passed. Smoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I find it difficult to understand why item #4 Ladies Wardrobe would not pass. Let the Ladies wear what the want. WOW Actually, many of the male TGs felt that way. However, in talking to several ladies after the Thursday session, THEY did not like it because of the time, money and effort Lady B Western shooters have put into their costumes. There was also a concern about whether the proposed rule would allow moccasins instead of boots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 There were also several rule "clarifications." I will just summarize: 1. Clarification of the rule on de-cocking. "Under the direct supervision" of an RO means the RO has given a positive indication that the RO has approved the de-cocking. 2. EMF pepperbox. It is based on a full size cap and ball frame so it is not a legal "pocket pistol." However, it is a legal main match revolver. 3. The .38 S&W Special is a legal rifle round for use in Plainsman side matches. 4. The language in the manuals will be clarified to make it clear receiver sights are NOT legal, but optical sights are legal if there is an optical category. (Some wording in the manuals wasn't changed when optical sights were legalized. This just cleans up that language.) 5. Shotguns shooting slugs are NOT legal for long range rifle matches. 6. There is an app for the Iphone that accumulates data and gives sight adjustments. Range finders and any electronic aids are not legal for rifle side matches. 7. Bisley hammers are not legal on a Ruger Old Army unless the ROA is also fitted with a Bisley gripframe. 8. Carrying ammunition in an outlawed holder will be covered by the "Use of illegally-acquired ammunition" rules for accessing penalities. (For example, a rifle reload carried in a hat band.) 9. It is illegal to have a shotgun slide over shotgun loops on a belt. Rifle/pistol ammo slides or loops over shotgun loops on a belt is, however, acceptable. 10. Single barrel shotguns may be used in Plainsman side matches. 11. Clarification on the types of barrels that can be used to replace a revolver barrel. An octagon barrel, half-round, etc., may be used to replace a round barrel. 12. Clarification of a dropped firearm. A firearm that has left the shooter's control and come to rest at a location or position other than where it was intended." 13. Clarification of "in-hand" as it applies to loaded revolvers. Revolver "in-hand" that starts from a holster means the muzzle is clear of the mouth of the holster (i.e. out of leather) Revolver "in-hand" that is staged on a prop means the muzzle is no longer in contact with the surface of the initial staging point. Once the muzzle clears the holster or all contact is broken with the prop, the shooter is in violation if not registered as a GF or BW competitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowdy Rex, SASS #71002 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I find it difficult to understand why item #4 Ladies Wardrobe would not pass. Let the Ladies wear what the want. WOW Jimmy, I think there was several things wrong with this proposal. The ladies can wear whatever they want in any age based catagory. The B-Western ladies that I have talked to said leave it as it is. I also think it would have been very hard to police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 #1 Guess some were tired of T-Bone passing out, missing 2 or 3 stages and still beating them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 It's the pits that Item #2 failed. My favorite Cherry Picker gets a whole new season to pick the humugous cherry(s). LOL. Oh well!!!! Life is not always a bowl of cherries... Blastmaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Here is what I found from Trestle Valley Rangers: http://trestlevalley...ers.com/tg.html Results for SASS Territorial Governor Summit Meeting *** Note - There were 284 clubs that were represented. 2/3 or 66% = 188 votes required to pass an agenda item *** 1) Should the scoring program be changed so that any shooter that does not finish TWO or more stages in a match is not eligible for any main match awards? item #1 For 235=82.75% -- Against 48=16.90% -- Abstain 1=.035% PASS 2) Should the limiting criteria for shooters in Age Based categories be changed from the current "minimum qualifying age OR GREATER" to "between the ages of…"? (e.g. Wranglers from 36-48; 49ers from 49-59; Seniors from 60-64; etc.) Item #2 For 112=39.44% -- Against 170=59.86% -- Abstain 2=.070% FAIL 3) Should an "OPEN" category be added with NO RESTRICTIONS regarding gender, age, shooting style or propellant? This would provide a single category in which ANY shooter could register. (Gunfighter-style competitors would have to comply with the current category regulations) Item #3 For 130=45.77% -- Against 152=53.52% - Abstain 2=.070% FAIL 4) Should the "B" Western Category options be rewritten to allow for additional ladies costuming options? Item #4 For 182=64.08% -- Against 100=35.62% - Abstain 2=.070% FAIL 5) Should the attached, proposed Category System be adopted? NOTE: Some of the Ladies categories that have historically been 'under populated' at most annual matches are no longer on the "officially recognized" list. Those have been replaced with FCGF, SGF, Cattle Baron, and 80+ (name as yet undetermined) A Match Director will always have the OPTION to offer ANY additional categories; as well as the OPTION to change the minimum requirement for honoring a category. Item #5 For 148=52.11% -- Against 136=47.89% -- Abstain 0=.00% FAIL Best that I can remember that is about 50 less clubs voting than last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 They need to get rid of the empty in a shotgun!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Adams 3674 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 They need to get rid of the empty in a shotgun!!!! +1 Yep, but good luck with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrimstoneJerome Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 It's the pits that Item #2 failed. My favorite Cherry Picker gets a whole new season to pick the humugous cherry(s). LOL. Oh well!!!! Life is not always a bowl of cherries... Blastmaster No hijacked intended, I appreciate your position on this subject sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 8. Carrying ammunition in an outlawed holder will be covered by the "Use of illegally-acquired ammunition" rules for accessing penalities. (For example, a rifle reload carried in a hat band.) That's the difference between a SDQ and a "P". The old rule was "use of illegal equipment" which is a SDQ. The new rule is the equivalent of someone handing a round off to the shooter "use of illegally- acquired ammo. Although, IIRC any shots are scored as misses, too. I guess attempting to pickup or using dropped rounds remains a "MSV"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Mushman Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 That's the difference between a SDQ and a "P". The old rule was "use of illegal equipment" which is a SDQ. The new rule is the equivalent of someone handing a round off to the shooter "use of illegally- acquired ammo. Although, IIRC any shots are scored as misses, too. I guess attempting to pickup or using dropped rounds remains a "MSV"? BK, You are remembering correctly - shots taken with illegally acquired ammo are also misses, PWB clarified this at the afternoon ROII course at the convention today after the TG summit votes. Interestingly enough, the ROII course was taught nicely by two or our pards from France, Frenchy Boy and Curley Red Rider - they done good! BTW attendance appeared much higher today than Thursday or Friday, as you would hope. Cheers, Harvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackaroo, # 29989 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I not glad that #2 failed, in fact I'm glad it did fail. Why should any aged based shooter be forced to shoot in his only bracket age?? It takes the fun out of us older guys, whipping them younger fellas asses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I find it difficult to understand why item #4 Ladies Wardrobe would not pass. Let the Ladies wear what the want. WOW Becasue they learned lessons in seeing what has happened in other categorys that let them do that. They wanted to keep it the way it was meant to be when it started. And many that voted NO. ARE Lady BW shooters. Like my wife that flat out said NO. As did many other BW shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 It takes the fun out of us older guys, whipping them younger fellas asses I can figure out real quick who whipped up on whomever by looking down the Overall (Total Time or Rank Point) leader board. I do smile when I see an older shooter beat a much younger fast gun shooter. However, when the "Missy Bob" older shooter that I don't know jumps down a couple catagories and is now listed as a junior shooter, then all I know is that Missy Bob is just another junior shooter and not an older shooter giving the younger 'good' shooter a run for their money. This probably doesn't matter to much to some. So, when we all are sitting around the camp fire and enjoying or favorite drink, and some one says they placed xx in catagory, that is good, unless they were the only one in catagory . When another pard says they placed within the top ten of the entire match, now that is more impressive and possible trumps the catagory finisher. I will continue to look at the Overall Leader Board and see who is consistantly running from their age based competition. There is entertainment value there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Fred SASS Life 20364 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 BTT so everyone can see the results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 There were also several rule "clarifications." I will just summarize: 1. Clarification of the rule on de-cocking. "Under the direct supervision" of an RO means the RO has given a positive indication that the RO has approved the de-cocking. 2. EMF pepperbox. It is based on a full size cap and ball frame so it is not a legal "pocket pistol." However, it is a legal main match revolver. 3. The .38 S&W Special is a legal rifle round for use in Plainsman side matches. 4. The language in the manuals will be clarified to make it clear receiver sights are NOT legal, but optical sights are legal if there is an optical category. (Some wording in the manuals wasn't changed when optical sights were legalized. This just cleans up that language.) 5. Shotguns shooting slugs are NOT legal for long range rifle matches. 6. There is an app for the Iphone that accumulates data and gives sight adjustments. Range finders and any electronic aids are not legal for rifle side matches. 7. Bisley hammers are not legal on a Ruger Old Army unless the ROA is also fitted with a Bisley gripframe. 8. Carrying ammunition in an outlawed holder will be covered by the "Use of illegally-acquired ammunition" rules for accessing penalities. (For example, a rifle reload carried in a hat band.) 9. It is illegal to have a shotgun slide over shotgun loops on a belt. Rifle/pistol ammo slides or loops over shotgun loops on a belt is, however, acceptable. 10. Single barrel shotguns may be used in Plainsman side matches. 11. Clarification on the types of barrels that can be used to replace a revolver barrel. An octagon barrel, half-round, etc., may be used to replace a round barrel. 12. Clarification of a dropped firearm. A firearm that has left the shooter's control and come to rest at a location or position other than where it was intended." 13. Clarification of "in-hand" as it applies to loaded revolvers. Revolver "in-hand" that starts from a holster means the muzzle is clear of the mouth of the holster (i.e. out of leather) Revolver "in-hand" that is staged on a prop means the muzzle is no longer in contact with the surface of the initial staging point. Once the muzzle clears the holster or all contact is broken with the prop, the shooter is in violation if not registered as a GF or BW competitor. 13. Clarification of "in-hand" as it applies to loaded revolvers. Revolver "in-hand" that starts from a holster means the muzzle is clear of the mouth of the holster (i.e. out of leather) Revolver "in-hand" that is staged on a prop means the muzzle is no longer in contact with the surface of the initial staging point. Once the muzzle clears the holster or all contact is broken with the prop, the shooter is in violation if not registered as a GF or BW competitor HUH?....Ok...maybe this part is written out of context,but it makes NO sense to me.Explain please.Sounds like anyone shooting in any catagory is in violation if not a GF or BW shooter.Makes it SOUND like everyone else has to keep the revolver in the holster while shooting.Which in itself is a violation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 While I would love to have FCGF as a REAL category, I would not have wanted the other changes attached to it this time around. Why the delay? Did someone think it would carry a few other pet changes? If ever there were a category that should be ... CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 13. Clarification of "in-hand" as it applies to loaded revolvers. Revolver "in-hand" that starts from a holster means the muzzle is clear of the mouth of the holster (i.e. out of leather) Revolver "in-hand" that is staged on a prop means the muzzle is no longer in contact with the surface of the initial staging point. Once the muzzle clears the holster or all contact is broken with the prop, the shooter is in violation if not registered as a GF or BW competitor HUH?....Ok...maybe this part is written out of context,but it makes NO sense to me.Explain please.Sounds like anyone shooting in any catagory is in violation if not a GF or BW shooter.Makes it SOUND like everyone else has to keep the revolver in the holster while shooting.Which in itself is a violation. It's saying you have to keep the SECOND revolver's muzzle touching the holster or prop it's staged on unless you're a GF or BW shooter shooting GF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 OK...thanks Philly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Elimination of the TG Convention/Summit meeting for 2012 and unknown for later years, makes one wonder the future role of the TG in SASS and how in the future SASS will communicate with it's clubs. Hope there is a grand plan somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Rig a Tony , #54423 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 It's saying you have to keep the SECOND revolver's muzzle touching the holster or prop it's staged on unless you're a GF or BW shooter shooting GF. Might want to re-read this. It says muzzle is clear of the holster, doesn't say anything about touching the holster. These are two very diferent locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Elimination of the TG Convention/Summit meeting for 2012 and unknown for later years, makes one wonder the future role of the TG in SASS and how in the future SASS will communicate with it's clubs. Hope there is a grand plan somewhere. With the internet, it's easy enough to hold a vote when ever it's wanted/needed. No need to have everyone in a room together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 With the internet, it's easy enough to hold a vote when ever it's wanted/needed. No need to have everyone in a room together. Believe it or not, their are still people including TG's that are not in the computer age. KK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Believe it or not, their are still people including TG's that are not in the computer age. KK No way!? Well, I reckon those folks can send their votes in via pony express...or get their grand kids to help them log on long enough to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Believe it or not, their are still people including TG's that are not in the computer age. KK One of the requirements to be a TG is "Computer savvy with current e-mail address on file at all times." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 13. Clarification of "in-hand" as it applies to loaded revolvers. Revolver "in-hand" that starts from a holster means the muzzle is clear of the mouth of the holster (i.e. out of leather) Revolver "in-hand" that is staged on a prop means the muzzle is no longer in contact with the surface of the initial staging point. Once the muzzle clears the holster or all contact is broken with the prop, the shooter is in violation if not registered as a GF or BW competitor HUH?....Ok...maybe this part is written out of context,but it makes NO sense to me.Explain please.Sounds like anyone shooting in any catagory is in violation if not a GF or BW shooter.Makes it SOUND like everyone else has to keep the revolver in the holster while shooting.Which in itself is a violation. This comes into play for Double Duelist more than anybody. It came up earlier this year. With a video of a DD shooter. With staged pistols. Picks up the first one to shoot. And with other hand grips the 2nd and brings it to the muzzle still resting on the table. PaleWolf said at the time. It was easier to make the clarification fit the video, than to retrain all the Texas Boys. Which is the way we was reading it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 This comes into play for Double Duelist more than anybody. It came up earlier this year. With a video of a DD shooter. With staged pistols. Picks up the first one to shoot. And with other hand grips the 2nd and brings it to the muzzle still resting on the table. PaleWolf said at the time. It was easier to make the clarification fit the video, than to retrain all the Texas Boys. Which is the way we was reading it anyway. Hell, that's the way we's was taught Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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