TG summit

[Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884]

Just saw on Facebook that the only proposal passed at the Summit was the one about a cowboy not shooting 2 or more stages being ineligible from the awards.

 

Just rumors at this point.

 

Fillmore

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Where on facebook?

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Where on facebook?

Just do a Facebook search on TG Summit Voting or similar.

[Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884]

Where on facebook?

It was a fella who posted the brief message.

 

Fillmore

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Here is what I found from

Trestle Valley Rangers:

http://trestlevalley...ers.com/tg.html

 

Results for SASS Territorial Governor Summit Meeting

*** Note - There were 284 clubs that were represented. 2/3 or 66% = 188 votes required to pass an agenda item ***

1) Should the scoring program be changed so that any shooter that does not finish TWO or more stages in a match is not eligible for any main match awards?

item #1 For 235=82.75% -- Against 48=16.90% -- Abstain 1=.035% PASS

 

2) Should the limiting criteria for shooters in Age Based categories be changed from the current "minimum qualifying age OR GREATER" to "between the ages of…"?

(e.g. Wranglers from 36-48; 49ers from 49-59; Seniors from 60-64; etc.)

Item #2 For 112=39.44% -- Against 170=59.86% -- Abstain 2=.070% FAIL

 

3) Should an "OPEN" category be added with NO RESTRICTIONS regarding gender, age, shooting style or propellant? This would provide a single category in which ANY shooter could register. (Gunfighter-style competitors would have to comply with the current category regulations)

Item #3 For 130=45.77% -- Against 152=53.52% - Abstain 2=.070% FAIL

 

4) Should the "B" Western Category options be rewritten to allow for additional ladies costuming options?

Item #4 For 182=64.08% -- Against 100=35.62% - Abstain 2=.070% FAIL

 

5) Should the attached, proposed Category System be adopted?

NOTE: Some of the Ladies categories that have historically been 'under populated' at most annual matches are no longer on the "officially recognized" list. Those have been replaced with FCGF, SGF, Cattle Baron, and 80+ (name as yet undetermined) A Match Director will always have the OPTION to offer ANY additional categories; as well as the OPTION to change the minimum requirement for honoring a category.

 

Item #5 For 148=52.11% -- Against 136=47.89% -- Abstain 0=.00% FAIL

[jimmyb.1]

I find it difficult to understand why item #4 Ladies Wardrobe would not pass. Let the Ladies wear what the want. WOW

[SOUTH-PACIFIC,SASS #59402]

you are correct just item #1 passed. i have a copy of the results in my hand. i was also a voter

[Phiren Smoke GUNFIGHTER]

I did not expect FCGF to get a simple majority but it did so maybe it can be brought up next year as a stand alone item as it should be, and hopefully passed.

 

Smoke

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

I find it difficult to understand why item #4 Ladies Wardrobe would not pass. Let the Ladies wear what the want. WOW

 

Actually, many of the male TGs felt that way. However, in talking to several ladies after the Thursday session, THEY did not like it because of the time, money and effort Lady B Western shooters have put into their costumes. There was also a concern about whether the proposed rule would allow moccasins instead of boots.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

There were also several rule "clarifications." I will just summarize:

 

1. Clarification of the rule on de-cocking. "Under the direct supervision" of an RO means the RO has given a positive indication that the RO has approved the de-cocking.

 

2. EMF pepperbox. It is based on a full size cap and ball frame so it is not a legal "pocket pistol." However, it is a legal main match revolver.

 

3. The .38 S&W Special is a legal rifle round for use in Plainsman side matches.

 

4. The language in the manuals will be clarified to make it clear receiver sights are NOT legal, but optical sights are legal if there is an optical category. (Some wording in the manuals wasn't changed when optical sights were legalized. This just cleans up that language.)

 

5. Shotguns shooting slugs are NOT legal for long range rifle matches.

 

6. There is an app for the Iphone that accumulates data and gives sight adjustments. Range finders and any electronic aids are not legal for rifle side matches.

 

7. Bisley hammers are not legal on a Ruger Old Army unless the ROA is also fitted with a Bisley gripframe.

 

8. Carrying ammunition in an outlawed holder will be covered by the "Use of illegally-acquired ammunition" rules for accessing penalities. (For example, a rifle reload carried in a hat band.)

 

9. It is illegal to have a shotgun slide over shotgun loops on a belt. Rifle/pistol ammo slides or loops over shotgun loops on a belt is, however, acceptable.

 

10. Single barrel shotguns may be used in Plainsman side matches.

 

11. Clarification on the types of barrels that can be used to replace a revolver barrel. An octagon barrel, half-round, etc., may be used to replace a round barrel.

 

12. Clarification of a dropped firearm. A firearm that has left the shooter's control and come to rest at a location or position other than where it was intended."

 

13. Clarification of "in-hand" as it applies to loaded revolvers.

 

Revolver "in-hand" that starts from a holster means the muzzle is clear of the mouth of the holster (i.e. out of leather)

Revolver "in-hand" that is staged on a prop means the muzzle is no longer in contact with the surface of the initial staging point.

 

Once the muzzle clears the holster or all contact is broken with the prop, the shooter is in violation if not registered as a GF or BW competitor.

[Rowdy Rex, SASS #71002]

I find it difficult to understand why item #4 Ladies Wardrobe would not pass. Let the Ladies wear what the want. WOW

 

 

Jimmy,

 

I think there was several things wrong with this proposal. The ladies can wear whatever they want in any age based catagory. The B-Western ladies that I have talked to said leave it as it is. I also think it would have been very hard to police.

[Jack Houston # 35508]

#1 Guess some were tired of T-Bone passing out, missing 2 or 3 stages and still beating them

[Blastmaster]

It's the pits that Item #2 failed.

 

My favorite Cherry Picker gets a whole new season to pick the humugous cherry(s). LOL. Oh well!!!! Life is not always a bowl of cherries...

 

 

Blastmaster

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Here is what I found from

Trestle Valley Rangers:

http://trestlevalley...ers.com/tg.html

 

Results for SASS Territorial Governor Summit Meeting

*** Note - There were 284 clubs that were represented. 2/3 or 66% = 188 votes required to pass an agenda item ***

1) Should the scoring program be changed so that any shooter that does not finish TWO or more stages in a match is not eligible for any main match awards?

item #1 For 235=82.75% -- Against 48=16.90% -- Abstain 1=.035% PASS

 

2) Should the limiting criteria for shooters in Age Based categories be changed from the current "minimum qualifying age OR GREATER" to "between the ages of…"?

(e.g. Wranglers from 36-48; 49ers from 49-59; Seniors from 60-64; etc.)

Item #2 For 112=39.44% -- Against 170=59.86% -- Abstain 2=.070% FAIL

 

3) Should an "OPEN" category be added with NO RESTRICTIONS regarding gender, age, shooting style or propellant? This would provide a single category in which ANY shooter could register. (Gunfighter-style competitors would have to comply with the current category regulations)

Item #3 For 130=45.77% -- Against 152=53.52% - Abstain 2=.070% FAIL

 

4) Should the "B" Western Category options be rewritten to allow for additional ladies costuming options?

Item #4 For 182=64.08% -- Against 100=35.62% - Abstain 2=.070% FAIL

 

5) Should the attached, proposed Category System be adopted?

NOTE: Some of the Ladies categories that have historically been 'under populated' at most annual matches are no longer on the "officially recognized" list. Those have been replaced with FCGF, SGF, Cattle Baron, and 80+ (name as yet undetermined) A Match Director will always have the OPTION to offer ANY additional categories; as well as the OPTION to change the minimum requirement for honoring a category.

 

Item #5 For 148=52.11% -- Against 136=47.89% -- Abstain 0=.00% FAIL

Best that I can remember that is about 50 less clubs voting than last year.

[Jack Houston # 35508]

They need to get rid of the empty in a shotgun!!!!

[Grizzly Adams 3674]

They need to get rid of the empty in a shotgun!!!!

 

+1

 

Yep, but good luck with that!

[BrimstoneJerome]

It's the pits that Item #2 failed.

 

My favorite Cherry Picker gets a whole new season to pick the humugous cherry(s). LOL. Oh well!!!! Life is not always a bowl of cherries...

 

 

Blastmaster

 

No hijacked intended, I appreciate your position on this subject sir.

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

8. Carrying ammunition in an outlawed holder will be covered by the "Use of illegally-acquired ammunition" rules for accessing penalities. (For example, a rifle reload carried in a hat band.)

That's the difference between a SDQ and a "P". The old rule was "use of illegal equipment" which is a SDQ. The new rule is the equivalent of someone handing a round off to the shooter "use of illegally- acquired ammo. Although, IIRC any shots are scored as misses, too. I guess attempting to pickup or using dropped rounds remains a "MSV"?

[Harvey Mushman]

That's the difference between a SDQ and a "P". The old rule was "use of illegal equipment" which is a SDQ. The new rule is the equivalent of someone handing a round off to the shooter "use of illegally- acquired ammo. Although, IIRC any shots are scored as misses, too. I guess attempting to pickup or using dropped rounds remains a "MSV"?

 

BK,

 

You are remembering correctly - shots taken with illegally acquired ammo are also misses, PWB clarified this at the afternoon ROII course at the convention today after the TG summit votes. Interestingly enough, the ROII course was taught nicely by two or our pards from France, Frenchy Boy and Curley Red Rider - they done good!

 

BTW attendance appeared much higher today than Thursday or Friday, as you would hope.

 

Cheers,

Harvey

[Jackaroo, # 29989]

I not glad that #2 failed, in fact I'm glad it did fail.

Why should any aged based shooter be forced to shoot in his only bracket age??

It takes the fun out of us older guys, whipping them younger fellas asses

[Anvil Al #59168]

I find it difficult to understand why item #4 Ladies Wardrobe would not pass. Let the Ladies wear what the want. WOW

 

Becasue they learned lessons in seeing what has happened in other categorys

that let them do that. They wanted to keep it the way it was meant to be when it

started.

 

And many that voted NO. ARE Lady BW shooters. Like my wife that flat out said NO.

As did many other BW shooters.

[Blastmaster]

It takes the fun out of us older guys, whipping them younger fellas asses

 

 

I can figure out real quick who whipped up on whomever by looking down the Overall (Total Time or Rank Point) leader board.

 

I do smile when I see an older shooter beat a much younger fast gun shooter. However, when the "Missy Bob" older shooter that I don't know jumps down a couple catagories and is now listed as a junior shooter, then all I know is that Missy Bob is just another junior shooter and not an older shooter giving the younger 'good' shooter a run for their money. This probably doesn't matter to much to some.

 

So, when we all are sitting around the camp fire and enjoying or favorite drink, and some one says they placed xx in catagory, that is good, unless they were the only one in catagory . When another pard says they placed within the top ten of the entire match, now that is more impressive and possible trumps the catagory finisher.

 

I will continue to look at the Overall Leader Board and see who is consistantly running from their age based competition. There is entertainment value there.

[Diamond Fred SASS Life 20364]

BTT so everyone can see the results

[Charlie Whiskers]

There were also several rule "clarifications." I will just summarize:

 

1. Clarification of the rule on de-cocking. "Under the direct supervision" of an RO means the RO has given a positive indication that the RO has approved the de-cocking.

 

2. EMF pepperbox. It is based on a full size cap and ball frame so it is not a legal "pocket pistol." However, it is a legal main match revolver.

 

3. The .38 S&W Special is a legal rifle round for use in Plainsman side matches.

 

4. The language in the manuals will be clarified to make it clear receiver sights are NOT legal, but optical sights are legal if there is an optical category. (Some wording in the manuals wasn't changed when optical sights were legalized. This just cleans up that language.)

 

5. Shotguns shooting slugs are NOT legal for long range rifle matches.

 

6. There is an app for the Iphone that accumulates data and gives sight adjustments. Range finders and any electronic aids are not legal for rifle side matches.

 

7. Bisley hammers are not legal on a Ruger Old Army unless the ROA is also fitted with a Bisley gripframe.

 

8. Carrying ammunition in an outlawed holder will be covered by the "Use of illegally-acquired ammunition" rules for accessing penalities. (For example, a rifle reload carried in a hat band.)

 

9. It is illegal to have a shotgun slide over shotgun loops on a belt. Rifle/pistol ammo slides or loops over shotgun loops on a belt is, however, acceptable.

 

10. Single barrel shotguns may be used in Plainsman side matches.

 

11. Clarification on the types of barrels that can be used to replace a revolver barrel. An octagon barrel, half-round, etc., may be used to replace a round barrel.

 

12. Clarification of a dropped firearm. A firearm that has left the shooter's control and come to rest at a location or position other than where it was intended."

 

13. Clarification of "in-hand" as it applies to loaded revolvers.

 

Revolver "in-hand" that starts from a holster means the muzzle is clear of the mouth of the holster (i.e. out of leather)

Revolver "in-hand" that is staged on a prop means the muzzle is no longer in contact with the surface of the initial staging point.

 

Once the muzzle clears the holster or all contact is broken with the prop, the shooter is in violation if not registered as a GF or BW competitor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

13. Clarification of "in-hand" as it applies to loaded revolvers.

 

Revolver "in-hand" that starts from a holster means the muzzle is clear of the mouth of the holster (i.e. out of leather)

Revolver "in-hand" that is staged on a prop means the muzzle is no longer in contact with the surface of the initial staging point.

 

Once the muzzle clears the holster or all contact is broken with the prop, the shooter is in violation if not registered as a GF or BW competitor

 

 

 

 

 

HUH?....Ok...maybe this part is written out of context,but it makes NO sense to me.Explain please.Sounds like anyone shooting in any catagory is in violation if not a GF or BW shooter.Makes it SOUND like everyone else has to keep the revolver in the holster while shooting.Which in itself is a violation.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

While I would love to have FCGF as a REAL category, I would not have wanted the other changes attached to it this time around. Why the delay? Did someone think it would carry a few other pet changes? If ever there were a category that should be ...

 

CR

[Shooting Bull]

13. Clarification of "in-hand" as it applies to loaded revolvers.

 

Revolver "in-hand" that starts from a holster means the muzzle is clear of the mouth of the holster (i.e. out of leather)

Revolver "in-hand" that is staged on a prop means the muzzle is no longer in contact with the surface of the initial staging point.

 

Once the muzzle clears the holster or all contact is broken with the prop, the shooter is in violation if not registered as a GF or BW competitor

 

 

 

 

 

HUH?....Ok...maybe this part is written out of context,but it makes NO sense to me.Explain please.Sounds like anyone shooting in any catagory is in violation if not a GF or BW shooter.Makes it SOUND like everyone else has to keep the revolver in the holster while shooting.Which in itself is a violation.

 

 

It's saying you have to keep the SECOND revolver's muzzle touching the holster or prop it's staged on unless you're a GF or BW shooter shooting GF.

[Charlie Whiskers]

OK...thanks Philly

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Elimination of the TG Convention/Summit meeting for 2012 and unknown for later years, makes one wonder the future role of the TG in SASS and how in the future SASS will communicate with it's clubs. Hope there is a grand plan somewhere.

[Two Rig a Tony , #54423]

It's saying you have to keep the SECOND revolver's muzzle touching the holster or prop it's staged on unless you're a GF or BW shooter shooting GF.

 

 

Might want to re-read this. It says muzzle is clear of the holster, doesn't say anything about touching the holster. These are two very diferent locations.

[Grizzly Dave]

Elimination of the TG Convention/Summit meeting for 2012 and unknown for later years, makes one wonder the future role of the TG in SASS and how in the future SASS will communicate with it's clubs. Hope there is a grand plan somewhere.

 

With the internet, it's easy enough to hold a vote when ever it's wanted/needed. No need to have everyone in a room together.

[Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L]

With the internet, it's easy enough to hold a vote when ever it's wanted/needed. No need to have everyone in a room together.

 

 

Believe it or not, their are still people including TG's that are not in the computer age.

 

KK

[Grizzly Dave]

Believe it or not, their are still people including TG's that are not in the computer age.

 

KK

 

No way!? Well, I reckon those folks can send their votes in via pony express...or get their grand kids to help them log on long enough to vote.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

 

 

Believe it or not, their are still people including TG's that are not in the computer age.

 

KK

 

One of the requirements to be a TG is "Computer savvy with current e-mail address on file at all times."

[Anvil Al #59168]

13. Clarification of "in-hand" as it applies to loaded revolvers.

 

Revolver "in-hand" that starts from a holster means the muzzle is clear of the mouth of the holster (i.e. out of leather)

Revolver "in-hand" that is staged on a prop means the muzzle is no longer in contact with the surface of the initial staging point.

 

Once the muzzle clears the holster or all contact is broken with the prop, the shooter is in violation if not registered as a GF or BW competitor

 

 

 

 

 

HUH?....Ok...maybe this part is written out of context,but it makes NO sense to me.Explain please.Sounds like anyone shooting in any catagory is in violation if not a GF or BW shooter.Makes it SOUND like everyone else has to keep the revolver in the holster while shooting.Which in itself is a violation.

 

This comes into play for Double Duelist more than anybody.

 

It came up earlier this year. With a video of a DD shooter. With staged pistols.

Picks up the first one to shoot. And with other hand grips the 2nd and brings it to the

muzzle still resting on the table.

PaleWolf said at the time. It was easier to make the clarification fit the video, than to retrain all the Texas Boys.

Which is the way we was reading it anyway.

[Jack Houston # 35508]

This comes into play for Double Duelist more than anybody.

 

It came up earlier this year. With a video of a DD shooter. With staged pistols.

Picks up the first one to shoot. And with other hand grips the 2nd and brings it to the

muzzle still resting on the table.

PaleWolf said at the time. It was easier to make the clarification fit the video, than to retrain all the Texas Boys.

Which is the way we was reading it anyway.

Hell, that's the way we's was taught