Ben Cartwright #84097 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I have been thinking of trying out one of the long range events here in New England, the longest I know about is 300 yards. At the same time I was thinking of getting a new rifle for some of our 50 yard events and mostly because I have some money and the rifle I want looks really sharp to me - the 1873 Springfield Trapdoor Carbine in 45-70 When I see this rifle I think of Custer and his men. I have heard this is accurate to 150 yards, the question I have is could or would it shoot 300 yards? I am thinking of getting a 45-70 long range hunter at some point adn will probably do the 100 yard match with my 1873 .357 and 200 with my 30-30 But I can imagine sticking this in my shooting cart and pulling it out for the 50 yard target on a stage, just thinking of holding it on the line gets my heart beating fast. I don't worry about being compeditive, just about having fun. I am sure it may be on line with my shooting my WWII M1 Carbine at 50 yards in a Military Match against 1903A3's but would the 45-70 rounds reach a 300 yard target? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT. ELI 35882 GUNFIGHTER Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Ben, I have shot my carbine effectively out to 400 yards (that's the farthest distance I have had a chance to shoot it. I shoot a 405 weight bullet from it. I can ding a standard square 15" target at 100 yards all day long without even trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mingo Frank Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 This fellow is shooting a 44-40 at 300 yard javelina targets..... Seems a 45-70 could do as well. Mingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoken D Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Sounds like that is what you would really like to have, shoot, and be very happy with. Go for it. I don't have the Carbine, but shoot my great-grandpa's 84 Trapdoor. 405gr 1375 yards, no problem, and WHAT A HOOT!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seldom Seen #16162 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I have shot the 45-70 cartridge out to 600 yards and hit the target every time. But I was using my 12 lb.Rolling Block from crossticks. I have a H&R Trapdoor carbine which I brought for hunting (I use it for buffalo). It has the Buffington rear sight which has all sorts of adjustments on it. So while the carbine may be capable of 300 yard shots I am not when using this lightweight short barreled gun. p.s. Since being unemployed I have started making the painful decision of selling some of guns. The carbine is not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I have an 1884 Trapdoor rifle, and I have been able to hit the longest targets here in New England at things like the Shootout at Sawyer Flats in Harvard and at the long range side matches up in Pemi NH. BUT, the thing is darn heavy, and hard to shoot offhand with. So, I recently picked up a 73 trapdoor carbine. It started life as a rifle and someone converted and refinished it, so I got it for a song. Haven't shot it yet, but I have no doubt that I'll be able to continue to hit with it. I suspect that my mild .45-70 loads are prolly closer to the old .45-55 carbine loading anyway. We shall see. Good luck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKFOOT SASS #11947 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I don't know about that particular Trapdoor but the 45/70 cartridge is capable of 1,000 yards and on beyond. Drifter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Graham, # 26112 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Since you brought up Custer, you might like to know he thought the carbines were awful for accuracy. I have an old Cadet Model. It's not as heavy as a full size Trapdoor but retains a lot of the accuracy advantage. That may not be true with a modern reproduction in which case, you have a new Custer Trivia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Didn't the US Army carbines in 45-70 of yesteryear use a lighter charge of powder too? GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Cartwright #84097 Posted November 19, 2011 Author Share Posted November 19, 2011 I am not sure about the original powder charge, I believe it started at 70 gr of BP and was reduced because the troopers complained about the recoil. I am trying to Google it right now, but I read in a magazine, that I can't find right now that one of the actual Custer Trapdoors was recently found and tied back to the fight by shell casings found on the field at the Little Big Horn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel-eye Steve SASS #40674 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Didn't the US Army carbines in 45-70 of yesteryear use a lighter charge of powder too? GG ~ .45-55-405 was the carbine loading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 .45-55-405 was the carbine loading. Thanks... GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 .45-55-405 was the carbine loading. True! However, several company commanders, including Capt. Albert Barnitz, sent letters to the Ordnance Dept. in Washington requesting issuance of the full-power .45-70-405 loading with a concommetant change in the sights! The latter is why you find some of the under-S/N 50,000 carbines with M1873 Rifle rear sights instead of the M1873C. Most of the "Custer Period" Carbines that still have the Carbine rear sights have the long-wrist, short comb stocks. My theory is that these "left government control" prior to being inspected & repaired as necessary (IRAN) in 1879 or so. The ones with the rifle rear sights and usually the later, short, thick-wrist stocks were probably retro-fitted in the field when the original stocks cracked. Or else they were IRAN'd at the Springfield Armory and retrofitted with the newer stock. Just food for thought. Ride easy, but stay alert! Godspeed to those still in harm's way in the defense of Freedom everywhere! God Bless America! Your obdt servant, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 but would the 45-70 rounds reach a 300 yard target? Yes, and so will the 45-55-405 reload If I can hit Rams @ 500 meters with a 320gr 38-55 bullet with 42gr of FFg consistently - I think you get the picture that these 45-70 rounds will reach a 300yd target using black powder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seldom Seen #16162 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I seem to recall reading that the average training for Army troops in the West was shooting three rounds a month. I also recall that the average trooper was of small build and only weighed between 100 -120 lbs to avoid wearing out the horse too quickly when on the trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddnews SASS# 24779 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I have the Trapdoor officers model H&R made back in the 1970s, and I guarantee you it will do 300 yard targets all day (although I still plan to replace the crappy aperture sights on the rifle). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six-Shot Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 .45-55-405 was the carbine loading. Was the .45-55 cartridge casing actually shorter than the .45-70 or did they simply use less powder with a "filler"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pee Wee #15785 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I have 2 trapdoor rifles (H&R Trapdoor rifle and a Springfield Model 1894 rifle built last year of production) and either one will do 600 yards all day. My 1884 was used to compete in BPCR by another person and has won matches out to 800 yards. .45-70-525. Had a carbine that would ring steel at 500 yards with the 525 gr lead. A very good book to get for the .45-70 trapdoor shooters is: LOADING CARTRIDGES FOR THE ORIGINAL .45-70 SPRINGFIELD RIFLE AND CARBINE by J.S. and Pat Wolf third edition. Can buy at Wolf's Western Trader's, 30516 Erin Drive, Lacombe, LA 70445, Ph: 985-882-3401 web: www.the45-70book.com Other than buying the book I have nothing to do with the book or the web site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Was the .45-55 cartridge casing actually shorter than the .45-70 or did they simply use less powder with a "filler"? Howdy, Pard, Same case. They just added filler wads, which is a MUST with BP, for those who don't know. NEVER have an air gap between BP and the base of the bullet! In the 1880's, the carbine charge was increased to 70 grs, with the 405 grain bullet (#457124 Lyman equivalent). The rifle round went to a 500 grain bullet (similar to the #457125 Lyman mould). Don't know if the troops got bigger or they just figured the troops would get used to the increased recoil. Marksmanship got a boost in the eyes of both Ordnance and the commanders after the Rosebud and Little Big Horn battles. Happy Thanksgiving, all! Godspeed to those still in harm's way in the defense of Freedom everywhere! God Bless America! Your Pard, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six-Shot Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Howdy, Pard, Same case. They just added filler wads, which is a MUST with BP, for those who don't know. NEVER have an air gap between BP and the base of the bullet! In the 1880's, the carbine charge was increased to 70 grs, with the 405 grain bullet (#457124 Lyman equivalent). The rifle round went to a 500 grain bullet (similar to the #457125 Lyman mould). Don't know if the troops got bigger or they just figured the troops would get used to the increased recoil. Marksmanship got a boost in the eyes of both Ordnance and the commanders after the Rosebud and Little Big Horn battles. Happy Thanksgiving, all! Godspeed to those still in harm's way in the defense of Freedom everywhere! God Bless America! Your Pard, That's what I thought cause I ain't never see no .45-55 case Thanks pard' Six-Shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Trailrider, somewhere on the humongous world wide Internet, I saw sectional pictures of the 385gr carbine rounds, two of them. First version rounds with no wads and ones that had stacked wads. IIRC, the troops complained about accuracy with the no wad rounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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