Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Cowboy Action Shooting...


Creeker, SASS #43022

Recommended Posts

Snakebite and like thinking folk ....

 

Come and shoot here in Western Canada,,,,,,,,, We still DO lot's of Cowboy things both on and off the clock ...

We also do `theme shoots`based on real & reel Cowboy happenings ...

Things like shooting Both pistols from the saddle of a barrel horse,,,,, shooting out from the rampart of the fort ,,,, breaking out of Jail,,,,, Roping da Steer ,,,,,,, Branding ,,,,,, Carrying yer pard to saftey ,,,,,,, Tying a banadage around da dummy`s arm,neck,leg or like (your choice of where) ,,, etc.

 

Shooting your rifle of the back of a buffalo on the run ( The run simiulated by mechical means)..........

Shooting a charging Grizzly, comming down the hill right at you, triggered by dropping a popper ( it stopps before it gets you,even if you miss it)

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 97
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Philly Slim,

 

We shoot WB and CAS at Logan's Ferry in the greater Pittsburgh area on the same stage every month. They are not scored together but they are shot together. We load up the '97 and count misses (can't shoot until down). We use one 1911 with two five shot magazines instead of two revolvers with 5 shots each. Same lever action rifle. Why can't you shoot the same stage WB and/or CAS?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Bull!

It's not a "Quest for speed". The fact is that the membership is aging and would have a hell of a time doing many of the things that were done back in the 80's and 90's. The shear volume of shooters at big matches has gone up dramatically and there simply isn't time to have 60 second stages (run by Top Shooters...which would equate to about 120 second stages for the lower 3rd of the pack).

:FlagAm:

Phantom,

 

That's not really the case. There isn't, er wasn't anything that demanded great physical exertion to do. And many old timers played the game when I first started. The majority of participants have always been of "middle age" or older. Few were in their 30's or 40's when they started. And many of those have long since quit because of the lack of the "fun" stuff. I will agree that most things that have changed in the past 25 years were due to popular demand... and when the second handgun was added... something else had to go. It was the "fun" stuff. I think there was a perception and even comments made that cowboy action wasn't a real shooting sport because of the "fun" stuff. While maybe it wasn't due to direct pressure to change that perception... it certainly played a part in the slow demise of that element in the game. Folks that didn't like the "fun" element simply stayed away. Riding a stick horse from the starting position to the first shooting position really put a damper on some folks enthusiasm for the game... but, for those that let their "inner kid" loose, the fun factor was off the charts.

 

Any sport that separates it's winners from the also-rans on the element of time becomes a quest for speed. It's humanly impossible for that NOT to be the case. For those that know they don't have the physical prowess, determination, practice time, or just natural talent to be in the winner's circle, it may not be an over-riding factor in why they continue to participate, but yes, time is certainly a factor in their strategms and approach to each stage. Even my slow-as-molasses self strives to be smooth, for slow is smooth and smooth is fast! And yes, if Winner A is using a trick mod, you can bank of the fact that someone will think, "...golly I need one of those to be as fast!" That, my good friend is known as the quest for speed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Philly Slim,

 

We shoot WB and CAS at Logan's Ferry in the greater Pittsburgh area on the same stage every month. They are not scored together but they are shot together. We load up the '97 and count misses (can't shoot until down). We use one 1911 with two five shot magazines instead of two revolvers with 5 shots each. Same lever action rifle. Why can't you shoot the same stage WB and/or CAS?

 

 

Because they're not the same sport. What you described isn't Wild Bunch Action Shooting, it's Cowboy Action Shooting with a 1911. You can do it all you want but, it's not Wild Bunch. WBAS is SUPPOSED to be much more challenging; longer ranges/smaller targets, more reactive targets that need to be thumped with a large caliber bullet from both pistol and rifle, more movement between guns, more rounds downrange, etc. You don't run a NASCAR race on an NHRA drag strip and you don't shoot a Wild Bunch match on Cowboy stages. Go read the Wild Bunch Shooter's Handbook, it's right there in black and white.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally know some early-days shooters who have almost completely stopped shooting SASS because of the conditions you describe here.

 

 

I know some too... but listen.. I'm not trying to start a "Range War" here... I was just commenting on the post query. Phantom is right in one respect, it is not really feasable to do many of the things that we use to do... at least, not at the very large matches. And yes... there are a great many Physical things that the general membership would have problems with nowadays. However... the game can still be played at the local level, and there can still be a true Roll-Playing element injected into the game at that level. Things like..... flip the pancake or feed the chickens on the way to the next shooting station... I would NOT like to see the whole match be that way, but a little of it is fun. I really miss the "Guns of the Timberline" match in the Eureka area. We always had a continuing saga of rescuing Sweet Nell from the Saw or the Rail Road tracks or some such thing. It went on every year, and I looked forward to it. So... regardless of how young or old you are... or how fast or slow you are, a little game playing at the local level can be fun........ not just BS!

 

Snakebite

Link to post
Share on other sites

I know some too... but listen.. I'm not trying to start a "Range War" here... I was just commenting on the post query. Phantom is right in one respect, it is not really feasable to do many of the things that we use to do... at least, not at the very large matches. And yes... there are a great many Physical things that the general membership would have problems with nowadays. However... the game can still be played at the local level, and there can still be a true Roll-Playing element injected into the game at that level. Things like..... flip the pancake or feed the chickens on the way to the next shooting station... I would NOT like to see the whole match be that way, but a little of it is fun. I really miss the "Guns of the Timberline" match in the Eureka area. We always had a continuing saga of rescuing Sweet Nell from the Saw or the Rail Road tracks or some such thing. It went on every year, and I looked forward to it. So... regardless of how young or old you are... or how fast or slow you are, a little game playing at the local level can be fun........ not just BS!

 

Snakebite

Me too!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Phantom has a valid point.

 

We were talking about this subject after the last shoot. Yep most changes help the fast shooters go faster, but those same changes also help the slow shooters go faster. Chauncey did some things in the last match that made our stages faster. Everybody was shooting faster. The fast shooters saw their times drop 2-3 seconds a stage. The average shooters saw their times drop 5-10 seconds a stage or more. After the match the middle of the pack and even the slow shooters were all talking about how it felt to go faster, and how much fun they had.

 

One of the guys I was talking to pointed out that fast stages really lead to a compression of the times because there is a limit to how fast shooters can shoot. If a top shooter normally shoots 22 seconds the stage writer can lower his time to about 19-20 seconds, but a high thirties second shooter can see his drop to below 30 on the same stage. All things being equal the results will be the same on a fast stage as on a normal stage but if a top shooter bobbles a little bit and a middle of the pack shooter is steady the middle of the pack shooter has a better chance of beating the top shooter on a really fast stage.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bart... yes indeed, you are correct sir... But you miss the point.... even though we time things, IT IS NOT ABOUT TIME! It is about playing the game. No one likes time better than I. I've been very succussful at the time game, and am still very successful at it. My comments were about what the game use to be, and it was not about time.... it was about playing Cowboy. I would just like to see a "Little" bit of it come back into the game.

 

Snakebite

Link to post
Share on other sites

Snakebite, as I sort of said in my first post on this thread, I came to cowboy shooting to shoot, but I stay because of the people. If my fellow shooters are having fun, they are fun to be around. Phantom made the point that at large meets you have to have fast stages to make sure the match goes off quickly. That way people don't stand around waiting too long. The same can be said for larger clubs. A quickly moving posse is often a happy posse.

 

I don't necessarily find fast stages to be boring or "not fun." I think that as part of a good mix, a match filled with fast stages can be a hoot. It can give some of the middle of the pack shooters like me a chance to actually beat some of the really fast guys.

 

I guess my point is that we need to make sure every match is fun for all the shooters. I agree with those who say that variety is the spice of life. Some months up close and personal super fast "EOT" type stages are great. Other months stages requiring that we actually aim our rifles at small relatively distant targets can be great as well. All I ask is that the stages be fair and fun.

 

Anyway, I became a cowboy shooter to shoot cowboy guns, but I stay because I have fun with my cowboy shooting friends. When it stops being fun for me and my CAS pards, I will move along. I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I like fun stuff...on the clock and off.

 

It is COWBOY SHOOTING afterall :o

 

But Griff, while I wasn't "THERE" during the old days, I sat many times talking with China Camp and family at their home...with folks like Dastardly Dave and his Lovely wife Running Bare...and others...going through pictures and films...all sorts of things...hearing about the "Old Days".

 

Like laying upside down while shooting your rifle under a wagon...laying down in a bathtub to start a stage...etc, etc. Now has fun as that may be, it's gunna be pretty darn hard for many folks to complete safely.

 

:FlagAm:

Link to post
Share on other sites

I like fun stuff...on the clock and off.

 

It is COWBOY SHOOTING afterall :o

 

But Griff, while I wasn't "THERE" during the old days, I sat many times talking with China Camp and family at their home...with folks like Dastardly Dave and his Lovely wife Running Bare...and others...going through pictures and films...all sorts of things...hearing about the "Old Days".

 

Like laying upside down while shooting your rifle under a wagon...laying down in a bathtub to start a stage...etc, etc. Now has fun as that may be, it's gunna be pretty darn hard for many folks to complete safely.

 

:FlagAm:

 

No doubt that you got a great deal of insite from Dennis about the "Old Days". Please don't misunderstand me... I am NOT proposing that the entire game go back to the early days... that is just not going to happen. I just encourage the clubs to have some game playing stages in their monthy matchs, maybe even their annual match. Over the past 10 years I've had a fair amount of input on some major matches, and in each case I felt compelled to do exactly what you were saying. Due to the number of shooters, it would be very hard, if not impossible to get very heavy into game playing.... but it is something that the local club can do... even if it is only on one stage a month. Hey.... we had a stage where you had to build a Burrito in between each gun you shot! Shoot a handgun... run to the table and pull out a tortila, run to the next posistion and shoot the next handgun.... run back to the table and put some beans in the Burrito, then back to the next posistion for the rifle ... back to the table etc. Everyone laughed so hard that they cried. Even though we certainly timed it, it just did not make a damn who won the stage. Sure... something like that has no place at a major match that determines who will be the next Super Hero (for 15 min)... but as I said... it is fun at the local level.

 

Snakebite

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey.... we had a stage where you had to build a Burrito in between each gun you shot! Shoot a handgun... run to the table and pull out a tortila, run to the next posistion and shoot the next handgun.... run back to the table and put some beans in the Burrito, then back to the next posistion for the rifle ... back to the table etc. Everyone laughed so hard that they cried. Even though we certainly timed it, it just did not make a damn who won the stage. Sure... something like that has no place at a major match that determines who will be the next Super Hero (for 15 min)... but as I said... it is fun at the local level.

Snakebite

 

With all due respect - this type of thing is why cowboy does NOT appeal to so many shooters.

I came into this game at the very end of this kind of stuff and I can tell you if this had remained the norm, I would be long gone.

 

It is supposed to be about a GUNFIGHT, and no one builds a burrito during a gunfight (leastways no one who survives a gunfight).

I shot a stage where you "Had to keep your pancakes from burning", so between each gun, you had to return to the fire and flip your pancake three times. I'm thinking if I survived the Indian attack, I would just make some more pancakes when I was done.

 

I have never had an issue with doing anything that "makes sense" within the context of our competition.

I assume there were times that a cowboy had to shoot from under the wagon...

I assume there were times they had to haul their wounded partner to safety...

I assume there were times they had to roll out of bed...

Ok, I can live with the requirement to do that - it makes sense.

 

But I am willing to pert near guarantee,

no one continued making lunch while they were involved in a gunfight.

no one was cleaning and diapering a baby while they were involved in a gunfight.

no one hid their extra ammo in a bag of pinto beans so they could dig thru it while they were involved in a gunfight.

 

And local level monthly match or World Championship - If we are using a timer and keeping score, it means we do care who wins.

Link to post
Share on other sites

With all due respect - this type of thing is why cowboy does NOT appeal to so many shooters.

I came into this game at the very end of this kind of stuff and I can tell you if this had remained the norm, I would be long gone.

 

It is supposed to be about a GUNFIGHT, and no one builds a burrito during a gunfight (leastways no one who survives a gunfight).

<SNIP>

 

And local level monthly match or World Championship - If we are using a timer and keeping score, it means we do care who wins.

 

This is wrong on too many levels to enumerate - but . . . .

 

IPSC started out trying to be about the "Gunfight", and ultimately failed.

IDPA is trying to be about the "Gunfight" and is failing . . .

Cowboy Action Shooting was about NOT being about the "Gunfight" and had success . . .

 

If you think CAS is in anyway about the "Gunfight" you're are wrong - most of what is done is CAS is contraindicated . . .

it is negative training at best . . But it is fun.

 

If you think your CAS shooting is in any way training for a real gun fight - please ask any of the LEO's here to

edumacate you on this .. . . CAS is a fantasy game that involves re-enacting a lot of cool stuff we saw in movies

and TV in the 50's and 60's . . . . period.

 

I may be wrong about this . .but I'm willing to risk that . . . .

 

Shadow Catcher

Link to post
Share on other sites

Because they're not the same sport. What you described isn't Wild Bunch Action Shooting, it's Cowboy Action Shooting with a 1911. You can do it all you want but, it's not Wild Bunch. WBAS is SUPPOSED to be much more challenging; longer ranges/smaller targets, more reactive targets that need to be thumped with a large caliber bullet from both pistol and rifle, more movement between guns, more rounds downrange, etc. You don't run a NASCAR race on an NHRA drag strip and you don't shoot a Wild Bunch match on Cowboy stages. Go read the Wild Bunch Shooter's Handbook, it's right there in black and white.

 

 

Boy if this is true it makes me darned mad. SASS used to be all you say that WB is supposed to be, but somehow the folks who shoot SASS are now supposed to be too old, unable or unwilling to shoot smaller /long range targets with big guns, have movement, reactive targets and high round counts. For years SASS has denied and po-pood alligations that the sport was being simplified; all requests for more challanging stages and major clibers were howeled down as not being good for the sport, not possible and not popular. But now, instead of making SASS more challanging, they abandon it to mediocrity and start something else, where, wonder of wonders, many of the same folks who can't be bothered or expected to shoot harder SASS stages somehow meraculously improve their shooting skills, become more mobile and love them. It makes me wonder who we have to petition to get a SAA catigory in WB. It sounds like what SASS used to be in the old days and a heck of a lot more fun!

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is wrong on too many levels to enumerate - but . . . .

 

If you think your CAS shooting is in any way training for a real gun fight - please ask any of the LEO's here to

edumacate you on this .. . . CAS is a fantasy game that involves re-enacting a lot of cool stuff we saw in movies

and TV in the 50's and 60's . . . . period.

 

I may be wrong about this . .but I'm willing to risk that . . . .

 

Shadow Catcher

 

Did I say ANYTHING about training for a "real gunfight"?

I am a firearms instructor, I'm pretty well informed about tactics and "real gunfights".

For real gunfights, I train with my social firearms. AR's, 870's and XD's.

 

Single action revolvers and lever action rifles?

These are my play guns.

But at the end of the day, it is not a re-enactment, not a fantasy, not an homage to the movies.

It is a shooting competition.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, well for some of us it is a shooting competition. For us also-rans it is a fantasy world we escape to on week-ends. Too much of the goofy stuff has disappeared from our game. That stuff is what makes and made a unique shooting game. But it's all good. We have a big tent in CAS and most of us enjoy everything about it, scenarios, goofy stuff (on or off the clock) and the competition.

 

I remember having to dive under the buckboard and shoot the rifle prone. I could still do it and still enjoy it but only if there was a saddle blanket or tarp to lay on. It would definitely take me LOTS longer to get back up these days and the time would suffer, but like I say -- it's ALL good.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Texas Jack Black

Bull!

 

It's not a "Quest for speed". The fact is that the membership is aging and would have a hell of a time doing many of the things that were done back in the 80's and 90's. The shear volume of shooters at big matches has gone up dramatically and there simply isn't time to have 60 second stages (run by Top Shooters...which would equate to about 120 second stages for the lower 3rd of the pack).

 

:FlagAm:

 

 

So you say there is not a QUEST for speed?? and you seem to be worrying about just the TOP SHOOTERS again . Your reply seems to also suggest a dumbing down of the game.

Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of things can be changed simply by a grassroots type movement. All who yearn for the "old day" I suggest you get crackin. Things don't get done by sitting on the fence and talking about it. If the general membership wants it they will follow you, or maybe not. I've been hearing about all the bad stuff happening to the game for the last 10 years, also been hearing about this return to "the way it was" for about the same time. Show up at your local club and offer to write stages, or better yet start up a new club. Nothing will change unless you do something about it. My personal experience as someone who has produced and helped produce tons of matches is that the loudest do the least. What's funny is that come Fri night, you've got a bunch of guys ranging from 30-70 texting and calling and talking trash to each other because they can't wait to get to the match Saturday morning to have as much fun as they did last week. I feel bad for those that can't find that kind of experience in the game.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So you say there is not a QUEST for speed?? and you seem to be worrying about just the TOP SHOOTERS again . Your reply seems to also suggest a dumbing down of the game.

 

You're comprehension skills are slipping.

 

Most competitors (Top or otherwise) are looking to run stages as fast as THEY can...but as stage design goes towards the harder...smaller...farther type, it hurts the lower 1/3rd of the shooters much more then the top 1/3rd and seperates the "Top" shooters from the "Non-Top" by a larger margin.

 

If you were actively involved in this game you'd know that...and the stage design does not have to be "Dumbed Down" as you put it...which frankly is a stoopid catch-all phrase that without specifics is meaningless...but perhaps sounds "Above it all" to you.

 

:wacko:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Phantom

 

+1

 

When times compress a top competitor's miss becomes very significant for the middle of the pack shooter who remains clean. Beating a top competitor every once in a while is pretty encouraging for a middle of the pack guy trying to improve.

 

Anyway, I thought this thread was based on the false premise that nobody wants to shoot cowboy anymore. Earlier this month at Powder Creek we had a great turnout. The Rocky Branch Rangers, after a rough year or so, are definately seeing better and better attendance. I keep reading that the big matches are still drawing good crowds. Does anybody have real statistics indicating a drop in monthly attendance across the nation?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Like I said... we have fun on the occasional stage at the local match. You might not believe this, but there are actually a few people who play this game that have been around other shooting games, and are actually professional shooting instructors... yep.. we are not all "Babes in the Woods"... in fact,there might just be a former national IPSC Champion playing the game. Anyone who thinks this game is ONLY a shooting sport, does not understand the game, even though they may be a excellent shooter. When I was doing TV spots for the game many years ago, one of my favorite lines was. "If you can get yourself into a 5 yr old mentallity, then you will love this game". And guess what? Tons of people fell right into that mentllity, and we had a ball. I'm still having fun.

 

Bottom line... if you enjoy... then do it... if you don't then do something that you enjoy.

 

Snakebite

Link to post
Share on other sites

Boy if this is true it makes me darned mad. SASS used to be all you say that WB is supposed to be, but somehow the folks who shoot SASS are now supposed to be too old, unable or unwilling to shoot smaller /long range targets with big guns, have movement, reactive targets and high round counts. For years SASS has denied and po-pood alligations that the sport was being simplified; all requests for more challanging stages and major clibers were howeled down as not being good for the sport, not possible and not popular. But now, instead of making SASS more challanging, they abandon it to mediocrity and start something else, where, wonder of wonders, many of the same folks who can't be bothered or expected to shoot harder SASS stages somehow meraculously improve their shooting skills, become more mobile and love them. It makes me wonder who we have to petition to get a SAA catigory in WB. It sounds like what SASS used to be in the old days and a heck of a lot more fun!

 

 

Doc, you hit the nail on the head in so many ways I can't even count. The only thing I'd quibble about is your statement about abandoning Cowboy to mediocrity. True, it's not what it once was but, it's still one of the finest shooting sports on the planet.

 

My suggestion would be to realize that Wild Bunch contains exactly the type of scenarios you used to see in CAS. If you like that type of shooting, go for it. You won't be sorry. (But remember, go to a REAL Wild Bunch match, not a Cowboy Action Shooting match that uses 1911s. ;) )

Link to post
Share on other sites

Aye, Phantom, we did those things. But... not every stage was like that... we had some quick and dirty stages, some shot with just one or two guns... all fun. Trying to go as fast as you can has always been part of the game... "dumbed down" ain't even how I'd describe some of the subtle changes. For, in truth, the basic structure is still the same. The devil is in the details. I think I'm lucky in that, in my part of Texas where I generally (if seldom) get to shoot we still have movement and challenges, not always, but often enough that it still feels like the same game. (I know some disagree with me). Target distances & sizes are varied and often even in the same stage... (we do however seem to keep sweeps and orders fairly similar within a stage). Other places I've been seem to have gotten locked into 10-10-4 and remaining pretty motionless. That ain't my idea of fun cowboy shootin'. I can do that in my back yard, but then I can set up stages and run them any way I want... only my imagination and props limit me. But, as you know, I love the social aspects as much as the shootin'... the not-so-gentle ribbin' Duece describes is a huge part of the comraderie that can exist... the congratulations for a clean stage or match, the shocked silence when I shoot under 30 seconds! The personality of clubs change from site to site, mostly likely a reflection of the folks involved. And even when I've not felt quite the same feel at a place, I recognize that those folks were still having fun... and ain't that really the important part?

 

Like Snakebite said, we don't have to have those things on every stage, but once in a while would be good. One of my favorite memories is shooting out of a barber's chair with the big ol' bib around yer neck, hangin down over yer knees! That bib had more'n a few holes in it by the end of the day... Most folks slung it back over their shoulder and commenced to hit steel... but more'n a few just pulled up their pistol and plugged away; sorta "Outlaw style", long before anyone called it "Outlaw"! I ain't even old yet, and I still recognize that I don't get up or down quite as easily as I used to... but, there are and have always been ways to accomodate a competitor's physical challenges without removing the challenge for everyone else.

 

Some of the subtle changes that should (IMO) be made some places to put some challenge back into the game: target size and distance don't ALWAYS have to set at the SASS minimum. Target spacing doesn't have remain constant... target size doesn't have to remain the same for all targets in a particular sequence. Just because I'm a bottom third shooter doesn't mean I wouldn't enjoy a challenge in my shooting. Setting that last rifle shot back at 50 yards and making it a 10" square isn't going to affect my score one way or another... if I'm missin' 16" targets at 23 yards, what's one more miss? But... maybe I'll just bear down a lil' more and actually try to hit the damn thing instead of assuming I'll have any better chance of hittin' the "easier shot" at 23 yards. And if, wonder of wonders, I actually hit it and the pard with the fastest time (probably that Justin character) happens to miss it... I get some braggin' rights, no? And does it matter one whit if my time for the stage is still 3 times the length of his, even with his miss? Nope, 'cause I'm a bottom 1/3 shooter and until I start practicin' on more'n a semi-annual basis, I'm likely to remain there. ^_^

 

The argument that a middle of the pack shooter might beat a top gun is pure... well, let's just call it "speculation"... the only time that's likely is if the top gun has had a train wreck of a stage... and where's the true sportmanship in that?

 

Anyway, here's hopin' I can get this weekend off, and get in one of those semi-annual "practice" sessions in at CVCC! I'd hate to think that I might fall into that "...you oughta participate more category!" Even if I do! :ph34r:

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

This post is exactly why I need to remind myself not to reply to anything on the wire.

 

I sure get tired of "if you don't like it, go start another sport", and, "It's not like the old days".

 

Guess what folks? - It's NEVER going to be like the old days and they don't make '68 Cameros anymore either.

 

Some of us need to get over whatever kick we're on at the moment and shoot, or don't, but one thing is for sure, NOTHING ever got fixed on this wire.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If Wild Bunch is the answer why are we not seeing more participation at the stand alone Wild Bunch events? Fact is you won't see the kind of participation that you see with "regular" cowboy shooting. My wife has no desire to shoot a handgun with a 150 power factor. Can she, yes and quite well, but she has not desire to do it for 10 stages. Time will tell. Right now it's a simple recipe, matches that bring entertainment to the shooter still do well. Proof is in the numbers and the repeatability of those numbers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Got hooked in 06 when i traveled to EOT after finding CAS on the web, just booked a plane and went relying on my GPS. Met some great folks and have been back 3 more times and shot the main match. I have tried to start a club here in Northern Ireland but when most guys shoot PP it is not easy, but we are trying. Match before last i designed and ran the shoot all went well untill after the match we had a meeting to discuss how to move forward. The suggestion that paper targets as well as steel was raised and i pointed out that they should be steel but i was told it was to get the PP shooters interested. This is not the way it should be as we dont have Practical Cowboy, because that is what will happen if we start. The next shoot date was emailed to me and when i asked if paper targets where going to be used yes was the reply, so myself and my good lady did not attend ( and will not) shoot. I later heard that one guy shot it with a 1911 clone (he has a pair of single actions)and when i voiced this with a committe member he told me that 1911 where used in CAS, I informed him only in Wild Bunch.

This is a minority sport here with just about 15 people in all of Ireland

So my point is keep it CAS dont change it until no one recognizes it at all

Link to post
Share on other sites

Did I say ANYTHING about training for a "real gunfight"?

I am a firearms instructor, I'm pretty well informed about tactics and "real gunfights".

For real gunfights, I train with my social firearms. AR's, 870's and XD's.

 

Single action revolvers and lever action rifles?

These are my play guns.

But at the end of the day, it is not a re-enactment, not a fantasy, not an homage to the movies.

It is a shooting competition.

Line three of your previous entry made the statement: "It is supposed to be about a GUNFIGHT, and no one builds a burrito during a gunfight (leastways no one who survives a gunfight)."

 

If that isn't what you meant - at least explain the disconnect. I contend - this is a game about playing at cowboy - as we saw in TV and the movies . . . .

If you are adding the constraint to the game we PLAY that it must be logical and consistent with how you'd run a gun fight - you are contradicting yourself.

It's either a fantasy game and logic is not a requirement - or it is a logically consistent game and must follow rules for winning a gunfight (as you stipulate).

 

Yes - It's a shooting competition - and as long as it has A set of rules it will remain one. They don't have to satisfy your idea of a good set of rules for

a gunfight as you'd like it to be though, they only have to be rules that every competitor can follow safely.

 

BTW - I've got over 20 years as an NRA instructor, and worked for any number of other professional instructors teaching the gun as well, and I've also been a professional

engineer for the last 30+ years. In all that time I've met a lot of folks who confuse having credentials with being right . . . so how about we accept that both of us are

reasonably well informed about tactics and combat mindset and leave that off the table - it is an absolutely irrelevant issue w/r/t the game and how it's played.

 

I agree in part - it is a shooting competition - but where we differ is that I believe it is a shooting competition predicated on being a re-enactment, a fantasy, and an homage to the movies.

 

The wonderful thing about this game is that it will go on, for a while at least, irrespective of either of our opinions . . . . at least - as long as we get new shooters

to join in by making it fun for them and also - by making it known to them, otherwise it will die a sad death in about 20 years . . . . .

 

I'm heading back to the Saloon now - Deja got spun up about something and I need to go have a laugh . .

 

Ride safe . . .

 

Shadow Catcher

Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the added spice of Wild Bunch, Military Bolts, Long Range, Cowboy Trap, etc. with my main course of Cowboy Shooting. Makes the side matches at the Annuals very special.

 

Side Matches at annual shoots are very special to me as well. Our club has an annual shoot this October that offers over 26 free side matches and you can bet every side match is well attended. By offering 12 main match Cowboy Action Stages and a very wide assortment of side matches, our little 4-day shoot draws a host of shooters interested in Cowboy Action Shooting main match stages and a chance to use the old military bolt actions, single shot long range guns and just about every other "cowboy" type gun you own, or borrow!

 

Go to a 4-day shoot and shoot around 700 rounds! You'll be glad you did.

 

Just George

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.