Gary Norsk Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Rulebook says hammer down so is it down on firing pin or down on safe?? Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Draw Granpaw #48525 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 All the way down, depressing the firing pin. Thats what our club requires. Happy trails QDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickamauga Charlie, SASS #47963 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 all the way down or a SDQ gave my wife one yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hud Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 all the way down or a SDQ gave my wife one yesterday. OUCH, how was THAT ride home? Or did you walk? hud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Hi Gary, You've already got the correct answer. "Hammer down – hammer fully down at its final resting position." This definition is in the ROI booklet's glossary. I find it easiest to find answers to questions by using a search in the on-line booklets. Click on the binocular icon. Happy Trails! Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cinch, SASS#29433 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 all the way down or a SDQ gave my wife one yesterday. Yikes!! Was it a big match? Is she an experienced shooter? Did you let her shoot the stage and then DQ? Couldn't correct it at the the line with an admonition? I once read the RO materials where it says "don't be a hard ass" Where was the advantage? What was unsafe? Sometimes I wonder if this rule shouldn't be placed in front of the perennial "empty round on the carrier" which gets brought up at every SASS Convention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Couldn't correct it at the the line with an admonition? I once read the RO materials where it says "don't be a hard ass" And then her competitor on another posse does the same thing and gets a DQ. What's fair about that? Evenhanded enforcement of the proper penalty for an unequivocal rule violation should never be considered being a hard ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cinch, SASS#29433 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 And then her competitor on another posse does the same thing and gets a DQ. What's fair about that? Evenhanded enforcement of the proper penalty for an unequivocal rule violation should never be considered being a hard ass. Yea I bet that woulda happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickamauga Charlie, SASS #47963 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Yikes!! Was it a big match? Is she an experienced shooter? Did you let her shoot the stage and then DQ? Couldn't correct it at the the line with an admonition? I once read the RO materials where it says "don't be a hard ass" Where was the advantage? What was unsafe? Sometimes I wonder if this rule shouldn't be placed in front of the perennial "empty round on the carrier" which gets brought up at every SASS Convention it wasnt a big match but it wouldnt have mattered. she's been shooting for some 10 years i guess. i showed it to her, DQ'd her and let her shoot it for no time. i should have saved the ammo cause she was rattled, but you know what it wont happen again and it sure wont happen at WR next week. my job is to apply the same rules to everyone everytime or cheat every other shooter on the range. thats the way i do it and thats the way i teach it. to make matters worse the shooter before her set down a cocked loaded pistol and i had to DQ him and that distracted her from following the correct loading procedures so i had to get two in a row. Hud, i thought about eating at the Bing last nite to ensure my food wasnt poisoned. just kidding. she knows the rule and you know she takes it in stride. CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Chris Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 A shooter should never blame the TO for calling a clear penalty on them or consider that being a hard-ass. I may not agree with the rule, but I know the rule, and if I break it and get called for it that's on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nota John, SASS #51089L Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 How would you call this one. I shoot a Win 94, last version with the tang mounted hammer block safety, with rebounding hammer. The hammer rests about a quarter inch away from the firing pin extension after rebounding. The only way the hammer can move forward is to press the trigger AND have the lever depressing the trigger release pin on the lower tang. Obviously the 94 does not pass the " Hammer down on the firing pin"? So therefore this is not legal by the rule book? Kindly advise. Nota John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickamauga Charlie, SASS #47963 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 get a Marlin! just kidding, i had to get mine out of the safe for inspection. (its a 3030 and not used for sass) i would call that OAD (operates as designed) and no call as it is the final resting position. CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cinch, SASS#29433 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 it wasnt a big match but it wouldnt have mattered. she's been shooting for some 10 years i guess. i showed it to her, DQ'd her and let her shoot it for no time. i should have saved the ammo cause she was rattled, but you know what it wont happen again and it sure wont happen at WR next week. my job is to apply the same rules to everyone everytime or cheat every other shooter on the range. thats the way i do it and thats the way i teach it. CC Ah... motives... Our matches are a little less formal I guess but we have diligent loading table folks, try to learn at monthlies and we can go seasons without any of the things we see on the wire (I am a wonderful instructor ). I have shown my crew to never put a round in without making double sure the gun is ready to load. I don't think any of our shooters feel slighted when we advise or help folks out during or matches. The rules are definitely the rules at big matches which is why we learn stuff at our monthly matches... Good Luck at WR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nota John, SASS #51089L Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 get a Marlin! just kidding, i had to get mine out of the safe for inspection. (its a 3030 and not used for sass) i would call that OAD (operates as designed) and no call as it is the final resting position. CC Was waiting for a Marlin or '73 comment. Thanks for the clarification. Nota John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 How would you call this one. I shoot a Win 94, last version with the tang mounted hammer block safety, with rebounding hammer. The hammer rests about a quarter inch away from the firing pin extension after rebounding. The only way the hammer can move forward is to press the trigger AND have the lever depressing the trigger release pin on the lower tang. Obviously the 94 does not pass the " Hammer down on the firing pin"? So therefore this is not legal by the rule book? Kindly advise. Nota John Yep, Chicamauga Charlie is correct. Since there's only the two positions, at rest and full cock; it's a no call on the 94AE with rebounding hammer... which started about serial number 5.5million and continues up to current production by Miroku. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubious Don #56333 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Here's what the "SASS rules" say; Changing location or leaving the designated loading area with a cocked gun/gun w/hammer down on live round Cocked is anything other than "down" If the natural down or resting position of the hammer on your 94 is a quarter inch from the firing pin then it is "down". If it is on the safety notch, which would be the first click when you begin to pull the hammer back, then it is NOT down. Of course, disregard if you shoot at a club that likes to add their own versions to SASS rules then you better ask. How would you call this one. I shoot a Win 94, last version with the tang mounted hammer block safety, with rebounding hammer. The hammer rests about a quarter inch away from the firing pin extension after rebounding. The only way the hammer can move forward is to press the trigger AND have the lever depressing the trigger release pin on the lower tang. Obviously the 94 does not pass the " Hammer down on the firing pin"? So therefore this is not legal by the rule book? Kindly advise. Nota John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 A shooter should never blame the TO for calling a clear penalty on them or consider that being a hard-ass. I may not agree with the rule, but I know the rule, and if I break it and get called for it that's on me. Yep. It's not being a hard ass for making clear calls. I had to SDQ a Lady at tht SW Regional this last year for it. Sure hated to. Be not fair to the other shooter not to. You can not let this stuff go at big matches like you can a little monthly. And it was gone over in the saftey briefing that mourning. She took it VERY VERY good. She understood and so did her husband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nota John, SASS #51089L Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Thanks to all for the replies. Just wanted to get opinions in case I ever have a " Hard-nose " say that the hammer MUST be against the firing pin, which of course could not happen due to the design. Will carry a copy of this topic in my cart, just in case. Again, thanks to all. Nota John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangler Rich SASS #42157 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 CC, I probably will get a lot of heat for this, but since you obviously know the rules, why were you timing her? WR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 CC, I probably will get a lot of heat for this, but since you obviously know the rules, why were you timing her? WR Howdy WR, FYI - There is NO RULE re: running the timer for a family member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Thanks to all for the replies. Just wanted to get opinions in case I ever have a " Hard-nose " say that the hammer MUST be against the firing pin, which of course could not happen due to the design. Will carry a copy of this topic in my cart, just in case. Again, thanks to all. Nota John I'd carry a copy of the "Glossary of Terms" from the ROI...show 'em in "black & white" EXACTLY what the rule says & where it can be found. Hammer down – hammer fully down at its final resting position. ROI p.31 (very last page) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangler Rich SASS #42157 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Thanks PWB.... I guess I need a refresher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Thanks PWB.... I guess I need a refresher. Yer name has been added to "the list". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indian Jack. Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 a a local match a few weeks ago a "very experienced shooter" called my friend for NOT having his rifle hammer on the half cock position as he was setting his rifle down at the rifle position on the stage. he didnt SDQ him but told him to put it on the half cock position before he started shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 a a local match a few weeks ago a "very experienced shooter" called my friend for NOT having his rifle hammer on the half cock position as he was setting his rifle down at the rifle position on the stage. he didnt SDQ him but told him to put it on the half cock position before he started shooting. email his alias to me...he's gonna get added as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indian Jack. Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Lets just call him "Very Experienced Shooter" and let it go at that...this way all the "fast and knowledgeaable shooters" might take a second look at themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Lets just call him "Very Experienced Shooter" and let it go at that...this way all the "fast and knowledgeaable shooters" might take a second look at themselves. You've gotta be kinding...???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indian Jack. Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 kidding about what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 kidding about what? Making such a silly statement. Everyone should be aware of the fact that they need to keep up on the rules and be open to being corrected. Coming out and making such a blanket statement about a singular segment of OUR game is bizzare and seems to indicate a slight bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Lets just call him "Very Experienced Shooter" and let it go at that...this way all the "fast and knowledgeaable shooters" might take a second look at themselves. well then...tell him for me that if he advises anyone to do that at the loading table at a match where SASS rules are enforced, SOMEONE is going to get a SDQ. (the clarification re: hammer on the safety notch was made many years ago) btw - "fast" ain't got nothing to do with it...and the "knowledgeable" ones KNOW better (by definition). (& THAT's being kind) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indian Jack. Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Did I strike a nerve? I was not talking about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indian Jack. Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I did not direct that at you Palewolf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I did not direct that at you Palewolf. Figgered as much from the time stamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEAD BANE, SASS 70197 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Hey Phantom, I read a post on another thread by Red River Ray. It said, "Never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to thier level and beat you with experience". Dont let them drag you down my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Hey Phantom, I read a post on another thread by Red River Ray. It said, "Never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to thier level and beat you with experience". Dont let them drag you down my friend. LB, I used to surreptitiously post THIS LINK in the middle of a frustratingly futile discussion. (from one of my G'Pa's frequent sayings) Them what it was aimed at likely never caught on. Ain't used THIS ONE in a long time neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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