hud Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 thank ya, thank ya kindly hud (Mr. Brilliant) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goliath, SASS #41359 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 LB, I used to surreptitiously post THIS LINK in the middle of a frustratingly futile discussion. (from one of my G'Pa's frequent sayings) Them what it was aimed at likely never caught on. Ain't used THIS ONE in a long time neither. These are great, PWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfego, SASS #50493 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 ??????? If there is no round under the hammer, how is it unsafe? What am I missing about the 1894 Cowboy? When there is no round under the hammer it is not unsafe but there is potential for a cartridge to be chambered and if that happens putting the hammer down could be unsafe. We are developing habits - good or bad. I purchased my first Marlin a 39A "Mountie" back in the early 60s and have 'always' carried it and the other Marlins and Winchesters that i have owned with the hammer on half cock or 'safety notch'. Recently i have been forced to carry with the hammer down at our cowboy shoots. I dont think that is smart or safe idea. No safety is 100% but the only deer i got using my 30-30 winchester 94 was when i had a cartridge chambered and the hammer on half-cock. If i carried the 94 with a empty chamber the deer would have won. What we do at SASS has implications elsewhere. elfego Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 No safety is 100% but the only deer i got using my 30-30 winchester 94 was when i had a cartridge chambered and the hammer on half-cock. If i carried the 94 with a empty chamber the deer would have won. What we do at SASS has implications elsewhere. elfego I'm not following the logic of this. CAS targets don't run off (even when you're shooting at them) so there's no reason to start with round in the chamber. And I bet you don't hunt deer with a dozen or so guys standing close by. Different worlds, different rules and safety issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Uhhhh...this is CAS...it's not training for combat...it's not SWAT training...it's not hunting... Are we, gun owners, so simple minded that we can't handle variation???? God...I hope we aren't. Cheers! Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Back to the rule at hand. The hammer on the rifle not being all the way down when the shooter leaves the loading table is probably the most abused rule in the sport with the largest penalty-a stage DQ. Just this month at two different monthly matches I saw two ROs tell two shooters to lower their hammer on their rifle after they staged it on a prop. After both shooters were finished unloading, I quietly talked to both shooters and told them if someone else was running the timer they would have probably gotten a SDQ and had clearly earned it. They were very embarrassed as they both knew the rule and just screwed up. Since I was not a posse officer at the time, I thought a private word would be better than nothing. We are not doing anyone a favor in "just a monthly match" giving shooters a break like this. The rules are there to be followed. Don't like the rule, work to change it. In the mean time follow the rules even at "just a monthly match". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cole Younger Requlator Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 ""When there is no round under the hammer it is not unsafe but there is potential for a cartridge to be chambered and if that happens putting the hammer down could be unsafe. We are developing habits - good or bad"" I think I'm missing something here...it sounds like you are saying the gun becomes dangerous as soon as a cartridge is put in the magazine. As long as the lever is not operated- there is NO way the gun goes bang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aint Dunit, SASS #71048L Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 PHANTOM u is the ruddes person I know beltchn fartn and scratchn all over the us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 PHANTOM u is the ruddes person I know beltchn fartn and scratchn all over the us Rude...you don't know the meaning of rude!!!! And comin from you...I take that as a complement!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJT Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 It is a rule. No one seems to have heartache about the revolver version which is the same, hammer all the way down, not on any of the other various notches. Still, when I saw the line about a rifle hammer all the way down being safe if the chamber was empty, I could not help but think that the hammer fully cocked is safe if the chamber is empty. Further, I could not help but think, the rule is there (against it being fully cocked) in case there was a round in the chamber on acciddent. Hmmmmmm....... Cheers All, BJT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 It is so refreshing to shoot at monthly matches where it is "less formal" as Cinch would say. Where 98% of the pards never leave their clubs back yard. Yep, SASS rules are basically followed(vast, vast majority) , which goes against the grain on this threat. I know,, I know. The RO or MD can hand out the penalty to the only person in that catagory for a rifle that comes to the line on a safety notch or on a 73, that lacks that last little skoch of being 'fully' down. Or he can politely inform the shooter of the error of his ways. Either way, the shooter wins the catagory and will never shoot at the bigger matches. Either way, I haven't seen the shooter do the same mistake twice, or at least at that match. The same less formal monthly matches have been know to, on rare occassions, end the stage on a rifle. Just for variety. Funny, the timer has picked up all the shoots. Funny, no one cared either about the timer not picking up the last shot. They were there to have fun, have some variety in stage descriptions. I liked it cause it introduced new gun transitioning that I had to consider. Yep, rules are rules and must be followed. Just a view from my pasture. Blastmaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Graham, # 26112 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I know in some parts of the country the loading table doesn't have an "official" monitor. If the guy or gal next to you asks you to take a look at the pistols before they holster, take an extra second and glance at their rifle while you are at it. I only RO for/am RO'd by my Wonnerful Hubby if it's really going to cause a delay to get someone else. It's OK in the rules, but sucks in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concho Billy Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 That's fine...if that's the way you see it. I'm glad I jumped you for such a silly statement. And Concho Billy, my statement's Rudeness was proportional and appropriate for the statement that I was responding to. Phantom, I am finally home and just wanted to say this........I posted my statement in reply to Lead Bane's statement about arguing with idiots........I never thought that name calling was appropiate just because you disagree with someone. And then he tried to make me out as a person who only shoots two times a year.......and thereby I don't know anything and should listen to more knowledgable shooters. I am slow, but then I only shoot against myself trying to improve each time.......I like to travel and shoot the game, I don't need to be the fastest or always win a buckle......I'm sure you shoot for another reason, or maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Phantom, I am finally home and just wanted to say this........I posted my statement in reply to Lead Bane's statement about arguing with idiots........I never thought that name calling was appropiate just because you disagree with someone. And then he tried to make me out as a person who only shoots two times a year.......and thereby I don't know anything and should listen to more knowledgable shooters. I am slow, but then I only shoot against myself trying to improve each time.......I like to travel and shoot the game, I don't need to be the fastest or always win a buckle......I'm sure you shoot for another reason, or maybe not. I support your right to enjoy this game any way you want (within the rules of course). That's the funny thing about Indian Jack's comment as it was pointed directly at a segment of our Game...and frankly...I hate it when folks feel it necessary to point out a segment and then imply that they are somehow in need of special attention. Cheers!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indian Jack. Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 how bout this...you are right...I give up...you win... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Please add me to the list.A bazillion years ago a loading table officer reached over and set the hammer of my '73 all the way down after I had inadvertently left it on the 'safety cock' notch. ... This is just one of the many reasons why I never operate the timer. It ain't an infraction of the rule UNTIL the rifle is moved from the loading table... I'd say the LTO did you agood turn. And FWIW, given what I've read that you've posted here & other places... That's our loss. I feel you'd be a great TO/RO. Way back in the dark ages many of us came to the line with the rifle hammer at full cock, chamber empty. We were all shooting bone stock Rossi 92s and Win 94s. No action jobs. The things were clunky and this made it easier to cock for the first shot. We all knew the chambers were empty and no one had any heart burn about it. This is kinda like the SASS rule about muzzle up carry of 2row shotguns. I would hope the vote was not unanimous. How can a hammer all the way down on the firing pin be safer than a hammer at the safety notch? orwellian. up is down. war is peace. We have met the enemy and he is us. Don't know when your "dark ages" were, but from the 1997 rule book, pg 24: 18. All firearms must remain uncocked or unloaded whenever the shooter changes shooting location during a stage. I can only speak from 1985 onward, from CA to TX & OK, every club I've shot at had range rules which required revolvers and rifles to be loaded with the hammer down on an empty chamber. Admittedly, that might only represent 7 or 8 clubs, but there just weren't many more up thru 1995. Well in my opinion, people who only shoot two shoots at thier club since january 2010 should do less talkin on the wire and spend more time going to shoots. Heck with a little practice they might even finish above the middle of the pack. Might even try asking one of those "Fast and Knowledgeable" shooters IJ was tryin to ridicule for a few pointers. Oh? It may be that I ain't shot but 2 times at my club in that time. That is neither a measure of my interest, enjoyment or knowledge of the game, nor a really a good measure of my skill. It is, sadly, only a reflection of my opportunity. Even a persons ranking at the end of a match ain't necessarily a good indication of their skillset Mine needs improvement, as I INTENDED to finish last on Saturday. Missed it by two! Many, many years ago I set out to win my category at EOT, missed that goal by two also. But there were times before and after that attempt where I prevailed over both those individuals. Methinks you presume much. But, that malarky aside, come on down to TX and shoot at our 20th Annual Match, Roundup - 2011... I promise not to practice between now & then, if you can't beat me AND I can't make you laugh outloud, I'll pay yer entry fee! The written word is a very difficult medium in which to express tone, inflection & emphasis. Sometimes even our intent can become jumbled. Some of us even need our hands to communicate effectively, you know... hand gestures. It's as possible to learn something from the least experienced as it is from the most experienced. If we're willing. When there is no round under the hammer it is not unsafe but there is potential for a cartridge to be chambered and if that happens putting the hammer down could be unsafe. We are developing habits - good or bad.I purchased my first Marlin a 39A "Mountie" back in the early 60s and have 'always' carried it and the other Marlins and Winchesters that i have owned with the hammer on half cock or 'safety notch'. Recently i have been forced to carry with the hammer down at our cowboy shoots. I dont think that is smart or safe idea. No safety is 100% but the only deer i got using my 30-30 winchester 94 was when i had a cartridge chambered and the hammer on half-cock. If i carried the 94 with a empty chamber the deer would have won. What we do at SASS has implications elsewhere. elfego I understand exactly what you're saying. But IMO, you're wrong. I hunt with my leverguns also, and the SASS rule makes me NO less safe. Closing the action and dropping the hammer all the way before I load is exactly the procedure I use whether at the SASS loading table or the hunting camp. The time between when I chamber a round and drop the hammer into the safety notch nevers exceeds the time in which I might forget what I'm doing. The time between loading & chambering might only be minutes or it could be hours. Let's face it, this ain't a recent CHANGE, but maybe it was simply a codification of a recognized safe loading practice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Griff, this was 1996 when we used to shoot at Amarillo. Don't remember seeing you there. I distinctly remember doing it. And I was not the only one. Don't rightly recall when RO I came into being but none of us were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Griff, this was 1996 when we used to shoot at Amarillo. Don't remember seeing you there. I distinctly remember doing it. And I was not the only one. Don't rightly recall when RO I came into being but none of us were. I got laid off in mid-'95 and had to make a choice between mounted or pedestrian, er... standin' on my own hind feet. IIRC, didn't Tascosa Joe & TuTreSixes start that club? Be late '94 or early '95. TTSixes lived up in Clarendon and Joe'd been transferred to Amarillo... hazy those days... Before that there only LSFSC, THSS & Texas Peacemakers, who formed in '93. OKC Gun Club formed their cowboy group in '90 or '91; drivin' 400 miles fo a monthly wasn't in the budget. Heck after 4 years runnin', even Raton got cut from the annual schedule. But... now that I've thunk for a coupla more hours... And for that matter, I remember doin' stuff that'd get us MDQd today. Didn't make it within the rules, or even safe. I do STR not penalizing folks for cockin' the rifle if it started the stage in hand. I'd comment about gaminess... but the gun came to the line with the hammer down. I'd quote from our range regulations back then, but I don't have that word processor and Word won't open it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Charlie, SASS # 48668L Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 ONLY on the wire could a question be answered on the 1st post, carry on to be 2 pages long, and end in arguments. See Charlie? I'm being BRILLIANT again hud Hud...When I get bored, this is the kind of thread I look for. One with a simple question and then three pages behind it. I just know there's gotta be some feathers flying in there somewhere. Cascade Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 A few of the founders of the Canadian River Regulators are still active. Steeldust Dan has badge #1 and hasn't changed a bit. He chimes in here quite often, maybe he will see this and expound on the history of the CRR. Capshaw, Capshaw Kate, J. J. Richochet and Donna Darling all still shoot. Capshaw is one I distinctly remember coming to the line hammer back. Two Tre Sixes had to hang up his guns most a decade ago. Ole Walter does not get around too good these days. He still puts in an appearance at our annual to shake hands and chew the fat a little. Has to use a cane and can not stand long. Still lives in Clarendon which is where we had to move our shoot to when the Amarillo range went under. Tascosa Joe I ne'er heered of. Did you ever make it to our annual in Amarillo -- "Gunfight at Old Tascosa"? 97 thru 2000. Back then there weren't many annuals and folks came from far and wide. The ER clan came down, HT warn't no bigger'n a minute. Frenchy, Dallas and Miss Hattie, Palo Duro Kid, Hemlock, Horsefly, on and on. Those were the glory days for the Regulators -- we were in way over our heads but it sure was fun. Pull that rig in to the Bar H sometime, we'll be right proud to have ye and any and everybody, y'all all come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 -- we were in way over our heads but it sure was fun... Aye, I know THAT feeling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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