important (to me) shotgun questions

[Cabalero Chuck]

First of all, I want to thank everyone who responded to my inquiry days ago about the 92 trapper lever gun & it's magazine capacity.

I will use your wisdom to my benefit for certain.

 

Now, I have questions concerning SxS coach guns and thier make up.

I have been studying the scattergun aspect of CAS since I solved the revolver part of the equation a while back.

Shotguns have been a hard road but the decision has come down to which side by side coach-length guns to consider.

 

I was fortunate enough to come across the technique videos produced w/ D. Stevens and this has made me seriously consider the single trigger mechanism over the double trigger style of gun.

I'm getting a better handle on the where-fore s & How-to s of the single over the double triggers.

Now I want to poke around and get input from the forum members and users of the guns to help with these late stage decisions.

I keep coming across the "this brand vs. that brand" never-ending arguments, and even though I would really like to say I'm going to get a Browning / SKB /________(fill-in-the-blank) /ect. , I narrowed things down to the russkie Remington and Stoeger's vast line up.

http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_side_by_sides.php

Between these I have simply had to final pick the Stoeger s due to availability - availability - availability ,period. Price certainly helped that decision too, but I digress.

If Spartan s (or what-ever you would call them this time around) were a reliable current production and importation I could possibly prefer them, but I honestly can't consider them a candidate because of the undeniable story of spotty availability.

These things break, and I hope to avoid a gun that requires a twin(at least initially) to stay in the line-up. And let's face it, the price on the Stoeger would allow purchase of a second to provide back-up.

I come to the Stoeger corral worried about stories that I have seen here? and at other forums (I know- sacrilege !) that consider the Stoeger coach gun series as "throw-away". I am finding that harder to believe the more I investigate. Will you all chime in about this topic?

The year is early, I've found a couple of model numbers that I'm considering, and I figure that I have a chance of a reasonable purchase cost along with the time to deal the firearm, whatever break-in and/or gunsmithing it would need could be done before serious usage would start this spring.

So, we're back to single -or- double trigger style of gun. The particular model I have on my short list are #31463 and #31460. http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_coach_gun_single_triggers.php

Both are single trigger, the 31463 has a s.s. rcvr. with chokes that can be changed, while the 31460 is an all blue gun with fixed choke. Besides the trigger decision, I have the options on choke that I need guidance about.

What choke configuration is going to best serve the CAS-only usage of the gun?

 

Let me apologize for the long lead up to my questions and somewhat scattered thought train.

I would like to preclude a bunch of "why in the world"s and "I'd NEVER consider that"s .

I figure that Stoeger couldn't field as large a selection of SxS type of guns if they weren't doing SOMETHING right, so let's just take it for granted that these last few models being considered (and thier close kin) is the group that makes the final cut.

I'd appreciate the candid thoughts and collective wisdom of the bunch of you.

[Christopher Carson]

Double triggers are usually consider more reliable, especially in inexpensive guns. Until you need to shave 100ths of seconds off your times, single triggers probably offer no advantage. (I think Stoeger's single-trigger models usually include automatic ejectors too -- although that may not apply to their coach guns -- and if included, you'd need to disable that capability. Easy.)

 

At CAS distances, chokes are relatively unimportant, wider probably "better" in that the shot pattern might be slighty enough wider to recover some doubtful hits on a sweep. At CAS distances, pattern widths (cone sizes) don't actually increase by much. Cylinder/Cylinder would be fine, Improved Cylinder/ditto would be fine, etc. Maybe Cylinder/Improved Cylinder (second barrel) if you encounter a thrown target at a match. (We've had one of those about once every 3 years.)

 

-Chris

[Guest diablo slim shootist]

I own both single and double trigger Stoegers.

My double trigger has not missed a beat in 10 yrs

My single trigger worked for 4-6 matches and developed

a problem with the second barrel not firing.Some have

had a problem with both fire at the same time.So beware

of Stoeger single trigger SXS unless you know a real good

gunsmith Diablo Slim

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

First of all, I want to thank everyone who responded to my inquiry days ago about the 92 trapper lever gun & it's magazine capacity.

I will use your wisdom to my benefit for certain.

 

Now, I have questions concerning SxS coach guns and thier make up.

I have been studying the scattergun aspect of CAS since I solved the revolver part of the equation a while back.

Shotguns have been a hard road but the decision has come down to which side by side coach-length guns to consider.

 

I was fortunate enough to come across the technique videos produced w/ D. Stevens and this has made me seriously consider the single trigger mechanism over the double trigger style of gun.

I'm getting a better handle on the where-fore s & How-to s of the single over the double triggers.

Now I want to poke around and get input from the forum members and users of the guns to help with these late stage decisions.

I keep coming across the "this brand vs. that brand" never-ending arguments, and even though I would really like to say I'm going to get a Browning / SKB /________(fill-in-the-blank) /ect. , I narrowed things down to the russkie Remington and Stoeger's vast line up.

http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_side_by_sides.php

Between these I have simply had to final pick the Stoeger s due to availability - availability - availability ,period. Price certainly helped that decision too, but I digress.

If Spartan s (or what-ever you would call them this time around) were a reliable current production and importation I could possibly prefer them, but I honestly can't consider them a candidate because of the undeniable story of spotty availability.

These things break, and I hope to avoid a gun that requires a twin(at least initially) to stay in the line-up. And let's face it, the price on the Stoeger would allow purchase of a second to provide back-up.

I come to the Stoeger corral worried about stories that I have seen here? and at other forums (I know- sacrilege !) that consider the Stoeger coach gun series as "throw-away". I am finding that harder to believe the more I investigate. Will you all chime in about this topic?

The year is early, I've found a couple of model numbers that I'm considering, and I figure that I have a chance of a reasonable purchase cost along with the time to deal the firearm, whatever break-in and/or gunsmithing it would need could be done before serious usage would start this spring.

So, we're back to single -or- double trigger style of gun. The particular model I have on my short list are #31463 and #31460. http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_coach_gun_single_triggers.php

Both are single trigger, the 31463 has a s.s. rcvr. with chokes that can be changed, while the 31460 is an all blue gun with fixed choke. Besides the trigger decision, I have the options on choke that I need guidance about.

What choke configuration is going to best serve the CAS-only usage of the gun?

 

Let me apologize for the long lead up to my questions and somewhat scattered thought train.

I would like to preclude a bunch of "why in the world"s and "I'd NEVER consider that"s .

I figure that Stoeger couldn't field as large a selection of SxS type of guns if they weren't doing SOMETHING right, so let's just take it for granted that these last few models being considered (and thier close kin) is the group that makes the final cut.

I'd appreciate the candid thoughts and collective wisdom of the bunch of you.

 

 

If it was my decision, it's a no brainer. Double triggers in 99% of the shooters hands are just as fast and much more reliable, especially if ya run light loads. I do like my triggers reversed for normal, right hand CAS use, so ya start with the left (front) triggerm and slip off it and "rake" the right (rear) trigger for a fast pair. I like the Russian Baikal, aka Spartan hammerless guns. They are tough as a russian tank and with a fairly easy to do "open wide" mod are a fine CAS gun. Short or long makes no nevermind, and whatever choke ya like, or none at all will do ya fine at CAS distances. I do like a bigger bead (brownells sells a kit, five beads, a drill and a tap, to replace the bead with a bigger one)

 

IMHO the Russian guns are tougher than a Stoeger, and generally open easier without too much work (just that "open wide" mod).

 

If ya have time, Baikal or Spartan guns can be found, even NIB on the various gun auction sites. I bought mine a couple of years ago brand new, cosmoline still in the barrels, from a local pard who seems to buy every shotgun in sight, but never used the Baikal when he got it (he's a shotgun snob, using English guns that fit just right, etc).... I didn't even ask what chokes it had, turns out they were F/M and they've worked out just fine.

[Roughneck Rod]

i prefer a single trigger double personally as it faster for me. i like the SKB the best as its very fast and easy to handle plus the gun just fits me. i do have a BSS with mechanical single trigger and its a great gun but its alot bigger than the SKB, i also dislike how the BSS trigger resets between shots. if you want a great shotgun with the best of both worlds, double triggers and handles like an SKB you ought to look at a Charles Daly 500. they are really nice guns and made by Miroku.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

If it was my decision, it's a no brainer. Double triggers in 99% of the shooters hands are just as fast and much more reliable, especially if ya run light loads. I do like my triggers reversed for normal, right hand CAS use, so ya start with the left (front) triggerm and slip off it and "rake" the right (rear) trigger for a fast pair. I like the Russian Baikal, aka Spartan hammerless guns. They are tough as a russian tank and with a fairly easy to do "open wide" mod are a fine CAS gun. Short or long makes no nevermind, and whatever choke ya like, or none at all will do ya fine at CAS distances. I do like a bigger bead (brownells sells a kit, five beads, a drill and a tap, to replace the bead with a bigger one)

 

IMHO the Russian guns are tougher than a Stoeger, and generally open easier without too much work (just that "open wide" mod).

What AJ said, double trigger over single unless you're gonna spring for an SKB. And the Baikal WAY!! over the Stoeger. EAA now carries the Baikal. Good Luck

EAA Baikal 220

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[Anvil Al #59168]

I have both.

SKB single trigger.

Baikal double trigger.

 

As far as getting on target and pulling the trigger/triggers.

The double is just as fast and can be faster than the single.

 

To me. What makes the SKB/BBS a better gun is not the fact it is single trigger.

They are just a better gun.

 

My Baikal has been slicked up. The trigger have been swapped. And the front trigger

thinned. I can take my trigger finger. Hit the front trigger, slide off and hit the 2nd

and it will almost sound like on shot. As if I pulled both at the same time. Even though

I used the same finger to pull both.

And given that 99.9% of the time you are going to have to swing to the next target anyway.

I have more than enough time to get to the 2nd trigger.

So they CAN be VERY fast.

 

So if I could not get a SKB/BBS. And was going with a entry level gun. I would go double trigger.

The entry lever single trigger guns???? No thanks.

[Dubious Don #56333]

It all boils down to personal preference. I know shooters that use a double trigger double and hold their own against others very well. Choke tubes are again preference rather than necessary. Length of barrel is again, personal. You aren't going to see much advantage to a 30 inch versus 20 inch unless you are negotiating around props.

 

There has been much discussion on the inertia versus mechanical trigger guns and their reliability. When you gunsmith a firearm, you do not always make it more reliable. people who insist on cutting springs can affect reliability and longevity. Case in point, Stoeger. The strong lever spring keeps the locking bolts firmly engaged when the gun is fired. When this spring is lightened too far, those bolts are now free to move under recoil either opening the gun on firing or, over time, this will wear the locking surfaces to the degree that the gun will not work reliably. This takes a while. The hammer springs on a Stoeger cushion the action parts to some degree and when they are lightened, it can negatively impact the way they do their job and as a result, those parts see increased wear over time. In some cases I've seen the surfaces on the barrel lugs (where it pivots on the frame) polished to such a degree that these parts slop around under firing and this also, increases the wear on these surfaces. In extreme cases, usually due to excessive polishing and/or spring lightening the barrel lug will crack right at the pivot hole. The way we work our guns impacts this. Cowboy shooters run their guns pretty hard flipping them open and such. It is no fun to have a double that must be broken open over a kneee or fence and these problems can be addressed with the RIGHT type of gunsmithing. Go too far and you affect longevity and reliability.

 

The Brownings and Ithaca's are popular because they work well. You are not going to equal the quality of these guns in a $400 Stoeger or some such however, there ain't a thing wrong with a Stoeger, Baikal etc if it works well.

 

I've yet to see any problem with my single trigger Stoegers but I haven't tinkered with them at all. I did have an issue with my 20ga, the right barrel was somewhat unreliable but the major part was I had a batch of old shells that either had been improperly stored or got wet at some point. Never had a problem with new manufacture STS's but I replaced the firing pins with Longhunter's steel ones and the "problem" with those older shells went away. Hmmm.

 

Most of my cowboy shotguns have removeable chokes. It isn't really necessary for our game but, it does allow me to get the best pattern I can out of the gun/load. The last Stoeger I bought was a single trigger coach gun and it has fixed modified/full chokes. Does everything I need it to do and in theory, that choke setup (mod for first barrel full for second) should work well on flyers.

 

The biggest benefit I see from having removeable chokes is when you desire to use featherlights one might choose to give up pattern size for density of shot and use a full choke to get a solid hit. (7 yards pattern with 7/8oz is about 7 inches with my gun) On the other hand, if I want to speed up a little and not have to aim so precisely I can use a cylinder choke (Again in my gun it throws a 10 inch pattern at 7 yards and with a 1 1/8oz load) so I can be a little less precise on centering the bead.

 

Yesterday I used my favorite TTN 97 and it has a modified choke tube in it; using 7/8oz and I didn't really have any problem knocking down the plates with the first shot and I wasn't really taking that much care to aim if you know what I mean. and there were a couple waaay out there. (I did aim a little because I know what my 7/8oz load does on a KD at 12 yards. Still gotta hit it to get it down!)

 

That single trigger Stoeger I mentioned above; the only thing I did to it was deactivate the safety. Personal preference, nothing more. I didn't have to hone the chambers (overrated in my book) because everything I've used from crappy reloads, factory AA, STS or BP has shucked perfectly with a simple flip of the wrist. I have another identical Stoeger that needed a little touch-up to the extractor but not the chamber to be as reliable and another that out of the box they just fly away! And still another that the chambers looked like someone polished them with a rattail file. That one took a LOT of work with a flex-hone!

 

Generally speaking, right out of the box a Stoeger will be just fine. Are their some issues that might need to be addressed? Perhaps. I typically don't work on ANY gun when it is new, my newest double is like that and though it is a little rough on the inside (in other words the surfaces are definitely not polished like a Rolex, WAY FAR from that) but it works just fine, doesn't stick or anything so I see no need to do anything but shoot it!

[Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363]

Howdy Chuck - good questions you've asked here ... hopefully I can shed some light on the topic.

 

At $399, the Stoegers are what they are, and as you mentioned you've read all the horror stories so you know what you're getting.

 

However, instead of the coach gun I'd suggest you look at this model http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_uplander.php instead. I started out with a 20" coach gun, but have found that the longer barrels provide a better sighting picture, the gun balances better, and it will stay open easier when loading. The additional 6" is not an impediment to motion - 99% of the stages you'll ever shoot will be in the open, so the argument about clearing windows and doorways on props is moot. This is one aspect of shotgunnery that's a personal preference, but it's worth considering.

 

Coach guns tend to buck and kick more too, due to their lighter weight. Unless you're shooting Featherweights or load your own light shells, it will beat the living daylights out of you. It's no fun going home bruised and battered at the end of the day.

 

I've only ever shot two-trigger shotguns. The mechanisms are simpler, while the single-trigger models are problematic at best with reset issues. I've seen them double fire at shoots, or fail to reset the second barrel. I imagine that's rather frustrating, in addition to being unsafe. Until Stoeger addresses this and comes up with a permanent fix I would avoid them.

 

The improved cylinder and modified fixed chokes will serve you fine, but the screw-in option would give you more flexibility. For a few extra dollars you could have both barrels choked the same for consistency. Choked down a bit, you'll also have tighter patterns to guarantee you take out those stubborn knockdowns.

 

Regarding the Baikals ... they are very robustly built. You'd have to work at breaking one of them.

[Major Regret, SASS #57800]

My pistols have one trigger, my rifle has one trigger, my shotgun (BSS) has one trigger. I tried a double trigger a couple of times (Baikal, Stoeger, Miroku), worked OK if I took my time and thought about it. Pick the gun up quick, BANG! tug, Tug, TUG! No matter how hard I pulled on the rear of the trigger guard I couldn't get it to go off until I moved my hand forward and found the front trigger. Did this multiple times (I'm a slow learner)and then got my BSS.

 

Double triggers are supposed to be more reliable, I've seen shooters have issues. For me comes down to personal preference and I use one trigger on everything else I shoot, why do I want to two triggers on my shotgun?

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

In my experience, many newcomers to shotguns are put off by the idea of double triggers because they think double triggers may be a little bit confusing to operate. Nothing could be farther from the truth. All you do is pull the front trigger first, then let your finger slip back to the rear trigger and pull that one. This is much easier than pulling the rear trigger first and then fishing around with your finger to find the front trigger. That's the way doubles were always set up and meant to be shot. Don't try putting a finger on each trigger, that is asking for a bruised finger and both barrels firing at once.

 

A single trigger mechanism is more mechanically complicated and more prone to failure. Particularly with inexpensive shotguns. They just ain't going to put much money into high quality parts for the more complicated trigger mechanism. With two triggers, each mechanism is simpler than the more complicated mechanism required for a single trigger. So they tend to be more reliable.

 

As far as barrel length is concerned, my favorite CAS shotgun is an old Stevens hammered double that somebody cut down to 24". Much as I rail against cutting down the barrels on old shotguns, since somebody else already did it, I find 24" to be ideal. Plenty of length to get a good, quick sight picture, and short enough that I don't bang it into props when running through a stage. Which don't happen too often by the way. When you get really short barrels you get less weight and that means more perceived recoil.

 

Regarding chokes, I have used everything from 30" full choked barrels to my 24" cylinder bore for Trap. That's the two extremes. I find the most important thing is to actually take a split second to aim! Then chokes don't matter for this game. The targets are so close if you just lay the bead on the center of the target, you are gonna hit it.

 

Don't fall for the baloney that you are not supposed to aim a shotgun, you just point it. That is hogwash. This ain't trap or skeet, the targets ain't going anywhere, if you want to hit them, you aim, just like you do with your rifle.

[Leadnose Calhoun]

You are getting a lot of good information here, so here is a bit more. I have had both an Uplander and a Baikal (Spartan). I would recommend opening the locks and checking them. Mine were full of wood chips! Every time I shot, they would shift around. This gave very erratic performance. Sometimes the chips would bind up the lock completely. Gave me fits. You should use whatever feels good to you. That's what matters most.

[Smithy]

I've shot years of skeet and had many a gun with a single trigger. I now have a Stoeger coach gun with double triggers. The single uses either recoil or mechanical means to switch to the other barrel; I've had both types fail to switch and had a FTF on the second barrel. I've also had single trigger models double on me, not fun. These situations have never happened on any double trigger model I have owned. I did try to swap triggers on my Stoeger so transitioning from front trigger to the rear would be faster, but doing so on the Stoeger is a little more complex than on other models of shotgun and best left to the pros. My gun started out life with 20" tubes, but I only shoot black powder and was having problems with the tubes locking up after extended firing. So, I cut the barrels down to 18 1/2" to remove the choke tubes and give me a fixed cyl/cyl choke. That and some interior polishing and my gun works like a champ. Smithy.

[Grizzly Dave]

FWIW, I personally would go the a double trigger Stoeger due to the reported reliability issues. Now one of the better name and more than double or triple the price scatterguns, I don't know, but as I have a TTN hammered double with two triggers, I might still opt for two triggers just to stay consistent with what I'm used to, and what would then become my back up.

[NUNICA KID,SASS #68454]

Skb/Bss/ Stoeger can be argued an I guess it all matters on funds available an personal preference as far as choke configuration a gun with tubes at our ranges matters most to me if used for cowboy trap an other side matches where a tighter choke may be needed.My 2 cents NK

[John E. Law]

I will add my 2 cents here since I have solely shot a double since starting SASS and am pretty good with it. It is also my favorate gun to shoot.

 

First, How are you with the shotgun? Are you an average to slower shooter just looking to shoot clean no matter the time? Will you be gently putting or "setting" the shotgun down when done with it or are you now or trying to be one of the super fast guys who are really beating on their equipment moving through a stage as fast as they can?

 

When I shoot my shotgun I beat the hell out of it. I run it hard! I slam it open and closed when I'm shooting. Now, I don't throw it down, but again I'm not setting it down very gently either. So how will you use it? IMO, that will play a roll on which one to get.

 

With that said, I have broken 3 Stoegers (smithed by 3 seperate gunsmiths and reworked again by others) in as many years. One, as someone mentioned before, was the Uplander it being the worst. Once you get the Stoeger modified to open wide enough to run fast the barrel and action slam against each other damaging the lugs in the gun. Soon it will start opening between the 2 shots when fired, won't shoot both barrels reliably, etc. The longer barrels resulted in even more weight slamming onto the cheap metal Stoeger uses in the lug turning the gun into a paper weight. The coach guns were better, but after a while were just as bad. I personally think the Stoeger is a piece of junk and I would never have another. And ya'all can keep the comments like, "this can be fixed" and/or "it was shoddy gunsmithing" to yourselves. The guns were bought and/or the gunsmith work was done by very notible smiths routinely mentioned here on the wire. They are great smiths and no disrespect is directed towards any of them, but you can't make a turd into a wedding cake.

 

The SKB/BSS. I have shot both of them and I love them. When they're tuned they're awesome! Fast and reliable! Finding one, cutting it up, and then paying for it all? Well that's a different story. They are very expensive compaired to some others available. I am always looking and when I find the right deal I will definately have one or the other or maybe both, but right now cost keeps me away. On this note I also like the Charles Daly, but they're very hard to find.

 

That leaves me with the Baikal. I have 2 of them. One main and one backup. Again, I beat the hell out of my main match gun. (I have rarely used the back up, but it also works great). I dryfire it several days a week and shoot, on average, 4 matches a month. I've had it 3 years and it's as good as the day I got it from Nate Kiowa Jones who I bought it from brand new and tuned. Where I see the Baikal differs from the Stoeger is after it's modified it still has some of the spring cushion when opened. When your slamming it open the way I, and some of the other fast double guys I see, do that cushion is necessary to keep it from disintagrating itself. As for the cost? You can get a race ready Baikal usually for less than a used bone stock SKB in average condition. The BSS is out of the question when it comes to cost. On my Baikal's I had the action done, chambers polished, triggers reversed, and a larger bead put on.

 

This of course is all my opinion based on my experience with the shotguns I have tried so take it for what it's worth.

 

As for the availability, I see them for sale all the time here on the wire, on Gun Broker, and at the larger matches that have gun shops at. Atlantic Guns had 2 brand new ones at the Mason Dixon. I also heard, as mentioned earlier, that EAA was carrrying them again.

 

Needless to say I love my inexpensive Baikal.

 

JEL

[Grizzly Dave]

Reading description of a Baikail coach gun, it says "mechanical barrel selector" that means as to which fires first, right? You don't have to trip the switch as you are shooting to move from one to the other, right?

 

Silly question, but I have no experience what so ever with these critters.

 

Grizz

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

Reading description of a Baikail coach gun, it says "mechanical barrel selector" that means as to which fires first, right? You don't have to trip the switch as you are shooting to move from one to the other, right?

 

Silly question, but I have no experience what so ever with these critters.

 

Grizz

Howdy Dave, the barrel selector applies to the single trigger model. You can move the switch to have either left or right barrel fire first.

 

Jefro

[Grizzly Dave]

Thanks Jefro, that is what I thought.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

Captain Woodrow Cahill's experience is identical to mine.

 

I have an Uplander and actually prefer the longer barrel as it just feels more natural to me. Maybe that's because I've shot trap for many years and occasionally hunt birds. I suppose the short barrels are better for super-fast shooters, but I'm not in that category so it's not an issue for me. I bought mine used and find it to be simple to work on and reliable.

 

One other thing to consider is if you ever get the hankerin' to shoot Classic Cowboy, the hammerless doubles can't be used. Having said that, I think they're better for new shooters since they automatically cock when the gun is opened.

 

Welcome and good luck!

[Grizzly Dave]

well heck, was kinda keeping this close to the vest, but don't have the cash anyway, a Baikal on auction site looks like a decent deal right now, who knows where it will wind up.

 

Grizz

[Rance - SASS # 54090]

OK my 2 cents worth and it ain't worth much more than that... Sounds like you've decided on a Stoeger...

I have 3 of them... all double triggers.. still have them all..

I've had one single trigger.. and got rid of it for the sake of not wanting to remember

which one I was shootin'.. How many triggers have I got to pull?? It operated fine, but I did worry about the problems they've been blessed with.. and you don't want to worry about any gun operating properly when in a match..

 

The average Joe.. and the faster Joe can operate the double triggers without sacrificing any time...

If you get up to the top dogs.. it might be different but I ain't there..

 

The 1st. was a base all blued one.. I shot it for a couple years without any work.. The gun broke itself in.. I got my wife into CAS and she couldn't open it very well (the opening lever was hard to work) I put a lighter spring in the lever mechanism. Only problem was too light a lever spring.. gun would pop open a little and wouldn't fire second barrel. Put heavier lever spring back in.. Gun still shooting well to date..

 

When wife took my original Stoeger..I got to buy a Stoeger Coach Gun Supreme.. screw in chokes.. I went with improved cylinder chokes with it... by now I know more about shotguns so I did a little polishing to area's on this one...took the 1st. one back to my dealer (the one my wife is shooting) and I had him open the barrels up to improved cylinder on both barrels..

 

we're still shootin' the same Stoegers...haven't had one break yet... guess been shootin' about 5-6 years. When I got rid of the single trigger Stoeger I took the money and bought another Stoeger Coach Gun Supreme.. figure my wifes SxS is the oldest and we'd have a back up. Well it hasn't been used in over a year.. the 2 originals still shootin' fine..

 

I've had good luck with the Stoegers... and I don't baby them... they have their dings and dents in the wood and the bluing worn off but they still work

 

Rance

Thinkin' I like my Stoegers

Oh Yeah... they are all 12 gauge with 20" barrels

[Red River Ray SASS#33254]

I'd get a Stoger or a Baikal ta start wid. As they are tha entry level guns. It won't be long till ye will know what YOU like in a SXS, what evabody else likes won't add to a hill of beans then. While your learnin ta shoot your entry level gun you can try some of tha more refined firearms and figger out if ye made tha right choice. For everyone ye see broke there's probably 10 times that haven't had any trouble. As far as single or double triggers, well I'd surely go with two cause they are faster, in tha right match tha second shot will add no time (0 split). Alot disagree an thats fine. My entry level gun is I think 12 years old, I owned it about a 1 1/2 years before I joined SASS. Its a Baikal and it rattles like a new CHEVY truck but it ain't ever missed a lick. Tha barrels have been back bored all tha way out she covers both barn doors at 10 yds. She has a twin sister tha same in every way that will shoot off tha barn door hinges at 10 yds. In alot of matches they are both brought ta bear on tha outlaws! At home tha open gun works well but ye leave home and sometimes ye run into 17 yd SG targets.

In time make sure you get yourself and your guns ta where whatever ya run into at a match your 100% positive that you can handle it.

Remember it don't matter how fast so an so shoots six from tha table. It just don't matter.

 

Thats my view, alot of times its clouded but many times its crystal clear.

 

Good luck to ye pard, no matter what ye git just be glad ye live in a place you can shoot it.

 

Any of you fellers got any of them entry level Baikals layin aroun fer aroun 250 give me a call.

 

 

 

RRR

[J-BAR #18287]

First of all, I want to thank everyone who responded to my inquiry days ago about the 92 trapper lever gun & it's magazine capacity.

I will use your wisdom to my benefit for certain.

 

Now, I have questions concerning SxS coach guns and thier make up.

I have been studying the scattergun aspect of CAS since I solved the revolver part of the equation a while back.

Shotguns have been a hard road but the decision has come down to which side by side coach-length guns to consider.

 

I was fortunate enough to come across the technique videos produced w/ D. Stevens and this has made me seriously consider the single trigger mechanism over the double trigger style of gun.

I'm getting a better handle on the where-fore s & How-to s of the single over the double triggers.

Now I want to poke around and get input from the forum members and users of the guns to help with these late stage decisions.

I keep coming across the "this brand vs. that brand" never-ending arguments, and even though I would really like to say I'm going to get a Browning / SKB /________(fill-in-the-blank) /ect. , I narrowed things down to the russkie Remington and Stoeger's vast line up.

http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_side_by_sides.php

Between these I have simply had to final pick the Stoeger s due to availability - availability - availability ,period. Price certainly helped that decision too, but I digress.

If Spartan s (or what-ever you would call them this time around) were a reliable current production and importation I could possibly prefer them, but I honestly can't consider them a candidate because of the undeniable story of spotty availability.

These things break, and I hope to avoid a gun that requires a twin(at least initially) to stay in the line-up. And let's face it, the price on the Stoeger would allow purchase of a second to provide back-up.

I come to the Stoeger corral worried about stories that I have seen here? and at other forums (I know- sacrilege !) that consider the Stoeger coach gun series as "throw-away". I am finding that harder to believe the more I investigate. Will you all chime in about this topic?

The year is early, I've found a couple of model numbers that I'm considering, and I figure that I have a chance of a reasonable purchase cost along with the time to deal the firearm, whatever break-in and/or gunsmithing it would need could be done before serious usage would start this spring.

So, we're back to single -or- double trigger style of gun. The particular model I have on my short list are #31463 and #31460. http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_coach_gun_single_triggers.php

Both are single trigger, the 31463 has a s.s. rcvr. with chokes that can be changed, while the 31460 is an all blue gun with fixed choke. Besides the trigger decision, I have the options on choke that I need guidance about.

What choke configuration is going to best serve the CAS-only usage of the gun?

 

Let me apologize for the long lead up to my questions and somewhat scattered thought train.

I would like to preclude a bunch of "why in the world"s and "I'd NEVER consider that"s .

I figure that Stoeger couldn't field as large a selection of SxS type of guns if they weren't doing SOMETHING right, so let's just take it for granted that these last few models being considered (and thier close kin) is the group that makes the final cut.

I'd appreciate the candid thoughts and collective wisdom of the bunch of you.

 

 

Hi CC:

 

You are way overthinking this!!

 

Just take the approach most of us have taken...

 

1. buy a shotgun

2. shoot it

3. if you like it, repeat #2

4. if you don't like it

4.a. take it to a gunsmith and fix it up

or 4.b. sell it and go back to #1.

 

 

This procedure works. I have done it several times!

 

Good luck pard!

[Bull Creek Cole]

I just finished traveling down the same road you're on now. In the end, I bought a Stoeger double trigger. I like the gun so far but I've only owned it for two weeks and shot about ten rounds through it. If you go with the Stoeger there are some pretty common/popular modifications you might consider. In fact, I just took mine to the gunsmith today for a trigger job. The front trigger was about 12 lbs and the back trigger was about 11 lbs. The creep was from here to Dallas. If you do your own tinkering, Maurauder has a good site with good instructions. If you want to send it off there are several good pardners around this site who do excellent work.

 

Best Regards