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Zachariah Smith 70528

Smoking While Running Clock

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MORE SMOKE! I missed the other ceegar smokers. I didn't see anyone running the timer while smoking a stogie, did you?

 

The two guys who did the bulk of the TO chores on Sunday were smoking cigars while doing so for most of the stages -- you didn't even notice!

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The two guys who did the bulk of the TO chores on Sunday were smoking cigars while doing so for most of the stages -- you didn't even notice!

 

 

Guarantee I would have.

Cigarette smoke is bad enough.

But cigar smoke will just about make me puke.

Would be hard for me to shoot the best stage I could.

If I was about to vomit.

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OK, I'm not trying to stir the pot, but I've gotta say this. I think it's odd what some see as evil and unsafe, when a couple of the clubs I've shot at break out the Bud Light and "Spring Water" after the match, before everyone gets in their car to drive home. Most are responsible but some are not, and to worry about a whiff of cigar smoke is like telling a pregnant woman to wear her seat belt on the way to the abortion clinic! ;)

 

BSD

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What a bunch of pansy candy nozzle snuffers.

 

All that dust. All that gunsmoke. And yer sensibilities are put off their axis by a whiff or two of Tabac???

 

It's outside..... It's a gunfight..... It's 1886....... Most people bathe once a week, if at all..... A central part of the economy is tobacco..... There's manure everywhere....

 

I have always wondered who was eroding my freedoms. Now, I got a bead on 'em.

 

Frankly, this discussion sounds exactly like the talk that goes on when folks build a house next to a gun range that was built a hundred years ago and now feel their rights have been infringed by the range. Or, like the constant whiner that complains she feels unsafe every time an A-10 flies over her house because it might crash into it. Yes, the air force base was there a long time before her house was built and a very long time before she moved into it.

 

Cigars are part of a SASS match and have been for a long time before I got there. I never saw a SASS match without ceeegars and didn't breath the air where the smoke was if I didn't want to.

 

I'm surprised to come in here (of all places) to read so much 1980s, politically correct, Kaliforniverbage against something that was such an integral part of the old west and SASS as it has been for over a quarter of a century. These are the same forms of prose aimed at RTKBA.

 

If you want to talk about carcinogens, you'll probably learn yer whole kit is more dangerous to you than someone else's ceeeegar.

 

Now, having said all that, from an R/O perspective, I think substitute black powder formulations ought to be banned from SASS for all the kandi-Kalifornilogic reason you level at the leaf.

 

I've seen the enemy of freedom and it is us.

 

+1

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Guarantee I would have.

Cigarette smoke is bad enough.

But cigar smoke will just about make me puke.

Would be hard for me to shoot the best stage I could.

If I was about to vomit.

 

I’m with you on that one, cigarette smoke doesn’t bother me at all, I find cups of spit sitting around disgusting, but cigar smoke makes me physically ill.

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OK, I'm not trying to stir the pot, but I've gotta say this. I think it's odd what some see as evil and unsafe, when a couple of the clubs I've shot at break out the Bud Light and "Spring Water" after the match, before everyone gets in their car to drive home. Most are responsible but some are not, and to worry about a whiff of cigar smoke is like telling a pregnant woman to wear her seat belt on the way to the abortion clinic! ;)

 

BSD

 

 

WHAT????

 

 

No one here is comparing smoking while running the timer to driving drunk :excl:

That is just ridiculous.

 

Yes. One might make my eyes burn and irritate me.

Maybe burn me a little if I run into it. Or burn my shirt.

 

The other can KILL or cripple me for life.

 

Don't even compare the two. Not even close.

 

Both your analogies are ridiculous.

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re: "the smoke from gunpowder with vaporized lead particals doesn't bother you."

 

The physiological reactions of one who is allergic to the various combustion products of tobacco is considerably different than from gunpowder or lead particles.

 

Leaving all the arguments aside, the point is 'allergy' and what it does to the affected individual.

 

We are confusing the 'right' of the smoker to pursue his affliction, with the 'right' of those affected with an allergy to avoid such a triggering chemical reaction.

 

I'm one of those who is allergic to both cigar smoke as well as cigarettes. A few whiffs will produce sinus swelling, and a few more will trigger a migraine that can last hours.

 

All because a TO smoker is so addicted to his own theory of comfort that he can dismiss the actual medical vulnerability of someone on the firing line?

 

Take a break gents. We can all step back. Give the afflicted a chance to get off the firing line before pretending this is a political rather than a medical issue.

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As a pard that has COPD (The airways are constricted) and can't get enough air at the best of times ..... I can tell you this There is something in the tobacco used in cigerettes that causes me to start to cough from the smallest wiff, a full breath of it (even outside ) drops me to my knees ...

Conversely Blackpowder smoke , cigar and pipe smoke don't bother me near as much in the outdoors, but I would prefer the TO not smoke while I shoot ...

And I can't shoot safely if the TO is smoking a cigerette while I shoot,I have tried!!! Dropping to your knees and trying to cough your lungs out with tears streaming from your eyes and your stomach trying to empty at the same time isn't fun ...

 

So please refrain from smoking if You are TO, take a break if needed ,,,,,, then smoke, preferably where I can remain Up-wind of Ya ....

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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If a feller wants to smoke in the great outdoors, he should be able to. If there is a handicapped person at a match, accomodations, including paring that disability with an appropriate RO, should be pretty easy as well.

 

None of this says that in a game where combusted sulphur is spewed over particpants and lead fragments are showered on the crowd, there should not be room for a big old Churchill smoldering.

 

Cheers,

BJT

 

 

re: "the smoke from gunpowder with vaporized lead particals doesn't bother you."

 

The physiological reactions of one who is allergic to the various combustion products of tobacco is considerably different than from gunpowder or lead particles.

 

Leaving all the arguments aside, the point is 'allergy' and what it does to the affected individual.

 

We are confusing the 'right' of the smoker to pursue his affliction, with the 'right' of those affected with an allergy to avoid such a triggering chemical reaction.

 

I'm one of those who is allergic to both cigar smoke as well as cigarettes. A few whiffs will produce sinus swelling, and a few more will trigger a migraine that can last hours.

 

All because a TO smoker is so addicted to his own theory of comfort that he can dismiss the actual medical vulnerability of someone on the firing line?

 

Take a break gents. We can all step back. Give the afflicted a chance to get off the firing line before pretending this is a political rather than a medical issue.

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No one here is comparing smoking while running the timer to driving drunk :excl:

That is just ridiculous.

 

Both your analogies are ridiculous.

 

Maybe you didn't read all the replies, some have raised safety issues with someone smoking around the loading table with BP shooters, while numerous others have raised health safety concerns. These are both safety issues and very comparable to driving home after having one too many beers, if we are to be consistent in our concerns. I suppose I'm trying to say if we can take such a small issue as a whiff of smoke and make it a safety concern, why isn't the bigger alcohol issue also a concern? I respect your opinion to disagree though.

 

BSD

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The one question that comes to mind is why should the rights of one side be more important then the rights of the other......just asking.....I am one that just dont care, either way is fine....Please just let me shoot!!! :D

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Really Quite simple ,,,,,,, My need to breath should trump your want to smoke !!!!

 

I can't just put of breathing ...............

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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I am a Non smoker, and unfortunately severely allergic to cigarette smoke. I don;t go to clubs or bars anymore because of that. That being said I see both sides of this. As a non smoker I prefer not to have smoke around... but if we are outside, and shooting guns, and the person smoking does their best to keep it out of my face so what. I can deal with it just fine, cigars too. I do see how some may believe that a cigarette could hinder a TO if they needed to stop someone or hand off a gun. However the TO's that I shoot with that also smoke do a great job with this and have saved many close calls even while smoking. If the person who is willing to be a TO has a smoking habit, and they are polite about it, I don't mind...it's outdoors folks. Now if someone blows smoke in my face I will ask them not to, or I may have to hold them down and bust a big one in theirs... :unsure:

 

The funny thing is that even being allergic to the smoke I still like the smell of a good cigar... I just can't smoke one.

 

-Deadlee

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Again just asking....why cant the non-smoker move just as easy as the smoker....ones right should not trump the other....if what is happening in box a dont make you happy you can always go to box b...just asking :huh: ........and again I really dont care one way or the other.....I just love to shoot this game and would and have shot it in a storm!!!! :D

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Again just asking....why cant the non-smoker move just as easy as the smoker....ones right should not trump the other....if what is happening in box a dont make you happy you can always go to box b...just asking :huh: ........and again I really dont care one way or the other.....I just love to shoot this game and would and have shot it in a storm!!!! :D

 

Um, because the non-smoker is the shooter!

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Now Steve I have been being real polite and respectful with my posts so there aint no need to get rude.....Just asking thats all.........and the shooter can shoot on a posse that dont have a fella as a TO that smokes just as easy as the smoking TO can move to a posse that dont give a crap on way or the other.......

 

I do find it a little amusing that we worry about smoking......but the fact that we are putting all kinds of toxins in the air with the diffrent powders that we use yet that is no problem and dont say that the smoke is diffrent, I have shot with you BP smoke pukers and have gotten a lung full and OH MAN...try and breath.....

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Excuuuuse me!

 

Let me restate. We are talking about someone whose job is to "safely assist the shooter through the course of fire." Either work as a TO or smoke. I find them, from experience, to be mutually exclusive.

 

Smokers here are just tossing red herrings in the conversation to dilute the message and serve their own purposes. :rolleyes:

 

BTW, it took two days this week after shooting for my eyes to stop watering. I've always had trouble with the smoke. I don't know exactly how to describe it. After shooting, I see a thick fluid in my eyes. Not to mention it makes my nose run. Like I said, that is the price I pay for shooting.

 

Cigars nauseate me. They smell nothing like gun smoke.

 

While I am on my soap box, please don't put your cigarette/cigar in my face when checking the score sheet or at the sign up table either. :angry:

 

Regards,

 

Allie "whose mother and father both died from squamous cell carcenomas caused by my father's cigar smoking" Mo

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The two guys who did the bulk of the TO chores on Sunday were smoking cigars while doing so for most of the stages -- you didn't even notice!

 

Well see there, you make a good point! Two guys were smoking cigars while running the timer for me -- they obviously were being courteous not to blow smoke my way, because I never got a face full of smoke from either of them, and did not even notice the cigar. Now YOU on the other hand... ;)

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Smoking While Running Clock

 

Smoking does not bother me during matches as I can simply move up wind. The one time it does bother me is when the timer operator is smoking as I can’t move away.

 

It would be nice if timer operators did not smoke. Just before I shoot is not a good to get into a discussion about smoking.

 

Any suggestions as to how to tactfully handle this?

 

if the timer operator smokes

stach some black powder loads on yer own cart to use

teeeeeeeeeeeeeee-heeeeeeeee

thats what I wood due

 

that aint no prank............................. :P:P:P

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Ooh Ooh!

 

Mike, you gave me a great idea. Although, I don't shoot hot SG loads anymore, I could make an exception for a smoking TO. They are deafening under an aluminum roof.

 

:wub:

 

Allie

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Ooh Ooh!

 

Mike, you gave me a great idea. Although, I don't shoot hot SG loads anymore, I could make an exception for a smoking TO. They are deafening under an aluminum roof.

 

:wub:

 

Allie

 

Anyone ever tell you that you have an evil streak behind that smile, Mo? ;) Makes me wonder what you are up to. :o

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Hello,

 

What's done is done. Justifying pranks serves no purpose but to encourage them. I just hope this thread serves to discourage future pranks.

 

Regards,

 

Allie "who would not be amused by having to pretend to be amused by a prank or risk being called belligerent and ejected" Mo :FlagAm:

 

 

 

 

 

Ooh Ooh!

 

Mike, you gave me a great idea. Although, I don't shoot hot SG loads anymore, I could make an exception for a smoking TO. They are deafening under an aluminum roof.

 

:wub:

 

Allie

 

 

Ah, the message is quite clear now :blink:

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None of this says that in a game where combusted sulphur is spewed over particpants and lead fragments are showered on the crowd, there should not be room for a big old Churchill smoldering.

 

Cheers,

BJT

In the immortal words of Lyle Lovett:

 

YOU CAN HAVE MY GIRL BUT DON'T TOUCH MY HAT.... :angry: or my $12 Montecristo either.... which I wouldn't smoke whilst timing- it's too fine a pleasure.

 

Rudyard Kipling: A woman is only a woman, but a good cigar is a smoke. :wub:

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I think the whole work is appropriate.....

 

Open the old cigar-box, get me a Cuba stout,

For things are running crossways, and Maggie and I are out.

 

We quarrelled about Havanas--we fought o'er a good cheroot,

And I know she is exacting, and she says I am a brute.

 

Open the old cigar-box--let me consider a space;

In the soft blue veil of the vapour musing on Maggie's face.

 

Maggie is pretty to look at--Maggie's a loving lass,

But the prettiest cheeks must wrinkle, the truest of loves must pass.

 

There's peace in a Laranaga, there's calm in a Henry Clay,

But the best cigar in an hour is finished and thrown away--

 

Thrown away for another as perfect and ripe and brown--

But I could not throw away Maggie for fear o' the talk o' the town!

 

Maggie, my wife at fifty--gray and dour and old--

With never another Maggie to purchase for love or gold!

 

And the light of Days that have Been the dark of the Days that Are,

And Love's torch stinking and stale, like the butt of a dead cigar--

 

The butt of a dead cigar you are bound to keep in your pocket--

With never a new one to light tho' it's charred and black to the socket.

 

Open the old cigar-box--let me consider awhile--

Here is a mild Manilla--there is a wifely smile.

 

Which is the better portion--bondage bought with a ring,

Or a harem of dusky beauties fifty tied in a string?

 

Counsellors cunning and silent--comforters true and tried,

And never a one of the fifty to sneer at a rival bride.

 

Thought in the early morning, solace in time of woes,

Peace in the hush of the twilight, balm ere my eyelids close.

 

This will the fifty give me, asking naught in return,

With only a Suttee's passion--to do their duty and burn.

 

This will the fifty give me. When they are spent and dead,

Five times other fifties shall be my servants instead.

 

The furrows of far-off Java, the isles of the Spanish Main,

When they hear my harem is empty, will send me my brides again.

 

I will take no heed to their raiment, nor food for their mouths withal,

So long as the gulls are nesting, so long as the showers fall.

 

I will scent 'em with best Vanilla, with tea will I temper their hides,

And the Moor and the Mormon shall envy who read of the tale of my brides.

 

For Maggie has written a letter that gives me my choice between

The wee little whimpering Love and the great god Nick o' Teen.

 

And I have been servant of Love for barely a twelve-month clear,

But I have been Priest of Partagas a matter of seven year;

 

And the gloom of my bachelor days is flecked with the cheery light

Of stumps that I burned to Friendship and Pleasure and Work and Fight.

 

And I turn my eyes to the future that Maggie and I must prove,

But the only light on the marshes is the Will-o'-the-Wisp of Love.

 

Will it see me safe through my journey or leave me bogged in the mire?

Since a puff of tobacco can cloud it, shall I follow the fitful fire?

 

Open the old cigar-box--let me consider anew--

Old friends, and who is Maggie that I should abandon you?

 

A million surplus Maggies are willing to bear the yoke;

And a woman is only a woman, but a good cigar is a Smoke.

 

Light me another Cuba--I hold to my first-sworn vows,

If Maggie will have no rival, I'll have no Maggie for spouse!

-- Rudyard Kipling

 

 

 

In the immortal words of Lyle Lovett:

 

YOU CAN HAVE MY GIRL BUT DON'T TOUCH MY HAT.... :angry: or my $12 Montecristo either.... which I wouldn't smoke whilst timing- it's too fine a pleasure.

 

Rudyard Kipling: A woman is only a woman, but a good cigar is a smoke. :wub:

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Ah, the message is quite clear now :blink:

Hellllllooo Sun,

 

The first post was on a thread where pranks involving messing with other peoples guns came up. Big difference between that and the types of legal loads I choose to shoot. You should be ashamed to take it out of context like that.

 

Regards,

 

Allie "don't touch my guns or blow smoke in my face" Mo

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I think the whole work is appropriate.....

... If Maggie will have no rival, I'll have no Maggie for spouse!

-- Rudyard Kipling

OMG! If you know what I mean. ;)

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Hellllllooo Sun,

 

The first post was on a thread where pranks involving messing with other peoples guns came up. Big difference between that and the types of legal loads I choose to shoot. You should be ashamed to take it out of context like that.

 

Regards,

 

Allie "don't touch my guns or blow smoke in my face" Mo

 

Allie

 

I'm not taking anything out of context.......those aren't my words, they are your words. Any prank with a loaded gun is still a prank. Is scaring the TO (and everyone close) not a prank? Don't worry, I won't touch your guns or blow smoke in your face, I'm a heck of alot more considerate than that...

 

Sun

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They are deafening under an aluminum roof.

 

:wub:

 

Allie

 

So...the possiblity of any hearing loss is harmless prank?

 

Good one!

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Now Steve I have been being real polite and respectful with my posts so there aint no need to get rude.....Just asking thats all.........and the shooter can shoot on a posse that dont have a fella as a TO that smokes just as easy as the smoking TO can move to a posse that dont give a crap on way or the other.......

 

I do find it a little amusing that we worry about smoking......but the fact that we are putting all kinds of toxins in the air with the diffrent powders that we use yet that is no problem and dont say that the smoke is diffrent, I have shot with you BP smoke pukers and have gotten a lung full and OH MAN...try and breath.....

 

That might work IF you are at a small club and know everybody there.

 

But at alot of these shoots. You don't pick what posse you are on.

You are assigned to a posse.

And you may not know some on that posse until the match starts.

Heck I have been on a posse that I did not know ANYBODY before that match started.

So that one won't work.

 

And don't care if you believe it or not. Not all smoke affect everyone the same.

 

I also try to avoid BP shooters. When they come up to shoot. If not counting or running the timer.

I move off the stage. Go to my cart. Move out of the smoke. Hold my breath.

 

But as the shooter. I don't have that choice to move off, move away.

If I shoot after a BP shooter. I wait until the smoke clears before I will take the stage.

Because as the shooter. I have want to shoot the best stage I can.

If I wanted to shoot in BP smoke. I would be shooting BP.

 

NOBODY is asking a smoker NOT to smoke at the range.

Just not while you are timeing.

 

Is that really to much to ask????

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Smoke, no smoke.

Chew, no chew.

 

I don't care ... just let me shoot my stage.

 

I'm tryin' to shoot faster anyhow. Maybe the TO blowin' smoke at me will help speed me up.

 

 

Waimea (who's never smoked but don't mind bein' around cowpokes that do)

 

:FlagAm:

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Maybe you didn't read all the replies, some have raised safety issues with someone smoking around the loading table with BP shooters, while numerous others have raised health safety concerns. These are both safety issues and very comparable to driving home after having one too many beers, if we are to be consistent in our concerns. I suppose I'm trying to say if we can take such a small issue as a whiff of smoke and make it a safety concern, why isn't the bigger alcohol issue also a concern? I respect your opinion to disagree though.

 

BSD

 

Apples and oranges.

We are talking about ON the firing line.

Not what they do after that match.

 

If those smokers want to get together and smoke themselves into a stupor after the match.

Let them.

I just don't want unwanted smoke in my eyes. Making them water and me cough WHILE I am trying to

shoot the best stage I can. I have enough problem on my own.

I also don't want to bump into them and have them burn me or my shirt while shooting.

 

Ya got the whole rest of the range to smoke away.

The one place it could bother a shooter while he is shooting???

Come on. You got to smoke that bad???? Really????

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NOBODY is asking a smoker NOT to smoke at the range.

Just not while you are timeing.

 

Is that really to much to ask????

 

Too much to ask? Not in my opinion Al, in fact it is perfectly fine. Before this thread started, I have occasionly smoked while running the timer. I never really never thought about it........no one ever complained or asked me to put it out. If someone would have asked, I would have put it out or handed the timer off and thought none the less about it. I'm a considerate smoker (if there is such a thing) and don't smoke around people who are non-smokers if I can avoid it. But to insinuate that I am unsafe while timing with a smoke or with anything else in my hand is insulting to my intelligence and completely incorrect. That is my main problem with some of the comments on this thread.

 

Sun

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The funny thing is that even being allergic to the smoke I still like the smell of a good cigar... I just can't smoke one.

 

-Deadlee

 

That's because cigarettes have a lot of additives which many of us are allergic/sensitive to, and the cigars do not or the have very few ,or different ones.

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Like Deadlee, I am very Sensitive/allergic to cigarettes myself. Not as bad with cigars,unless the smoke is thick.

 

I get headaches, sometimes migranes, my nasal passages stop up sometimes 100%, which is miserable.

 

But COME ON!

 

We are outside, I would never ask a smoker to move or put it out shooting CAS.. That is just wrong. It's up to me to adjust..

 

These guys need SOME freedom.

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So...the possiblity of any hearing loss is harmless prank?

 

Good one!

Well, they are no worse than some folks BP SG shells. Maybe we should ban them. :unsure::rolleyes:

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