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Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217

TG Voting Process

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#7. Sorry, I just don't care.

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#4 ....seems so simple... can't imagine why there's even a resistance to it among TG's/ WB or anyone else for that matter. You go, you vote the way your club asked and the results are there for all to see.

 

Trust.... but verify... applies to teenagers, congress, representatives and treaty partners, too.

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#6

 

I see no need to publish the TG's name at all.

Just clubs, how they voted. And list all the clubs that did not take the time to vote.

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Madd Mike and Irish Tom, I put you down for No. 1.

 

Capt. Rum Morgan, waiting for reply.

 

Anyone with rude comments about this thread, I've created a item for that.

 

So far the TGs are turning out overwhelmingly in favor of No. 4 (9), as are the rest of you (17). I have three No. 1 and four No. 6 and one No. 7 (see edit).

 

Thank you for the kind words TMM and Dan!

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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Allie. Sorry, I really wasn't trying to be rude.

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I would prefer #6 because folks should already know who their TG is.

 

But I would be happy with 4, 5 or 6.

 

I'm afraid that many of us would still be disappointed to see that enough folks still voted against what we want. But such an effort as you suggest would help to clarify that, versus accusations of the TGs. Or it would surprise me and show a problem some TG's. Either way, it would clarify things.

 

It would take just a little more work, but I think it would be worth it for improved transparency.

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Hi Capt.,

 

Please pick one. One vote per person. I'm making a spreadsheet (sometimes I miss work :rolleyes:;) )

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

In that case I'll go with #4. ;)

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Allie. Sorry, I really wasn't trying to be rude.

Hi Tom,

 

I did not take it as rude. I counted your vote as a "no change." My hubby was that way (don't care). When one of our clubs asked him to be VP (VP was also the Match Director), he told them he would do it if they kept him out of the politics. Sometimes, I think I should follow his example. :rolleyes: I was talking abut someone else.

 

Marauder, I will put you down for 6.

 

Thanks Capt.!

 

Folks, please just give me your preferred one item.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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I guess my question is.....have you discussed this with the WB and volunteered to do the legwork? :rolleyes:

 

To answer your question, #3.

 

CC

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I don't have a problem with the TG's at all. I truly believe all of them voted as thier club asked them two. If one or two did not, does it really change much?

 

Why didn't ALL TGs' vote. That should be a big question. And what do we do about it?

 

My biggest issue is why the members of SASS (the shooters) voted they way they did? I would really like an explanation of why one thing passed or another failed. But I guess that should be another thread.

 

If my input counts, I would go for #4.

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#5. It would help determine which clubs may need to make changes. Like replacing TGs. No offense intended.

 

Also a small note that accompanies the votes that reminds us as to what percentage is used to make a change.

And whether it is a present percentage or a percentage of SASS Affiliated Clubs.

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I guess my question is.....have you discussed this with the WB and volunteered to do the legwork? :rolleyes:

 

To answer your question, #3.

 

CC

Cheyenne,

 

Nope. When asking the WB's permission to start a thread becomes a requirement, I will gladly do so. I am sure that if no one is interested in a change, the WB will ignore this. If they get a reasonable request for change they may entertain the motion. I am merely gathering data. It is up to them to decide if it is worth consideration or discussion at next year's regionals. Without support for a change (some data), they would not listen and I don't blame them

 

I do like seeing that most of the TGs responding have nothing to hide and are willing to have their votes published. If this goes no farther than folks noting that, I will be okay with it.

 

Phil, of course your input counts!

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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Allie Mo,

 

I know several TGs who were at the convention and ALL of them voted the way their clubs asked them too, including any proxies they may have been carrying. Since SASS tallies the votes by CLUB, not by TG, naming the TGs provides no additional information while exposing the TGs to possible harrasement. If the TG votes differently from how their club or their proxy instructed them to vote, that is a club matter and should be handled by the club. This, in my opinion that eliminates, #4.

 

If a club name is not present on the published list of voters, then they didn't vote, either in person or by proxy. Members of those clubs will know who they are and, again, this is a club issue that should be handled by the club. No need to publish that information. This, in my opinion, eliminates #5.

 

Thus, IMHO, the best answer is #6 as it provides everything necessary to verify the voting, for those who what it, while preserving the ability of each club to handle its own business in the way they see fit, not dragged out on the wire like dirty underware on a clothes line.

 

Finally, while I doubt that the vast majority of the TGs would have any problem with either 4, 5, or 6, I also doubt that publishing the list after the votes will stop the complaints. There will always be those who are unhappy with the outcome of any vote, and within that group there will always be those vocal few who will voice their displeasure in unflattering ways.

 

Regards,

 

Dogmeat (Who Missed His Hug At The Convention!) Dad

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Hi Dogmeat Dad,

 

Darn, I hate missing hugs. :rolleyes:

 

I will put you down for No. 6. If anyone else wants to change their vote after reading some folks thoughts, let me know. I have your names listed so it will be easy to change.

 

Thanks,

 

Allie

 

Edit for PS: Some folks prefer to have a specific individual (rather than Hipshot, no offence pard) take their proxy. Listing voting names would provide that information. I'm fine with 6 also. However, so far the 4s have it.

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Allie ... The Great of New Jersey casts it's vote for Number 3

Why? If 50% or more of the TGs/Clubs who didn't ... did attend or sent a Proxy, this Poll wouldn't even be happening!

If 90% or better of the Clubs did vote, I believe us SASS members would be rejoicing

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#6, for the reasons Dogmeat Dad gave.

 

I know who my TG is, and whether a club votes via proxy or in person is immaterial. If there's a problem with a TG, that's between the club and the TG, if it's a problem between the TG and who he selected to vote his proxy, that's between the club, TG and his proxy. Should be a self-correcting issue without influence from other clubs or parties.

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#6 works for me. List the clubs represented and how each voted. If the individual club member doesn't know the name of their elected or appointed TG, then shame on them. I'm sure a club on the West Coast could care less who the TG is of a club on the East coast. If they do care, we are all listed in the Chronicle anyway.

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Allie,

I need to change my vote...

 

I am beginning to like #6 a bit more now. I dont have a problem with the TGs name being there, but its already listed online and in the Chronicle. Save some paper and ink, and just list #6.

 

DM

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Requirements to be a TG...

 

A life member of SASS

 

Appointed/elected by the SASS affiliated club members he or she represents

 

The affiliated club's official representative at SASS Territorial Governor meetings

 

Committed to serving the interests of his or her club consistent with the promulgation and preservation of Cowboy Action Shooting and "the Spirit of the Game."

 

RO II Certified.

 

Computer savvy with current e-mail address on file at all times.

 

Since we are all supposed tob be "Computer savvy", why can't there be an electronic voting process? Sorry if this hijacks the premise of the thread.

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#7 for not following directions. (Hopefully not rude)

 

We put up the agenda on out web site as soon as it comes out. Our members or who ever else in the world visits our web site can click on the little voting box, we also leave a space where they can comment if they wish. We also receive emails and talk to folks in person. We end up with a "general" consensus on how they want our TG to vote.

 

Some of our folks are not club members but are SASS members and shoot with our club. Does that invalidate their ideas or comments?

 

Some SASS shooting venues do not have organized "clubs". (As in one of our local SASS cowboy shooting venue (they have a parent )) But they do have a TG. TG calls the Ranger Officer of the cas/sass venue, asks him what he thinks....votes.....Does that make him/her any less effective for the area that he is representing?

 

 

I have 3 TGS in our area. 2 of them asked me what I thought through emails and on line voting.

No one member necessarily knows what another member may want or not want.

 

I'm with Mad Mike....all they have to do is ask. It's not a secrete.

 

 

 

Now....if you print all the details..........John Doe is mad at my TG because he did not vote the way he wanted because John Doe has no idea how the rest voted, because our TG voted the way "most" wanted. That sets up a TG for a lot of heartburn. (now I'm dizzy)

 

 

 

I and my TG (married) do not have a problem with you publishing all the details about how he voted.

 

 

I know how Piedra Kidd voted as I typed up the 2 proxies that went to Hipshot. (could not attend convention because he still works for a living....not because we don't care.) I don't have any idea how our other 2 TG's voted. I assume they voted with what information they had. I have no reason to doubt it, and if I did.....I would ask.;)

 

 

 

So to make a long winded post even longer.....If enough SASS members are having nightmares on how their TG voted....I would go with #6. (If I get a vote.)

 

Post the name of the clubs that voted and how they voted. The members already know the name of their TG. And if they don't.....they don't really care how they voted in the first place. ;)

 

The list of TG's and what clubs they represent are already listed. Just click on it.

 

Communication between members and your TG is a two way street. Each needs to make the effort, one as a TG to get the information out there, and two as a member to ask questions if in doubt.

 

Stumble Leena + :rolleyes:

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Howdy,

Put me down for a #4

 

KK

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I'll add my personal frustration point with the TG process. Try finding anyone at SASS headquarters that can assist with telling you who your current TG is and then the real challenge once you find out is getting it changed to someone who is a current club member. We are a SASS affiliated club and I have maintained that affiliation info for our club for a number of years - it is a real challenge to get any of that information updated in a timely manner. We are at 3 months and counting on trying to update our club TG designation - I now have my 4th point of contact identified and so far no response. We did proxy our vote this year - partly because we could not get the TG designation changed in a timely manner.

 

Many of the rank and file club members at the clubs I shoot at do not have a clue who their TG is and what their responsibilities are. An area that could use some improvement.

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Many of the rank and file club members at the clubs I shoot at do not have a clue who their TG is and what their responsibilities are. An area that could use some improvement.

 

Tracker Mike,

 

This sounds like a communication issue between the "rank and file club members" and the leadership of said clubs. There's a TG list in at least one issue a year in The Chronicle. Of course, the easiest way to find out is for the member to ask the club officers. And the club officers should provide this information in whatever form (website, newsletter, pre-match announcement, annual meeting, etc.) is most appropriate. Same goes for responsibilities of same. This truly is a sad state of affairs for the clubs you mention.

 

Steeldust Dan, who hopes Allie doesn't get upset with me hijacking this thread.

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#4

 

This will protect those of us who try to do it right...

 

It is very sad though to see so many people not happy with their TG representation.

 

-Deadlee

 

 

Hey Folks,

 

This is really :rolleyes: that TGs are posting that they want publication of how they voted. It is a start of a rebuttal to those who doubt our integrity. Keep 'em coming!

 

Thanks,

 

Allie Mo

 

 

Since you requested that we vote for only one pick, I'll vote for #4.

 

I know several TG's, and overall, I hae NO worries about their integerty or how they vote their club's wishes. Being a TG in not just a honery position from a club, but the link between local Clubs and the SAS Wild Bunch. Every one I personaly know tries to "Do it Right", and do so to the best of their abiltys. And being a good TG is WORK.

 

My vote for #4 is simply because I feel that any voting body, TG's, Congress, Town Board, any governing body that votes on issues that concern all of us should have a public forum where their votes are posted for everyone to see. I can read the minuits of our town meeting and see how all my repesentives have voted on any issue, same with Congress, I feel that the SASS TG's should have the same accountability to the members.

 

I do began to wonder about TG's that DON'T want their votes made public, the same as I would wonder about my Congressman if he didn't want his votes made public.

 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

 

Greeenriver

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Guest Paniolo Cowboy SASS #75875

Dear Miss Allie Mo :rolleyes:

 

You know that I joined the Outlaws specifically so that I'd be able to vote for YOU as TG! I know you're a great TG!

 

And as for your poll, I like #6 Publish names of clubs that voted and how they voted (No names.)

 

I just don't see how publishing the names of specific club TGs are helpful when each club should know who there TG is. To my way of thinking, each club should know how their TG voted on the club's behalf. Then it's for the TG to justify their vote to the club if they voted against the wishes of their club.

 

Besides #6 and knowing the clubs that voted and how they voted, I'd like to see a list of how many clubs (by name and location) who did not send a TG or a Proxy vote.

 

As far as I'm concerned ALL SASS affiliated clubs should vote, and if they can't make it to the Convention then they should all sent a Proxy at the minimum.

 

I'm kind of curious how many people on here are in clubs who did not vote in person or by Proxy? Maybe they know why their club didn't vote?

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Many of the rank and file club members at the clubs I shoot at do not have a clue who their TG is and what their responsibilities are. An area that could use some improvement.

 

Tracker Mike,

 

This sounds like a communication issue between the "rank and file club members" and the leadership of said clubs. There's a TG list in at least one issue a year in The Chronicle. Of course, the easiest way to find out is for the member to ask the club officers. And the club officers should provide this information in whatever form (website, newsletter, pre-match announcement, annual meeting, etc.) is most appropriate. Same goes for responsibilities of same. This truly is a sad state of affairs for the clubs you mention.

 

Steeldust Dan, who hopes Allie doesn't get upset with me hijacking this thread.

No Problem!

 

Mike, look here for details about TG duties and who is listed as a club's TG.

 

Thanks Paniolo! When will you be back?

 

Triple E, got it.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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Guest Paniolo Cowboy SASS #75875
No Problem!

 

Mike, look here for details about TG duties and who is listed as a club's TG.

 

Thanks Paniolo! When will you be back?

 

Triple E, got it.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

Sweet Miss Allie Mo ;)

 

I will start shooting with the Outlaws again once the weather gets better. But since I've forgotten, I just need to know what time we start down there? :rolleyes:

 

By the way, good poll. No one's getting nasty yet? Imagine that!

 

Please have a Merry Christmas!

 

Hugs!

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#5 because it'd almost the same as #4, but a little kicker for members to pay attention to the fact that they have been left out of the process. It's unlikely that it's the TGs fault any more than it is theirs.

 

I don't mistrust any of my TGs in the least, but good/accurate information is useful. I could go on and on about how it could be useful, but at this point there is no use in doing so.

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I'll add my personal frustration point with the TG process. Try finding anyone at SASS headquarters that can assist with telling you who your current TG is and then the real challenge once you find out is getting it changed to someone who is a current club member. We are a SASS affiliated club and I have maintained that affiliation info for our club for a number of years - it is a real challenge to get any of that information updated in a timely manner. We are at 3 months and counting on trying to update our club TG designation - I now have my 4th point of contact identified and so far no response. We did proxy our vote this year - partly because we could not get the TG designation changed in a timely manner.

 

Many of the rank and file club members at the clubs I shoot at do not have a clue who their TG is and what their responsibilities are. An area that could use some improvement.

 

Mike -

 

Three of the four SASS Clubs you have listed in your profile are in the SASS Clubs List: North Carolina Clubs

 

Dingo Dave is the TG for Iredell Regulators

 

Sam Carp is the TG for Piedmont Gunslingers

 

Oklahoma Charlie is the TG for Old North State Posse

 

Now that wasn't so hard, was it? :rolleyes:

 

The Thornfield Rangers don't appear to be a SASS Affiliated Club, and they don't identify their TG on the Club Officers list, but I'll bet if you call them one by one you'll eventually find the TG.

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