Please help: problem transporting firearms

[Habanero]

I've got a real problem: I'm flying into San Francisco from Sydney on 3rd December with all of my guns, and I'm booked on a connecting flight with United Airlines to Salt Lake City. I've just found out that United has a policy that restricts passengers to checking in only one case containing a maximum of two rifles. (It's not on their website, but they have confirmed that this is their policy. Go figure.)

 

I need to figure out how to get my guns from San Francisco to Salt Lake City. I called UPS and they told me that they won't ship guns between individuals; only between FFL's. Great. I've got three cases, one of which only has an air rifle, which isn't even classified as a firearm by ATF.

 

Does anyone know a friendly and trustworthy FFL in San Francisco who could either ship the guns for me, or hold onto them until I can drive across from Salt Lake City to pick them up personally? I think that I can find an FFL in Salt Lake City who will accept the shipment for me.

 

I've gone through all of the paperwork required to export the guns from Australia and import them into the US. Now it's just this stupid airline, with its stupid policies that aren't even on its website, that is fouling up the whole operation. I'm coming across with my wife, three kids, a tonne of luggage and a dog. We're spending a small fortune to ship all of our household effects from Perth. The last thing I need is this mess with the guns.

[Nota John, SASS #51089L]

Have you checked into other airlines for the trip from Frisco to Salt Lake? It seems to me that Southwest is gun friendly if they do SF to SL. Just an idea. Nota John

[Grizzly Dave]

If you have two adults, one case each, that just leaves the air rifle?

[Habanero]

If you have two adults, one case each, that just leaves the air rifle?

 

Thanks, Dave. That did occur to me. But one of the cases has four handguns, one rifle and a shotgun. So if I struck a particularly nasty and uncooperative United employee at baggage check-in they could refuse to accept that case, regardless of how many adults are in the party.

 

I might be getting all worked up for nothing: they might just wave me through with this stuff. My my previous experiences with airline staff in the US tell me otherwise. Some can be nice, others not so much...

[Habanero]

Have you checked into other airlines for the trip from Frisco to Salt Lake? It seems to me that Southwest is gun friendly if they do SF to SL. Just an idea. Nota John

 

Thanks, John. Southwest (and, I suspect, every other airline) doesn't do a direct flight from Frisco to Salt Lake. With Southwest, you have to go via LA, Vegas, Phoenix or Denver. Seems to me that is just asking for someone to steal or damage the guns in transit. Might be the only solution. I'll email Southwest and find out what their policy is.

[Grizzly Dave]

Yeah, I hear ya, and you don't want to get stuck when you have a plane to catch. And given CA's whacky gun laws, that just mucks things up even worse.

 

Best of luck.

 

BTW, what brand of case you using for them? I'm hoping to travel to a match or two in the future by air and need a case.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

I'm just wondering who you spoke to that gave you the information that is not supported by their website.

Is it possible they were incorrect and their website is accurate?

I might make another phone call or two and speak with a supervisor - note their name and information and make sure what their policy is. Might be much ado about nothing.

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

Some of our pards travel with several guns all the time. A couple I know uses a big, wheeled case with at least 2if not three long guns plus four handguns, and another case with two or three long guns (two shooters, backup shotgun and rifle between em)

[Nate Kiowa Jones #6765]

I'm just wondering who you spoke to that gave you the information that is not supported by their website.

Is it possible they were incorrect and their website is accurate?

I might make another phone call or two and speak with a supervisor - note their name and information and make sure what their policy is. Might be much ado about nothing.

 

Creeker and I are both in the gun business. That info you got is wrong. If i were you I would go to a FedEx Gound Counter(not the Express counter or you will pay overnight rates) and Ship the guns from yourself to yourself. It is perfectly legal with the BATF.

 

This is from the BATF FAQ's

Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

 

...............................................................

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(4) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.28 and 478.31]

[Habanero]

I'm just wondering who you spoke to that gave you the information that is not supported by their website.

Is it possible they were incorrect and their website is accurate?

I might make another phone call or two and speak with a supervisor - note their name and information and make sure what their policy is. Might be much ado about nothing.

 

Unfortunately I emailed the airline after I spoke to the call-centre flunky. They confirmed the policy. Hence I am going to cancel the booking and avoid travelling with United in future. Very disappointing that they want to make travel more of a pain in the neck than it has to be.

[Habanero]

Yeah, I hear ya, and you don't want to get stuck when you have a plane to catch. And given CA's whacky gun laws, that just mucks things up even worse.

 

Best of luck.

 

BTW, what brand of case you using for them? I'm hoping to travel to a match or two in the future by air and need a case.

 

I've got two cases. One is an aluminium Winchester case:

 

http://www.aushunt.com.au/main/mainarticle...leid=21b98caf91

 

It folds out into two compartments, so you can put quite a few guns into it - I am packing 4 handguns, 1 Marlin 1894 and 1 SxS shotgun into it. Don't know how it will stand up to the punishment that baggage handlers dish out.

 

The other one is a Pelican 2-rifle case, in which I am transporting 2 scoped rifles - you could probably fit more guns than that if they don't have scopes. The Pelican case is supposed to be virtually indestructible. We'll see...

[Habanero]

Some of our pards travel with several guns all the time. A couple I know uses a big, wheeled case with at least 2if not three long guns plus four handguns, and another case with two or three long guns (two shooters, backup shotgun and rifle between em)

 

From what I've seen, the airlines each have their own entirely arbitrary rules on what they will and won't carry. I'm going to try Delta. If that doesn't work, I'll have to do an indirect route on Southwest. BTW, Southwest don't have any restrictions on what they'll carry. Guess who I'll be choosing in future...

[Habanero]

Creeker and I are both in the gun business. That info you got is wrong. If i were you I would go to a FedEx Gound Counter(not the Express counter or you will pay overnight rates) and Ship the guns from yourself to yourself. It is perfectly legal with the BATF.

 

This is from the BATF FAQ's

 

Thanks very much Steve. I'll check that out if I can't do anything with the airlines. I'm getting really tired of being told b.s. by call-centre morons.

[MMJ#89586]

Yes I believe you can use Fed Ex. However expect odd questions from them and they my act like they won't or don't want to ship guns; I've seen it happen before from them. They also charge $$$.

[Habanero]

Well, it looks like I'll be flying with Delta. Their website has come fairly arbitrary specifications on what they'll carry:

 

Rifles and Shotguns

Delta will accept firearms and shooting equipment packaged as follows:

 

One gun case containing up to a total of four rifles or shotguns, plus shooting materials, and tools

One gun case containing up to five handguns, one scope, and tools

One bow and quiver of arrows and maintenance kit enclosed in a case or container of sufficient strength to protect the bow and quiver from accidental damage

 

An excess baggage fee will apply to cases containing more than two rifles. You can check up to two shotguns and two shotgun cases. Ammunition is limited to 11 lbs. (5 kg). An excess baggage fee will apply to cases containing more than two shotguns.

 

I mean, would it really matter to them if I had 1 rifle and 6 hanguns in one case? Really...

 

Has anyone out there got any experience with Delta? Are they rigid regarding these rules?

 

Southwest has no restrictions, but I'd have to go via LA, Vegas, Denver or Phoenix with a change of planes. Might be a backup if I get messed around by Delta...

 

United can kiss my ass! Especially after what they did to that fella's guitar... Don't trust them with my babies.

[Blastmaster]

I imagine you have already purchased the airline tickets from SF to SL. If not, or if you can get a refund, then why not rent a car/van in SF and transport your guns and family to SL?

[C0ckr0ach, SASS #26100]

I travel several times a year with firearms.

 

I use USair and Southwest Air. Never a problem. Southwest is best as less baggage cost.

 

Delta is OK.

 

Air Tran experience is unknown to me.

 

Avoid all other airlines.

 

My experience.

[Ugly, SASS #18106]

Yeah, I hear ya, and you don't want to get stuck when you have a plane to catch. And given CA's whacky gun laws, that just mucks things up even worse.

 

Best of luck.

 

BTW, what brand of case you using for them? I'm hoping to travel to a match or two in the future by air and need a case.

 

I have a SKB double rifle case that I use; I can fit pistols and ammo along with the long guns. Great product, great company to deal with. One airline tried their best to destroy the case and guns inside it; the case was cracked and broken but the guns and ammo were protected and SKB immediately sent another case to me.

[Butch McGie, SASS#71758]

If u have the time u can drive from SF to Salt lake in one long day or 2 pleasant ones. Just a thought.

[Longshadow, SASS #70099]

What Butch says. OK so I'm retired and time is one thing I do have. We avoid airports and the flying cattle trucks posing as transportation like the plague. I'd rather drive all night than put up with the cr*p the airlines hand you.

[Ranger Sgt. Jake McCandless #3368]

All I can say is United Breaks Guitars

I don't care how long the drive is that's the method of choice. Adios Sgt. Jake

[Chief Rick]

I'd rather drive all night than put up with the cr*p the airlines hand you.

Plus a gazillion!!

 

I'm still active duty and my time is precious to me.

 

I'd rather ride my motorcycle 17 hours (1,100 miles) to visit my family than fly. Hell, with all the connecting flights and airport delays it usually took almost as long to fly anyways.

[Wolf Bane, SASS 13557]

Am puzzled...I routinely carry a large amount of hardware on United without problems. Coming back from Winter Range we had 6 long guns and 5 pistols in a couple of Alumacases...the United rep asked how we finished in the match, and that was it. Yesterday I flew with 5 pistols in a case on United...I signed the red tag, opened the case and tossed the tag in, then locked it up. No questions at all.

 

In fact, I can't remember the last time any airline rep asked me how many guns were in the case.

 

Ask for a supervisor's opinion.

 

Wolf Bane

SASS13357

[Lou Graham, # 26112]

I've had issues in the past with United, Delta and US Air. Southwest is a PITA in the connections department but firearms-friendly. They only require exactly what the TSA requires. No surpises. They have a good record on keeping the luggage with you, too. They have been my airline of choice for the last several years now.

[Habanero]

Am puzzled...I routinely carry a large amount of hardware on United without problems. Coming back from Winter Range we had 6 long guns and 5 pistols in a couple of Alumacases...the United rep asked how we finished in the match, and that was it. Yesterday I flew with 5 pistols in a case on United...I signed the red tag, opened the case and tossed the tag in, then locked it up. No questions at all.

 

In fact, I can't remember the last time any airline rep asked me how many guns were in the case.

 

Ask for a supervisor's opinion.

 

Wolf Bane

SASS13357

 

You have probably been lucky. It only takes one idiot on the check-in counter to wreck your day (and your whole trip). Unfortunately, when they have idiot rules to back them up there's nothing you can do about it. So I would rather fly with airlines that don't have idiot rules. It just removes one variable from the equation. They all have idiot check-in counter staff. That's something you can't avoid.

[Habanero]

If u have the time u can drive from SF to Salt lake in one long day or 2 pleasant ones. Just a thought.

 

Not keen to try my luck with the Sierras in December. We're coming from Perth, Western Australia. It doesn't snow there. Ever. I haven't driven in snow for years. Any other time of year, I'd be happy to drive - good excuse to visit some of my mates who are living in Elko.

 

Cheers

[Habanero]

I've had issues in the past with United, Delta and US Air. Southwest is a PITA in the connections department but firearms-friendly. They only require exactly what the TSA requires. No surpises. They have a good record on keeping the luggage with you, too. They have been my airline of choice for the last several years now.

 

Think I'd be more inclined to try Southwest if I wasn't faced with flying Perth-Sydney-Frisco beforehand. Going Frisco-Denver-Salt Lake after that is a bit much.

 

I've now got tickets on both Delta and United. Wife and kids are flying United. If United decides to make my life difficult with the guns, I'll try my Delta ticket. Failing that, there's Southwest.

 

Flying in Australia is a lot more fun. The cabin crew are not surly, like the ones on your American airlines. The food is generally edible, and is included in the price of the ticket on Qantas. Security screening is a lot more efficient. Air travel is an aspect of life in the US that I am not looking forward to.

[Larry Earp SASS#60034]

FedEx will not ship handguns via ground. Believe me I know. I just had a gunsmsith pull a cheapie on me and send a pair of custom one-of-a-kind Bisleys to me FedEx ground by declaring they were machinery parts and my local FedEx driver stole one of the guns. FedEx turned down my claim for $1.300 because handguns are a "prohibited item" under their ground rules. They have to go overnight air express and anyone who tries to be cute and try to send them ground by disguising what they are will learn the hard way that it's not worth the precieved savings. I'm out over $1.300 and one of a matched pair of unique Bisleys.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Not keen to try my luck with the Sierras in December. We're coming from Perth, Western Australia. It doesn't snow there. Ever. I haven't driven in snow for years. Any other time of year, I'd be happy to drive - good excuse to visit some of my mates who are living in Elko.

 

Cheers

 

Yup. I was stuck in Sacremento for 3 days onct in the first week of December tryin to get over to Reno. 3 successive early storms closed the roads. Never did make it over there.

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

If you choose to fly Southwest, keep in mind that they are not a part of the normal airline business interms of transfering tickets.

Southwest tickets do NOT convert to other airlines. You need to buy a new ticket. (this i know as i burned 6 hours in new orleans day after labor day.)

I don't know if Southwest accepts other airlines tickets.

[Mack Hacker, #60477]

FedEx will not ship handguns via ground. Believe me I know. I just had a gunsmsith pull a cheapie on me and send a pair of custom one-of-a-kind Bisleys to me FedEx ground by declaring they were machinery parts and my local FedEx driver stole one of the guns. FedEx turned down my claim for $1.300 because handguns are a "prohibited item" under their ground rules. They have to go overnight air express and anyone who tries to be cute and try to send them ground by disguising what they are will learn the hard way that it's not worth the precieved savings. I'm out over $1.300 and one of a matched pair of unique Bisleys.

 

 

I think the loss should be your gunsmith's problem, not yours.

 

The last time I shipped a handgun by Fed Ex, I told them it was a firearm and they asked specifically if I wanted it to go by air or ground. It cost me $18. I had just paid USPS $42 to ship the matching belt and holster that went with it. Nobody at Fed Ex knows what their own rules are. The same can be said for USPS.

[Jackaroo, # 29989]

Hi Habanero,

I regularly fly to the US without any airline/firearm problem on that side. The problem is usually this side?

If you are flying with Qantas why don't you book with American Airlines (AA) for the connecting flight? They code share and you just collect your bags at SF airport and go round to the AA term and put them on the belt there.

If you are flying with QF it also pays to get the letter of approval from Qantas, which is heaven if you encounter any difficult or non educated flight check in folks, I can assure you.

I have travelled on United & AA and normally use Southwest now as they fly to where I wanna go. Also try to take direct or non change of plane flights as this reduces chances of your luggage going astray.

Don't tell the check in staff what you have or how many in your bags, they're ignorant of the rules sometimes, just say this is my sporting equipment, & firearms. They don't check them; the TSA will check them out and they don't really have a problem with this. Beside most of them (airline check in) couldn't tell one firearm from another. The less information you give them the better, don't volunteer information or 'big note' yourself, only give them what they ask for. Be a stone trying to get blood out of!!!

Good Luck.

[Habanero]

Hi Habanero,

I regularly fly to the US without any airline/firearm problem on that side. The problem is usually this side?

If you are flying with Qantas why don't you book with American Airlines (AA) for the connecting flight? They code share and you just collect your bags at SF airport and go round to the AA term and put them on the belt there.

If you are flying with QF it also pays to get the letter of approval from Qantas, which is heaven if you encounter any difficult or non educated flight check in folks, I can assure you.

I have travelled on United & AA and normally use Southwest now as they fly to where I wanna go. Also try to take direct or non change of plane flights as this reduces chances of your luggage going astray.

Don't tell the check in staff what you have or how many in your bags, they're ignorant of the rules sometimes, just say this is my sporting equipment, & firearms. They don't check them; the TSA will check them out and they don't really have a problem with this. Beside most of them (airline check in) couldn't tell one firearm from another. The less information you give them the better, don't volunteer information or 'big note' yourself, only give them what they ask for. Be a stone trying to get blood out of!!!

Good Luck.

 

Thanks, Jackaroo. AA didn't quite work out with my itinerary - can't remember the reason now. I figure that I'll try getting the guns through on my original United ticket and keep the Delta ticket as backup.

 

I've talked to Qantas booking staff about the guns, and they tell me that there's a note against my booking saying that I'm approved to take them - they even got one back from United saying that it's OK with them, but I don't know whether it is going to help me at the other end if I encounter a real idiot.

 

Keeping schtum about the number and type of firearms in the cases is a good idea. If they ask, I'll probably just say there's a couple of rifles in each. They won't know any different.

 

Hopefully transferring the bags to a domestic flight once I arrive in Frisco won't involve any discussions with airline staff. Do you know whether I have to take the guns to a counter, or do they just put them onto the belt once I get through Customs?

 

Habanero

[Eamon Chute]

When are you comin' through San Francisco Habanero?

 

I live just 10 minutes away from the airport. So, if you need some help once ya' get here, give me a holler. PM me for my cell phone number if interested.

 

Eamon

[Cascade Charlie, SASS # 48668L]

It's been my experience that traveling with guns in the US is a lot simpler than folks are led to believe.

 

The LAST thing ANY airline wants to do is explain to ATF how they lost luggage containing firearms.

 

And as previously stated...check-in clerks don't give a rat's patoot how many rifles are in one case. I usually have a rifle, shotgun, and two pistols per case and never given a hard time.

 

As an aside...When we moved to Germany from the US and brought a dog and a cat with us, they came over as excess baggage for $80 a bag vs. the $320 to ship a pet. They were in pressurized compartments and taken care of very well. Also...fill their water dishes with frozen water...it doesn't spill on takeoff or landing and gives them just enough to drink when they need it.

 

I just happened to think that you guys are coming into summer as we're going into winter. So...lots of airlines have temperature restrictions on shipping pets. Please be sure to check into this. Shipping pets can actually be harder than shipping guns.

 

Sorry if you already know this...I don't mean to be preaching...

 

Hope this helps.