Stoeger Coach Guns

[Jack Tar, SASS# 15099]

 

    Back in 1997 I bought a Stoeger Coach Gun from another shooter. I don't remember ever using it as it was a backup for the old cut down Stevens 311. As time went on I started messing around with Winchester 97's and they worked well for me. Then I got into shooting Frontier Cartridge and had to go back to the double guns. For several years I used a Parker that had the first inch or so of the muzzles cut off and it served me well. Then I got hold of a Rossie hammered coach gun. The stock on it was all wrong for a shotgun (not enough drop in the stock) so the sucker was always shooting high. Went through the long  process of inletting it in basically 5 planes as the gun is assembled around the stock.  After that it was and still is a gem.  Also have a TTN that's also a gem. Unfortunately the chore of cleaning the brass and guns after a shoot got to be a bit overbearing so I went back to smokeless and the 97's. Fast fwd to my late 70's and some arthritis raising hell with me and my slick as a whistle 97's are difficult for me to use. 

    Tried to use the hammer guns again but the arthritis making cocking nasty. Went from the top of the pile to the bottom because of this.  That's when I broke out the Stoeger. We all know how stiff they are out of the box so I did all the things that make it into a gun instead of an exercise machine. Most of the troubles that I read about here on the wire are missing from this gun. The fit and finish are well done. The lock up is solid and appears to have 3/16" of engagement in the lugs. Apparently the older ones showed more QC than the later ones.

    Time for the range. Well that didn't go well at all! Thing was trying to smash my middle finger to pulp with the trigger guard. Fixed that with some leather wrapping and 1oz loads. Back to the range and still no joy.  Seems the left barrel was shooting a bit high but almost a foot to the left! Back home to the shop. Right barrel is improved cylinder and left is modified. That's what I find by measuring the choke diameters also and this is how a double should be set up. What's confusing is that the star markings on the bottom of the barrels are backwards!  They put 4 stars on the improved cylinder one and three on the modified. This is only as a point of interest, has nothing to do with regulation of the left barrel. Ya gotta wonder what goes on in Brazil. LOL

    The fix! Some years ago I read in a book about SXS shotguns written by a gunsmith, that he relieved some of the choke constriction in the direction needed to center the pattern on point of aim.  I did that on this gun taking out enough material to open that area of the choke .008" tapering back to the original ID on either side of the center of the cut. Looking at the muzzle the center of the cut is at 8 o'clock.  With that all smoothed up using hones it was back to the range. Aiming for the middle of a 12" square piece of plywood at 36' the pattern was almost dead center. Good enough for cowboy knockdowns for sure.

 

    

 

[Dapper Dave]

Good to know, thank you. I will test fire my brand new Stoeger Coach Gun this Saturday, according to theory and UPS. 

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

1 hour ago, Dapper Dave said:

Good to know, thank you. I will test fire my brand new Stoeger Coach Gun this Saturday, according to theory and UPS. 

I test fired mine today and it worked ok so now I’ll disable the automatic safety, cone the chambers slightly and lighten the opening lever spring. It actually seems to shuck STS and AA hulls ok now.

 

Randy

[Kidd Carson]

I'm new here so forgive me if I post a little about my experience.

 

I read all f the posts about Stoeger shotgun guns having trouble. Fortunately my new Stoeger Supreme Coach 12ga had none of those issues.

It was a little stiff opening at first. But after a couple of hundred rounds, cleaning and lubrication it has smoothed out nicely.

It always shucked the shells. So there was no need to hone or change the chambers.

I patterned the shotgun at 10 yards and 25 yards. It was on target as well. For the record I replaced the Stock chokes with FULL chokes and it still patterns out to 25 yards with no issues. So maybe I was lucky with my purchase.

 

I did read about the firing pins going bad after a time, so I bought two new pins and the tool to make the replacement easy.

I personally do not find the break open spring that difficult or the safety that cumbersome to use. BUT I'm new to the competition and stages.

 

So my questions - Should I still shorten the break open spring and remove the safety catch??  How much does shortening the spring do? Should the the shotgun just break open with gravity??

 

Thanks for your time

[Chief Rick]

7 minutes ago, Kidd Carson said:

 

So my questions - Should I still shorten the break open spring and remove the safety catch??  How much does shortening the spring do? Should the the shotgun just break open with gravity??

 

My opinion - if the gun is working 100% reliable, don't modify anything until you feel it's holding you back. 

 

If the shotgun breaks open far enough, and stays open, to allow you to shuck spent shells and insert new ones I wouldn't change a thing.

 

Making the springs too light will allow the action to break open under recoil of some loads after the first shot.

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

IMHO a lot of the problems folks have with Stoeger shotguns are self induced. Some folks buy a new Stoeger that is stiff because it is new. They can't wait on "slicking it up" until after they've broken it in, and they file and hone everything right away. Then after the shotgun is used for a while, and gets broken in, they can't understand why it opens when shooting, won't stay closed, both barrels go off at the same time, etc. Slicking up guns is fine, but you need to break them in first. Except for disabling the auto safety, honing the chambers, and putting in STSTL firing pins, I haven't had to do any other slicking up of my 3 Stoeger's after they got broken in.

[Silver Creek Jack]

56 minutes ago, Chief Rick said:

My opinion - if the gun is working 100% reliable, don't modify anything until you feel it's holding you back. 

 

If the shotgun breaks open far enough, and stays open, to allow you to shuck spent shells and insert new ones I wouldn't change a thing.

 

Making the springs too light will allow the action to break open under recoil of some loads after the first shot.

THIS!!

[Kidd Carson]

6 minutes ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

IMHO - "Slicking up guns is fine, but you need to break them in first. Except for disabling the auto safety, honing the chambers, and putting in STSTL firing pins, I haven't had to do any other slicking up of my 3 Stoeger's after they got broken in."

Thank you so much for the reply. I find "My" Stoeger works well for me right now. I like the safety, and when I practice with Snap caps (I have 4 of them) I do practice with the safety on and then off before the trigger pull.

 

What I have noticed with CAS shooting it is both Mental and physical. AND   "A man has got to know his limitations".

The mental part is remembering which targets to shot at and in what order.

The physical part is getting the practice in to load and unload, aiming and placing the shells in the shotgun after drawing them out of the holder.

 

I do practice with all of my firearms both live fire and with Snap caps. Drawing those revolvers and then hitting what you are pointing at is the hard part for me at this point.

 

Thanks for your reply and take care,

 

Allen

[Kidd Carson]

59 minutes ago, Chief Rick said:

My opinion - if the gun is working 100% reliable, don't modify anything until you feel it's holding you back. 

 

If the shotgun breaks open far enough, and stays open, to allow you to shuck spent shells and insert new ones I wouldn't change a thing.

 

Making the springs too light will allow the action to break open under recoil of some loads after the first shot.

Thanks Rick,

 

That has been my thought for awhile. But everyone has an "opinion" and like some body parts - some "opinions" stink.

 

Thanks again,

 

Allen

[Kidd Carson]

Thanks to everyone for the quick replies and suggestions. I will follow those and keep practicing to get better at what I do.

 

As Clint Eastwood said - "A man has got to know his limitations". At 72 I think I have a good understanding of what those limitations are today. Maybe not when I was 20. LOL

 

Thanks to all and take care. Have a Happy Thanksgiving to all. Enjoy your families if you can.

[Dred Bob]

1 hour ago, Kidd Carson said:

 

So my questions - Should I still shorten the break open spring and remove the safety catch??  How much does shortening the spring do? Should the the shotgun just break open with gravity??

 

Thanks for your time

 

If you decide to modify the spring there is a drop in replacement kit that allows you to adjust the tension by swapping some spacers.  You can save the original spring and adjust the drop-in as needed later by changing spacers.   It's a pretty easy change.  I did it proving that no actual skill required.

 

https://pvgunworks.com/product/stoeger-top-lever-spring-kit/

 

I wouldn't permanently disable the safety but I did remove a bit of the reset bar so it doesn't get activated automatically.  I can still manually engage the safety.  Seemed like a reasonable compromise. 

[Kidd Carson]

Thanks Bob,

 

That is a good idea. Removing a "bit" of the reset bar but still allowing the safety to be engaged is a good thing in my humble opinion.

 

Question - How much did you remove?? Or was it trail and error to get what you wanted??

 

Allen

[Jack Tar, SASS# 15099]

37 minutes ago, Kidd Carson said:

At 72 I think I have a good understanding of what those limitations are today.

When I was 72 I was still runin' and gunin' pretty good. Limitations was a word in the dictionary or so I thought. Seven years later is a different story. I don't miss very often but between difficulty handling and loading the shot gun plus the brain farts mid stage, my times have gone totally to hell. Getting this Stoeger running good and hitting where it should, theoretically will get me at least back to mid pack.  That's the plan! We'll see how that works out. LOL

     By the way, I did install the gunworks top lever spring and converted the safety to manual only. Totally voiding the safety is stupid.

[Dred Bob]

3 hours ago, Kidd Carson said:

Thanks Bob,

 

That is a good idea. Removing a "bit" of the reset bar but still allowing the safety to be engaged is a good thing in my humble opinion.

 

Question - How much did you remove?? Or was it trail and error to get what you wanted??

 

Allen

 

with the action open I marked the bar with a sharpie then cut the bar leaving about 1mm extending past the bracket.  It should make sense when you see how it works.  I removed it and cut it with a dremel and replaced the spring with the custom drop-in. 

Edited November 27 by Dred Bob

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

14 minutes ago, Dred Bob said:

 

with the action open I marked the bar with a sharpie then cut the bar leaving about 1mm extending past the bracket.  It should make sense when you see how it works.  I removed it and cut it with a dremel and replaced the spring with the custom drop-in. 

It’s been several years since I did one but I disabled the automatic safety similar to what you said. For the lever spring I used a spring the same length with a smaller diameter Wire and it worked fine. I found it going through assorted spring stock.

 

Randy

[Dapper Dave]

Mine patterned to the left somewhat,  but I sure it was me. Empties shucked right out with no problem.  Action is very stiff, but I will be buying ammo to break it in, since I have no shotgun loading equipment yet. Gun worked perfectly, but the pattern seemed huge for a modified choke. I shoot 00 buck from cylinder bore 870s at 25 yards and keep all 90 pellets inside the 8 ring of a B27, so this spreads a bit wider. I'll buy some buckshot just to compare. 

[Jack Tar, SASS# 15099]

19 minutes ago, Dapper Dave said:

but the pattern seemed huge for a modified choke.

Just wondering if your gun came with screw in chokes or fixed. My chokes are fixed.  Also wondering if it has 1 or two triggers. If the patterns pretty much overlap see where your eye lands naturally when you shoulder the gun. If you are a bit off center to the left that could be the reason. The stock needs more "cast on" if you are a right hand shooter. If your a lefty you need more cast off. That can be accomplished by removing some material from the stock where your cheek lands for right hand shooter or adding some for a lefty. 

[Dapper Dave]

Chokes are fixed. Two triggers. That would work on a wood stock - this is synthetic. I think the rule book prohibits a rear bead sight on the scattergun, so I guess I'll have to figure something else out. 
Thank you all for your time and ideas, much appreciated. 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

44 minutes ago, Dapper Dave said:

I think the rule book prohibits a rear bead sight on the scattergun

The Handbook only states that front sights (plural), may be bead or simple post types.

 

Phantom

[Boggus Deal #64218]

^^^^ This. As Phantom eludes to, no restrictions on number of beads.
My question is have you went and shot at typical shotgun knockdown targets at typical distances? No need to “pattern” a shotgun for this game. 

[Kidd Carson]

8 hours ago, Dred Bob said:

 

with the action open I marked the bar with a sharpie then cut the bar leaving about 1mm extending past the bracket.  It should make sense when you see how it works.  I removed it and cut it with a dremel and replaced the spring with the custom drop-in. 

Thanks Bob,

 

I will look into that. I know there are stock parts available, so I'll try that as well. In that way I will not void the warranty on the shotgun, IF I need it in the near future.

[Kidd Carson]

Just now, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

^^^^ This. As Phantom eludes to, no restrictions on number of beads.
My question is have you went and shot at typical shotgun knockdown targets at typical distances? No need to “pattern” a shotgun for this game. 

Thanks Boggus,

 

I do reload my own shot shells with .94oz of #7.5 lead shot and 17.4gr of Winchester Super Handicap powder. The results are good for knocking down the tombstones our club uses and recoil is mild. Not like Winchester AA Low recoil/Low noise shot shells, but close. Noise is relative without a DB meter.

[Kidd Carson]

Jack - "When I was 72 I was still runin' and gunin' pretty good. Limitations was a word in the dictionary or so I thought. Seven years later is a different story. I don't miss very often but between difficulty handling and loading the shot gun plus the brain farts mid stage, my times have gone totally to hell. Getting this Stoeger running good and hitting where it should, theoretically will get me at least back to mid pack.  That's the plan! We'll see how that works out. LOL"

 

Well between NOT taking care of my body when I was younger as a mechanic along with football, and with cancer - I have had some issues lately. So I do what I can with what the body will allow. BUT I love shooting and being around people who are so friendly. PLUS dressing the part really takes me back 6 decades or so. 

 

Take care and Happy Thanksgiving

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

1 hour ago, Dapper Dave said:

Chokes are fixed. Two triggers. That would work on a wood stock - this is synthetic. I think the rule book prohibits a rear bead sight on the scattergun, so I guess I'll have to figure something else out. 
Thank you all for your time and ideas, much appreciated. 

 

47 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

The Handbook only states that front sights (plural), may be bead or simple post types.

 

Phantom

 

"Ventilated ribs and mid-barrel beads are allowed on all types of shotguns."

SHB p.33

[Dapper Dave]

Ah, mid barrel beads, I saw the front sight thing and then the last statement that says any modification not listed is expressly prohibited. Thank you, and I've intruded on this man's thread long enough. 

[Dapper Dave]

51 minutes ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

^^^^ This. As Phantom eludes to, no restrictions on number of beads.
My question is have you went and shot at typical shotgun knockdown targets at typical distances? No need to “pattern” a shotgun for this game. 

15 yards, yes. And patterning simply to find where the bulk of the shot went. Right barrel, standing, 15 yards, tape cross aiming point. Shell was a Remington Gun Club Target #8 shot. Given the size of the knock down targets I've seen so far, I shouldn't have much difficulty. 

 

 

Edited November 28 by Dapper Dave

[Griff]

45' might be quite a bit farther for target placement as normally found at most ranges I've shot or visited.  I would estimate an average distance closer to 15-20 feet.

[Dapper Dave]

Sorry, Griff, I was going off the RuleBook;

Shotgun targets: 8 to 16 yards. 

Also, the only match I shot, shotgun targets seemed to be a bit farther than 15 feet in some cases, especially the ones with the clay pigeon flippers - those were quite neat. But as noted, it probably will do just fine just the way it is. 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

49 minutes ago, Dapper Dave said:

Sorry, Griff, I was going off the RuleBook;

Shotgun targets: 8 to 16 yards. 

Also, the only match I shot, shotgun targets seemed to be a bit farther than 15 feet in some cases, especially the ones with the clay pigeon flippers - those were quite neat. But as noted, it probably will do just fine just the way it is. 

Those are not rules but suggestions.

 

15 feet is a bit...close...

 

Phantom

[Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409]

Based on my personal experience from a different firearm : If it aint broke then dont fix it!

It happened with one of my capguns that was working perfectly...after speaking with a friend about how he had setup his guns I had to change mine. That was my mistake. Problem  resolved but now on to another modification.

 

Hochbauer

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

At  least disable the auto saftey.