Marlin 1894SS 38/357 Missfires

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

I have a Marlin 1894SS in 357 that I shoot 38 Special in that I bought new 13 years ago, and is my backup rifle now. The two piece firing pin was replaced with a one piece, and the extractor was replaced with a Ranger Point extractor. The rifle has never given me a problem until recently. Earlier this year at a shoot in a string of 10 rounds maybe 3 will not go off, but will fire if I recock the hammer and fire it again. I pulled the bolt, removed and inspected the firing pin (which looks fine), cleaned the bolt inside and out figuring maybe some crud somewhere, and reassembled it. I took it to a shoot yesterday and it did the same thing. Looking at the back of the bolt and firing pin, it looks like the full forward travel of the pin is about maybe a 1/64" inside the back of the bolt. Should I take a jewlers file and dress up the back of the bolt a little where the firing pin goes through? FYI I shoot the same ammo in my other Marlin 1894 and it works just fine so I don't think it's my reloads. Thanks!

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Are the primers fully seated to the bottom of the primer pocket? 

Did you install a lighter hammer spring?

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

7 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Are the primers fully seated to the bottom of the primer pocket? 

Did you install a lighter hammer spring?

Primer seating looks fine.

The gun is completely stock except the one piece firing pin and the extractor. The springs were never changed.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Was this a factory new gun when you bought it?

[Tell Sackett SASS 18436]

10 minutes ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

Primer seating looks fine.

The gun is completely stock except the one piece firing pin and the extractor. The springs were never changed.

The spring has weakened! Get some small washers and add in FRONT of the spring. This will increase its tension. Do one at a time and re test fire.

We’ve had to do this many times over the years!

Or get a new spring maybe 

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

52 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Was this a factory new gun when you bought it?

Yes Lumpy I purchased it brand new in 2011. I used it for two years steady until I got my Uberti '73 at which time it became my backup rifle. Now I shoot it one maybe two times a year. It worked flawlessly until two shoot ago when this problem started.

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

43 minutes ago, Tell Sackett SASS 18436 said:

The spring has weakened! Get some small washers and add in FRONT of the spring. This will increase its tension. Do one at a time and re test fire.

We’ve had to do this many times over the years!

Or get a new spring maybe 

Thanks Sackett. I will give it a try with the washer(s).

[Tell Sackett SASS 18436]

32 minutes ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

Thanks Sackett. I will give it a try with the washer(s).

Very small, very thin. Best to take the piece they go on with you to the hardware store!

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Go to Ace Hardware and buy a few #10 AN washers. 

Use them, one at a time, at the base of the hammer spring. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Try some factory ammo also.....

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

OK, we have two suggestions.  One says washers at the front of the spring.  And, one says washers at the base.  Let's vote.  

 

Vote A - front, purple arrow  OR  Vote B - base, green arrow.  

 

This is more exciting than Rank Points vs Total Time.

 

 

 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

To tell you the truth OP since you have replaced the firing pin with a one piece I would get one of these kits.  Has shims to adjust tension and will make a noticeable difference in levering effort.

 

[Eyesa Horg]

I vote for base!

[Widder, SASS #59054]

And..... I vote 'A' for good reason:   the front of SOME springs can start to crawl over the collar of the hammer

strut.   The washer prevents this.

Even 1/2 of a coil can effect primer ignition, especially when its an older and weaken'd spring.

 

Longhunter has good springs as well as the Palo Verde spring kit, which are very good spring kits.

 

Because you've never experienced this situation before, I would not mess with the rear of the bolt at this time.

 

There is a slight possibility that the 'cuts' in your firing pin might be off just a few .000's and not allowing the

firing pin to move forward that last little movement.  This can be remedied by slightly lengthening those

'scalloped cuts' a little at their rearward stopping area.   BUT, if your primer strikes look good and solid, 

there is no need to mess with the firing pin.

 

My guess is what Tell said.

 

Best regards

 

..........Widder

 

[Eyesa Horg]

Uncle Widder makes a good point.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

57 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

OK, we have two suggestions.  One says washers at the front of the spring.  And, one says washers at the base.  Let's vote.  

 

Vote A - front, purple arrow  OR  Vote B - base, green arrow.  

 

This is more exciting than Rank Points vs Total Time.

 

 

 

B

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

OP

Check ALL screws for tightness. 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

1 hour ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

OK, we have two suggestions.  One says washers at the front of the spring.  And, one says washers at the base.  Let's vote.  ...

I don't know Marlins so I will compromise and say put it in the middle.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

High Spade Mikey,

 

One more thought.

Do you know if those misfires actually had a firing pin 'kiss mark' on them or no mark at all.

 

I ask because its possible that if the hammer didn't make full contact with the firing pin, your CROSS BOLT safety

could be slightly shifting.  Its an odd occurrence, but its still something that could cause this effect.

 

Just a thought.

 

Best regards

 

..........Widder

 

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

13 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

High Spade Mikey,

 

One more thought.

Do you know if those misfires actually had a firing pin 'kiss mark' on them or no mark at all.

 

I ask because its possible that if the hammer didn't make full contact with the firing pin, your CROSS BOLT safety

could be slightly shifting.  Its an odd occurrence, but its still something that could cause this effect.

 

Just a thought.

 

Best regards

 

..........Widder

 

Yes they have a kiss mark on them. The very first thing I checked was the safety and it was disengaged. I even have an o ring on the button to keep it from moving. Based on the replies I’m leaning toward the spring and will do the washer idea. Thanks to all for the suggestions.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

7 hours ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

Yes they have a kiss mark on them. The very first thing I checked was the safety and it was disengaged. I even have an o ring on the button to keep it from moving. Based on the replies I’m leaning toward the spring and will do the washer idea. Thanks to all for the suggestions.

Please keep us updated. 

[Lazy Eeyour]

While any of the suggestions could be correct.

Did you open a new box of primers? The fact that you stated it fires on the second try would make me think it is primer seating related. Do the current primers measure the same of some older ones. If the primer is shorter in height they may have to seated deeper. If the diameter is larger they may be harder to seat. Vista Outdoors stated the name on the box has no meaning, a primer is a primer.

[Eyesa Horg]

8 hours ago, Lazy Eeyour said:

Vista Outdoors stated the name on the box has no meaning, a primer is a primer.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

On 7/23/2024 at 7:58 AM, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

Yes they have a kiss mark on them. The very first thing I checked was the safety and it was disengaged. I even have an o ring on the button to keep it from moving. Based on the replies I’m leaning toward the spring and will do the washer idea. Thanks to all for the suggestions.

Any updates? 

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

4 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Any updates? 

I took the rifle apart and added a #10 washer to the front of the hammer spring. I ran a couple of primer only cases through it and all fired. I'll take it along with me this weekend to a shoot and shoot a stage with it full magazine after the shoot and see how she does. I'll let you know.

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

13 hours ago, Lazy Eeyour said:

While any of the suggestions could be correct.

Did you open a new box of primers? The fact that you stated it fires on the second try would make me think it is primer seating related. Do the current primers measure the same of some older ones. If the primer is shorter in height they may have to seated deeper. If the diameter is larger they may be harder to seat. Vista Outdoors stated the name on the box has no meaning, a primer is a primer.

LE I don't think it's primer related. Case in point I use the same ammo in both of my Marlin '94s. Only the '94SS started having this issue recently at the last two shoots I took it to. When I switch to the other '94, with the same box of ammo, and it runs flawlessly.

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

UPDATE:  Took the Marlin along to a shoot yesterday. After the match I loaded it up and shot a stage with it. It worked flawlessly. Not one missfire. Looks like adding one washer to the hammer spring did the trick. Thank you all for your suggestions and help in fixing this problem.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

30 minutes ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

UPDATE:  Took the Marlin along to a shoot yesterday. After the match I loaded it up and shot a stage with it. It worked flawlessly. Not one missfire. Looks like adding one washer to the hammer spring did the trick. Thank you all for your suggestions and help in fixing this problem.

Good to hear this! 

[Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L]

On 7/22/2024 at 11:46 AM, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

And..... I vote 'A' for good reason:   the front of SOME springs can start to crawl over the collar of the hammer

strut.   The washer prevents this.

Even 1/2 of a coil can effect primer ignition, especially when its an older and weekend spring.

 

Longhunter has good springs as well as the Palo Verde spring kit, which are very good spring kits.

 

Because you've never experienced this situation before, I would not mess with the rear of the bolt at this time.

 

There is a slight possibility that the 'cuts' in your firing pin might be off just a few .000's and not allowing the

firing pin to move forward that last little movement.  This can be remedied by slightly lengthening those

'scalloped cuts' a little at their rearward stopping area.   BUT, if your primer strikes look good and solid, 

there is no need to mess with the firing pin.

 

My guess is what Tell said.

 

Best regards

 

..........Widder

 

I'm with Widder on this

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

3 hours ago, Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L said:

I'm with Widder on this

I have seen the washer contact the receiver/trigger bar, when cocked in location 'A'.

If you are using a cut down spring. Place the cut side against the spring bracket.

[Dusty Devil Dale]

Is the entire length of the firing pin hole clean?  No crud at the front end?