Scouting America

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

31 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

Not disagreeing with you on this particular point...

 

 

I hear ya, Sarge.

 

Back in the '70's I heard that the CHP was hiring.  I hauled my carcass on down to apply ~ and was told that they would not take my application... wrong ethnicity.  A few years later, I heard that they were hiring again.  This time my application was not accepted because I was the wrong gender.  Ah well.  

 

So I ended up being sentenced to a career in banking and accounting.  All in all, I think law enforcement would've been a hell of a lot safer.  

[Henry T Harrison]

50 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

Not disagreeing with you on this particular point. I haven't dealt with Scouting since I quit over the jackass's in my Troop whose father was supposed to coordinate transportation to a weekend campout one weekend got their father to LEAVE me at the site waiting on MY dad who wasn't supposed to drive. 

When my daughter was of the age to join Girl Scouts, (we didn't know there WERE other options), I was all ready to help out, except the Girl Scouts couldn't figure out who their own Troop Leaders were supposed to be. 

But that has nothing to do with this. My comment wasn't directed at Scouting, but only what usually happens when girls and women try to join a normally male activity, profession, or whatever. Back in the '70's, when the Columbus Ohio, (where I grew up), Police Dept. started having to hire female Patrol Officers, out of the first group they gave a Physical Agility test to, and it was a FEMALE version of the test, only one passed. They had to lower the qualifications to pass enough women to even have a class. When they finally hit the streets, two of these women had traffic accidents in their Cruisers in the first week.  

So while this might not be indicative of Scouting, it IS a valid point in most cases.

When I was doing the physical evaluation for hiring in multiple departments in our county what kept most of the women from passing was scaling a six wall. In my forty year career I never once had to do that 

[sassnetguy50]

@Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967

Isn't there a time element to the palms as well, like 6 months of active scouting after earning Eagle per palm.  Thus awarding scouts who actively seek Eagle instead of procrastinating until they are nearing the 18th birthday deadline.

[Henry T Harrison]

13 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

It's late, and I'm too tired to really get into this tonight, but I'll toss out a few comments.

 

However, I will ask:  Of you who have voiced extreme disapproval above, how many are involved in Scouting?  How many of you have spent years donating up to twenty hours a week (or more) to helping direct youth?  How many of you have actually bothered to do any research beyond reading some knee-jerk article about how terrible this "name change" is?  (By the way - the Boy Scouts of America name remains; the organization was chartered under that name by Congress in 1916.  "Scouting America" is a DBA that actually makes sense from a marketing perspective with the inclusion of girls). 

 

Oh... and speaking of girls!

 

Prior to 2017,  there were 38 million scouts in 169 national organizations.  Of those, fourteen restricted Scouting to boys only: Bahrain, Barbados, Botswana, Kuwait, Lesotho, Liberia, Pakistan, Papua New Guinea, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Swaziland, UAE, and Yemen.  And the United States of America.  Pretty heady company we were keeping, huh?  Heck, even Afghanistan's program was co-ed!  That is, until our illustrious president handed the country back to the Taliban.

 

When our council held our first Camporee with "Girl" troops participating, the bar was raised:  the young ladies (who DO have their own troops) kicked ass!  They won almost every competition.  Younger and far less experienced, they were that focused and that intent on proving themselves. 

 

I have had the honor and privilege of chairing or serving on over 130 Eagle Boards of Review.  Now, let me tell you about my district's first female Eagle Scout....

 

Most (not all, but definitely most!) of the male Eagle candidates struggle to meet all the requirements by the 18th birthday mandatory deadline.  Imagine my surprise when I received Zoe's application and "book," and discovered that she was a fifteen-year old high school freshman!  But, at fifteen, she had already earned over twice the required number of merit badges.  She was - and remains - a straight A student.  She was a cheerleader, active in FFA and 4-H, volunteered at the local library, involved with her church, and was also an active Girl Scout.  Oh - and she had earned her AA before she began her junior year of high school.  And not surprisingly, to sit and talk with her, you would find that she comes across as a very pleasant but typical young lady of her age.

 

By the way ~ how many of you know that Scouts has a Cowboy Action Shooting program?

 

I could go on for pages, but like I said, it's late. I spent a few hours doing Scoutie stuff tonight; I'm ready for an adult beverage and some winding down.  But first, one last anecdote:

 

I recently invited a gentleman I know through my writing group to participate in an Eagle Board of Review.  Dennis had earned his Eagle back in the early 1960's, is a retired Navy Commander, Navy pilot, and retired airline pilot.  He was hesitant, but did serve on the board.  At the end of the evening, he thanked me sincerely for including him - and actually used the same phrase I've used for years - "This evening has done wonders in restoring my faith in the youth of our country!"   

 

Hardpan

whose Scouting CV includes "Den Mother," Cubmaster, Assistant Scoutmaster, Unit Commissioner, District Commissioner, Assistant Council Commissioner, Acting District Advancement Chair, Acting District Training Chair, Eagle Chair, District Vice Chair, Acting District Chair, Merit Badge Counselor (14 badges, including most of the Eagle required badges), Camp Commissioner, Wood Badge (Fox patrol - staff 3x), Charter Organization Representative... and more.  Lots more. 

 

  

I was involved in scouting as a scout from Cub to life scout when the troop folded under me. I then became an Explorer until I left for college. My son is an Eagle and I was involved WITH him for the whole journey from Tiger to Eagle. I was a charter member of the Council Urban Emphasis Program. So I have been totally involved.

In my humble opinion dropping the word Boy was a good idea.  How many adolescent young men wanted to be identified as Boy. As far as girls in scouting show me the harm they have done 

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

21 minutes ago, Henry T Harrison said:

When I was doing the physical evaluation for hiring in multiple departments in our county what kept most of the women from passing was scaling a six wall. In my forty year career I never once had to do that 

 

Henry, that brought a grin and a chuckle!  I actually enjoyed the wall when I took the physical for the SFPD. 

 

Anyway, I was talking with our Sheriff and county supervisor recently (at a Scout event, not surpisingly), and the subject of recruiting challenges came up. 

 

"Ya want a job?"  the Sheriff asked.

 

"Dude!  I'm in my seventies!" I replied.

 

"We don't care about that anymore!  If you can make it over the wall, you're in!"  

 

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

43 minutes ago, sassnetguy50 said:

@Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967

Isn't there a time element to the palms as well, like 6 months of active scouting after earning Eagle per palm.  Thus awarding scouts who actively seek Eagle instead of procrastinating until they are nearing the 18th birthday deadline.

 

There was a three-month interval requirement between palms; that was rescinded as of this year.  Scouts can now earn palms as fast as they can complete the merit badges.  Also, the requirement for a palm board of review ended several years ago.  

 

                                                

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

1 hour ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

 

 

I hear ya, Sarge.

Back in the '70's I heard that the CHP was hiring.  I hauled my carcass on down to apply ~ and was told that they would not take my application... wrong ethnicity.   

Same time frame. My friend and I were bent on joining the Columbus Fire Dept. The whole thing that started the City hiring women was a lawsuit by "people of color" as they are called these days, claiming that the City didn't have enough of "them" on the Police and Fire Dept. So when after a two year or three year hiring freeze to settle the suit, they DID start giving Civil Service Tests, they were court ordered that for every 100 applicants to take the top 50 whites, top 40 blacks, and top 10 other. Under the previous rules, I would have been the second class, but under the new guidelines, when I wasn't hired after the second class, I said the heck with it and enlisted in The Marines. My friend went on to drive a truck.

Edited May 10 by Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770

[Rip Snorter]

End of an era, though it has been a long, slow decline.  I enjoyed it when it was real, as did my Dad before me.  I would not encourage a grandchild to join.

[MizPete]

11 hours ago, bgavin said:

He told me scouts went co-ed several years ago,

As you know, scouting began in England & when we were there (2012) the grandsons' troops were still co-ed.  I went on several outings with them (including a lovely viewing of the Thames from St. Katherine's wharf when Her Majesty and her party sailed by.  I stood a couple of the girls on a folding chair to view their passing).  The food was first class.

Edited May 11 by MizPete

[Rip Snorter]

Actually, Baden Powell chose as his template Selous Scouts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Baden-Powell,_1st_Baron_Baden-Powell

[bgavin]

My grandson will be eligible to join Scouts in 2 more years when he turns 10.

Our Masonic Shrine temple sponsors a troop here, that is the gold standard for Scout troops.
Scouting + Masonic values will be a strong positive influence on the young man.

 

My principle concern with co-ed is overnight camping trips and hanky-panky.
My other concern is homosexual scout leaders as predators.
I don't see a problem with this in the Shrine troop.

 

[Ustas B. Slim 24680]

It s not about whether the girls are capable or dedicated.  Its about having sex specific groups to deal with sex specific differences in general learning styles, pace of physical and emotional maturation and the unique developmental stages problems that impact each of the sexes differently.

 

Scouting America has been captured by the DEI crowd.  There are multiple fact based analysis of the whole DEI program that more than adequately demonstrate that the DEI program is neo-Marxism replacing the class based oppression narrative with an identity-base oppression narrative.  DEI is globalist, collectivist and inherently counter to the principles of  personal excellence, merit and self-sufficiency that was core to the philosophy of Boy Scouts of America.  And while Christianity was never core to Scouting, DEI is also aggressively anti-Christian in praxis.

 

And as to the Girls Scouts of the USA, they fell to the long march thru the institutions decades ago.

 

Look to the national leadership of both organizations, who they where trained by, and who their donors are  and where they donate their money. and you will see that their values are not the same values that Scouting had when I was a boy.

 

And I really don't care a large rodent's posterior what is done in other countries.

[Alpo]

1 hour ago, Ustas B. Slim 24680 said:

And I really don't care a large rodent's posterior what is done in other countries

I wish more people would say that. Loudly.

 

I've said it often. I'm American. I don't care how they do it in England. I don't care how they do it in Germany, or France, or Australia, or Saudi Arabia, or Japan.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

3 hours ago, Ustas B. Slim 24680 said:

And I really don't care a large rodent's posterior what is done in other countries.

If other countries are so great, why do WE have an illegal immigration problem with people leaving there, risking life and limb to get here? And why are these "older, more refined", etc. countries NOT the world leader our country is? Why is America the standard by which everything is measured?

Even with the problems we now face, most of which we've either brought upon ourselves, or allowed others to bring on us, The United States of America IS the greatest place on Earth!  

[Texas Jack Black]

 If you can not see the problem you may be part of the problem.

 

Best Wishes

[Henry T Harrison]

And how involved in scouting are you 

[Texas Jack Black]

13 hours ago, Henry T Harrison said:

And how involved in scouting are you 

 grew up in scouting.

 

Best Wishes

[Henry T Harrison]

3 hours ago, Texas Jack Black said:

 grew up in scouting.

 

Best Wishes

I guess I’m part of the problem 

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

2 hours ago, Henry T Harrison said:

I guess I’m part of the problem 

 

Henry, I'm right proud to stand on the "problem child" dais with you.  

 

                      

 

And here's a sampling of our "problem children" youth of recent years... just a few from my son's troop whom I was able to help on their journey to the Eagle rank, including serving on their review boards:

 

These young men made made a weekly 130+ mile round trip from the mountains to the valley to attend Scout meetings.

 

Ahh... the brothers.  At the time this was taken, the gentleman on the right had just graduated from the Air Force Academy.  His younger brother on his right, is at the Academy now.  I think I chaired both their review boards.

 

... this young fellow chose West Point.

 

And then there are the little ones... starting out like the fellas above did. But uh oh... wait... there are little girls in the bunch!  They actually participated in the Pinewood Derby!  Oh my!  

                 

 

Yup, Henry ~ that's us.  Just problem guys.  Right out of Hillary's "basket of deplorables," I reckon.  

 

  

 

 

[Texas Jack Black]

3 hours ago, Henry T Harrison said:

I guess I’m part of the problem 

I think you are misinterpreting what I posted

 

 Best Wishes

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

I’ve shared this before about my Cowboy name - “Cowtown” because I was born and raised in Fort Worth Texas and it is known as Cowtown - “Scout” Because I have been a registered Scout since I was 8 years old. I’m 69 with continuous registration in the Longhorn Council and last year I got my 60 year veterans card.
 

Was a youth member in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts (only made it to Life Rank). Adult leader in Boy Scouts and Venture Scouts (where I am still registered). God and Country Award as youth, Vigil Honor Member Order of the Arrow, Assistant Scoutmaster, Scoutmaster, District Committee, Wood Badge (chomping beaver), District Award of Merit, Silver Beaver, NESA Scoutmaster Award of Merit,  Assistant Venture Leader. OK I will stop there. During my time in Scouts I have seen many changes over the years. It is still a worthwhile organization for the youth of this Nation!