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? on ATF's new rule defining who needs an FFL license


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Appears Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Utah have just filed suit against the Biden Administration that this policy change violates the second Amendment. 

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On 4/30/2024 at 5:08 PM, Matthew Duncan said:


Add how does one trace a firearm used by a criminal back to the Seller?

If it was originally sold on a 4473, which all guns are for the first time.  The next sale may be private and if used in a crime, will be traced to the original buyer who sold it.   This is a push to make sure every transaction is recorded on a 4473 so it can be scanned and a database built of who owns what.  

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1 minute ago, Still hand Bill said:

If it was originally sold on a 4473, which all guns are for the first time.  The next sale may be private and if used in a crime, will be traced to the original buyer who sold it.   This is a push to make sure every transaction is recorded on a 4473 so it can be scanned and a database built of who owns what.  

Which is specifically proscribed by law.

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Just now, Rip Snorter said:

Which is specifically proscribed by law.

I believe you mean prohibited and yes it is, but I am 100% sure it’s being done.  There are so many records that they have to digitize them and once digital I am sure there is a database of who owns what.  

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Virtually any gun bought before GCA68 or earlier didn't have to be transferred through an FFL. In addition, the price paid on collector's items back then, and what those guns would be worth today would be "at a profit", even if the seller is only disposing of a longtime collection...maybe to pay for food, housing or medicine!  Does that mean somebody in that position has to obtain a dealer's license, and how can he/she if the zoning where they reside prohibits an FFL licensee? Catch 22 in spades, diamonds and CLUBS! :wacko:

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On 4/30/2024 at 5:15 PM, Rip Snorter said:

Through a data base they have "somehow" acquired which they are not supposed to have?

 

The ATF has met the "letter of the law" by having a database without names, but all additional information (primarily the address), for each gun that is sold and/or repaired by an FFL holder. Not too hard to find out which guns "Joe Blow" may own (or have access to) by typing his address into the database!!!!! Since most states require you to have your current physical address on your driver's license to buy a gun (or face a felony unless your name is Hunter) it is pretty comprehensive.

 

 

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Just now, Itchy Trigger said:

 

The ATF has met the "letter of the law" by having a database without names, but all additional information (primarily the address), for each gun that is sold and/or repaired by an FFL holder. Not too hard to find out which guns "Joe Blow" may own (or have access to) by typing his address into the database!!!!! Since most states require you to have your current physical address on your driver's license to buy a gun (or face a felony unless your name is Hunter) it is pretty comprehensive.

 

 

Mebbe so, mebbe not.  Just one man's opinion.

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Place all your firearms in a trust and name trustees. This bypasses the whole system. No probate, no transfer. Anyone ,sited as a trustee has access and can move firearms within the limits of the trust. YMMV.

 

Fox

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On 5/1/2024 at 5:32 PM, Still hand Bill said:

If it was originally sold on a 4473, which all guns are for the first time.  The next sale may be private and if used in a crime, will be traced to the original buyer who sold it.   This is a push to make sure every transaction is recorded on a 4473 so it can be scanned and a database built of who owns what.  

i believe this is unconstitutional , hope this gets squelched - but we are going to have to deal with it on the state level here as well , the Ds are passing a bunch of new laws aimed at honest gunowners ....................pretty soon only criminals will have guns , wonder how thats gonna woork out for them ?  

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On 5/2/2024 at 7:27 AM, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Then, you have BP guns where the 4473 isn't even used.

In Illinois 4473 has to be used for BP guns, may be other states as well.

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On 4/30/2024 at 5:08 PM, Matthew Duncan said:


Add how does one trace a firearm used by a criminal back to the Seller?

My Mom bought a pistol, didn't like shooting it, traded it back to dealer 3 days later. Fast forward 11 years and the ATF showed up at the door after the gun was used in a shooting in East St. Louis.

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Then the dealer did not out the gun back on the book after the trade. Should have been recorded as an acquisition. If he did. It put it back in the book then it is traceable to you. He has a record that he sold it to you. After you traded it in it can be free game. He takes it on trade, doesn’t record it and sells it elsewhere. Not saying that is what happened, just a possibility.

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6 hours ago, SHOOTIN FOX said:

Then the dealer did not out the gun back on the book after the trade. Should have been recorded as an acquisition. If he did. It put it back in the book then it is traceable to you. He has a record that he sold it to you. After you traded it in it can be free game. He takes it on trade, doesn’t record it and sells it elsewhere. Not saying that is what happened, just a possibility.

That's exactly what he did, but mom still had the ticket showing where she traded it back to him.

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On 4/30/2024 at 10:43 AM, Eyesa Horg said:

Amazing how they just bypass congress these days and think it will solve crime. Criminals couldn't care any less,it just makes their lives easier.:angry::FlagAm:

 

It's not about solving crime at all, it's about control.

 

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Posted (edited)

Because of uncertainties about this "rule", the Weapons Collectors Society of Montana just cancelled an upcoming show.  Can someone explain the effective difference between actual laws (passed by legislators) and bureaucratic rules?  I guess it means we are now ruled.

Edited by Rip Snorter
Clarity
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On 4/30/2024 at 6:46 PM, Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L said:

They are not making a new rule, they are modifying an existing rule of the definition of who is a dealer. Read the 40 or more pages defining this and then you will be really confused.

My understanding is this is coming from some wording that was changed in the “safer communities” act that was just passed . With the help of republicans. The wording change has left the ATF with the feeling they can now reinterpret the meaning. Just another example of give them an inch and they will take a mile . They want no more private sales and everything registered. And we all know why they want that . Another fine example of the uniparty 

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On 5/1/2024 at 5:18 PM, Concho Billy said:

Appears Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Utah have just filed suit against the Biden Administration that this policy change violates the second Amendment. 

Gov Abbot also stated that Texas laws with be enforced, not Federal and any Federal agent found in Texas trying to enforce their unconstitutional laws would be dealt with.

 

Time will tell I guess.

 

TM

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