Quiet Burp Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 I have Ruger NMV ..357's that I shoot .38 125gr pills out of them with a chronographed average 800fps. Very slowly aimed target firing they always print very low. Somewhere in my cognitive memory I think that I have read somewhere that 158gr pills will print higher, is this correct or am I mistaken? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 that is correct, in pistol anyway. And will increase recoil. Another option is to file the front sight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sobrante Kid Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 Yes. The bullet is going slower, that gives the barrel more time to rise before the bullet exits the barrel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 use kentucky windage/elevation to determine where you need to aim to get your POI , or adjust your front sight [not what i recommend] to get your POI , its all about if your going to settle on a certain combination and stay with it , if you are one of those that are always tinkering dont alter your revolver - might want to see wjhat its doing in your rifle then determine where you want to compromise , ive always tried to maximize somewhere that both worked well then made my adjust,ments then stayed with the formula i felt i could live with , once set up , my railroader stays the same 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 The shorter the barrel the less time it will have to rise. In one of the rifles I have a 205g bullet moving at 2500 fps will be 18" high at 100 yds, compared to a 147g bullet moving at 2900 fps. So yes, how much difference depends on barrel length, velocity etc. kR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 The heavier bullet prints higher because the recoil. The gun is pointing higher when the bullet leaves the barrel. All other factors being the same, that won't happen if the gun is fired from a Ransom gun vice. Bottom line for playing this game is to develop the load you want using a rest. When you are happy with that load, THEN adjust you sights to hit point of aim when shooting Offhand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 What is the point of impact when shooting at match speed? Most of us tend to shoot higher when shooting fast because we don't take the time to refine the sight picture to perfection. Before making any changes, see where the bullet hits on the target when you are trying to win. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 FYI, it is common for the front sight to be a little tall on the fix-sighted pistols. Then you can easily file the sight down a little to raise point of aim properly. Each gun will shoot slightly differently, so the makers plan for that and allow the user to easily adjust. Much easier to file off than add to. That is where people differ from pistols. We can gain much easier than we can lose. 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolina Gunslinger Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 9 hours ago, Marauder SASS #13056 said: FYI, it is common for the front sight to be a little tall on the fix-sighted pistols. Then you can easily file the sight down a little to raise point of aim properly. Each gun will shoot slightly differently, so the makers plan for that and allow the user to easily adjust. Much easier to file off than add to. That is where people differ from pistols. We can gain much easier than we can lose. Great advice. There was a great explanation by Tupelo Flash on one of his shows about this process. I got some really great advice from a guy once about bullet weights and sight heights. He liked a heavier bullet to roll the gun in his hand a bit to facilitate cocking the next shot in Gun fumbler. He also had some great points about heavier bullets having better accuracy than lighter bullets. My 160's tend to keyhole at about thirty yards. I suppose I could either push them harder or just use a bullet with more bearing surface. He also liked a little bit more of the front sight showing for his sight picture as opposed to flush with the top of the receiver. It all made sense as he was fairly proficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 Carolina, of course with what we are doing any good bullet should be accurate enough. But I would wonder about a bullet that keyholes at a rather short range. I would check the bullet diameter to be sure it was proper - .357 or better, .358. The 160 should be long enough for good contact but, so . . . It may be that the bullet is too hard so it isn't fitting in the barrel as much as is needed for good accuracy. Some do like a little more "roll" but most find the 125 grain loaded a little warmer to work well for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Burp Posted April 8 Author Share Posted April 8 Thanks all I appreciate the replies, I do tend to hit the steel pretty good in the 'heat of battle' of a match. Surprised though how low they print on paper with very aimed shots. Just ordered some 158gr pills to see if it makes a difference, loath to alter my front sights just yet as with the powder supply shortage down here, I have a lot of powder, but not a lot of ONE powder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) 10 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said: What is the point of impact when shooting at match speed? Most of us tend to shoot higher when shooting fast because we don't take the time to refine the sight picture to perfection. Before making any changes, see where the bullet hits on the target when you are trying to win. ill admit im guilty - ive shot high for years so i start out aiming low to compensate and stay on target btw - its also not all that significant at our distances , save perhaps the rifle if you have issues there , but we are not shooting at 100 yds , i seldom give my sights all that much attention on the clock , yes it costs me sometimes nbut after you aquire the target they are of a size and distrance not to need a lot of science Edited April 8 by watab kid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Burp Posted April 8 Author Share Posted April 8 1 hour ago, watab kid said: ill admit im guilty - ive shot high for years so i start out aiming low to compensate and stay on target btw - its also not all that significant at our distances , save perhaps the rifle if you have issues there , but we are not shooting at 100 yds , i seldom give my sights all that much attention on the clock , yes it costs me sometimes nbut after you aquire the target they are of a size and distrance not to need a lot of science I watch a lot of SASS on Youtube, our (down here) pistol targets are always 7-10 yards and rifle targets 13+ yards. It seems like a lot of U.S clubs shoot a lot closer than that? (Or its the camera angle that makes the targets look closer????). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 10 minutes ago, Quiet Burp said: I watch a lot of SASS on Youtube, our (down here) pistol targets are always 7-10 yards and rifle targets 13+ yards. It seems like a lot of U.S clubs shoot a lot closer than that? (Or its the camera angle that makes the targets look closer????). i think the camera - those distances are about what we all see and i shot in three states every year a little , but they are still closer and bigger than anything i used to shoot in three gun , im too old to keep up in that these days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Burp Posted April 8 Author Share Posted April 8 These look close to me (could be that the floor is higher than the outside ground?) and our SG targets are always further than our pistol targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 23 minutes ago, Quiet Burp said: I watch a lot of SASS on Youtube, our (down here) pistol targets are always 7-10 yards and rifle targets 13+ yards. It seems like a lot of U.S clubs shoot a lot closer than that? (Or its the camera angle that makes the targets look closer????). Well Burp it could be camera angle when some of the targets are so big! But really, yes, a lot of clubs are closer. Most of the clubs around here would have that as a maximum distance but most stages are closer than that. And then a few clubs are much closer! So it just depends on what match and where that you are watching. There are some clubs that will move them in for the big matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Burp Posted April 8 Author Share Posted April 8 Abilene I wish we shot closer, I reckon the older age group we're in the closer the targets should be 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 i disagree , im thinking as we age we need the challenge to stay on top of the game , besides when i was younger i thought farther till i noticed the age brackets we generally see , the targets are fine , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolina Gunslinger Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 On 4/7/2024 at 7:58 PM, Marauder SASS #13056 said: Carolina, of course with what we are doing any good bullet should be accurate enough. But I would wonder about a bullet that keyholes at a rather short range. I would check the bullet diameter to be sure it was proper - .357 or better, .358. The 160 should be long enough for good contact but, so . . . It may be that the bullet is too hard so it isn't fitting in the barrel as much as is needed for good accuracy. Some do like a little more "roll" but most find the 125 grain loaded a little warmer to work well for that. It's a .452 160. I should've stated that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 3 hours ago, Carolina Gunslinger said: It's a .452 160. I should've stated that. All things being equal a cast bullet should be .002 bigger than the bore. Have a way over bored rossi 92 44 mag made in 1993-4 that has a .434-.435 inch bore depending on how one measures the slug. It key holed at 25 yards. Switched to softer Desparado Bullets from cowboybullets.com 240 grain .430 diameter the rifle now shoots round holes at 100 yards and a 2.5-3 inch group from a 20 inch carbine iron sights and over 65 yo eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolina Gunslinger Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 On 4/9/2024 at 6:25 PM, Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 said: All things being equal a cast bullet should be .002 bigger than the bore. Have a way over bored rossi 92 44 mag made in 1993-4 that has a .434-.435 inch bore depending on how one measures the slug. It key holed at 25 yards. Switched to softer Desparado Bullets from cowboybullets.com 240 grain .430 diameter the rifle now shoots round holes at 100 yards and a 2.5-3 inch group from a 20 inch carbine iron sights and over 65 yo eyes. Noted. I'm quoting what the box says. I have neither measured bullet nor bore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tell Sackett SASS 18436 Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 158gr don’t print !! They write in cursive! 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Payne Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 Since we're not shooting bullseye competitions, I'm glad I never filed front sites on my pistols to point of aim. I think it's easier to find them quickly & get used to the adjustment of a certain amount of the front sight when the beeper goes off. However, I want my rifle right "on the money". Again, my two cents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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