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H+R 1871 Buffalo Classic


Kelvin
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is the H+R Buffalo Classic in 45-70 or 38-55 acceptable for long distance side match.

It is  a Take of of Frank Wesson 1850 Break action .

Doc Nowlin

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The Buffalo classic is a great gun for sass long range side matches. I have won 20 state matches and regionals with mine. I use a 1901 krag carbine sight. Requires a minimum of modification to mount. I shoot both 38-55 and 45-70. The 38-55 is slightly faster for me. Hope to win the Va state match this weekend with mine. That would be # 11. Krag sights can be found on EBay or gun broker. Price is going up paid from 60 to 150 dollars for the 7 that I have. the Wesson and Harrington sight fits with no modification Buffalo arms may have the wesson and Harrington sight. 
image.jpeg.7e354347874d8330c73c5f0612278fbf.jpeg
 

 

image.thumb.jpeg.e696e28d0efd0b17eeff301ca332b1d2.jpeg

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Just curious, why is the factory barrel mounted peep not allowed. Just wondering since one back a couple inches is and beats the heck out of your thumb!

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49 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Just curious, why is the factory barrel mounted peep not allowed. Just wondering since one back a couple inches is and beats the heck out of your thumb!

 

Because the only "peep" sights listed as allowed are:

Quote

Rear sights must either be open iron sights mounted on the barrel or original style tang or stock wrist mounted peep sights. Long range rear barrel mounted sights of the flip-up ladder type may use a peephole drilled through the sliding sight leaf. An example of this is the various ladder type sights used on the Springfield trapdoors.

SHB p.30

 

If examples of "period" sights of the type in question can be documented, an FMC can be submitted to consider their use.

 

 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
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Barrel mounted sight is ok, not reciever mounted. 
you can use the ladder sight & drill a small hole in it. 
 

the H&R Buffalo classic is a good gun, but no way to mount a tang sight on it as it does not have a tang. 

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Howdy Long Rangers,

 

I have to admit that I hate those H&R guns with good reason. They are very reasonably priced compared to the other rifles that we use for long range matches. That's a good thing. They routinely out-shoot our fancy high-priced Sharps and Pedersoli rifles. That's bad. Worse, it's embarrassing. 

 

To continue carping about the H&R guns, my other beef with them is the stocks (I have this complaint with most guns). The wood is too bulbous and lacks the grace of vintage single shots. This could be fixed with some rasp, sandpaper and finish work for a better look.

 

Finally, they are a real bargain and I'd have one if I didn't already have a Shiloh Sharps (might get one anyway).

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8 minutes ago, Reverend P. Babcock Chase said:

Howdy Long Rangers,

 

I have to admit that I hate those H&R guns with good reason. They are very reasonably priced compared to the other rifles that we use for long range matches. That's a good thing. They routinely out-shoot our fancy high-priced Sharps and Pedersoli rifles. That's bad. Worse, it's embarrassing. 

 

To continue carping about the H&R guns, my other beef with them is the stocks (I have this complaint with most guns). The wood is too bulbous and lacks the grace of vintage single shots. This could be fixed with some rasp, sandpaper and finish work for a better look.

 

Finally, they are a real bargain and I'd have one if I didn't already have a Shiloh Sharps (might get one anyway).

I'll trade ya!:lol::D I'll even throw in a rasp and some new brass.

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10 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Barrel mounted sight is ok, not reciever mounted. 
you can use the ladder sight & drill a small hole in it. 

 

This barrel-mounted peep sight is NOT LEGAL:

 

See the source image

 

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9 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

This barrel-mounted peep sight is NOT LEGAL:

 

See the source image

 

Yup, that's what mine has. The flip up ladder you mentioned and others showed above seems the way to go. When I bought the rifle, there was a Lyman peep chiseled into the wrist but it was brutal on my thumb with full loads and 405 gr. pills! 

Thank you for the info.

EH 

Edited by Eyesa Horg
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My first LR rifle was a Buffalo classic. First match I shot itbin was Tx State. 100 & 200 were pretty easy. As I was going to 300 I mentioned to the experienced LR shooters there running the match that I did not have “$400” sights on my rifle. They kind of laughed and assured me they did not have $400 sights either! 
(closer to $6-700!) 

 

The Buffalo classic with a ladder sight is good to about 300. After that the adjustments are just a tad to crude to be really accurate. But they are good rifles. I did win the 125 yd Quigley bucket match (3 shots on 16” target timed)

 

im sure somebody will post they can shoot further then 300 with their BC, and they probably can. but there is just no way the ladder is as good and repeatable as a vernier sight. 

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1 hour ago, Hoss said:

Barrel mounted sight is ok, not reciever mounted. 
you can use the ladder sight & drill a small hole in it. 
 

the H&R Buffalo classic is a good gun, but no way to mount a tang sight on it as it does not have a tang. 

 

Wesson & Harrington evolved into Harrington & Richardson due to retirements and selling to other relatives.  Later Marlin bought out H&R, then Remington bought Marlin, then Ruger bought Marlin, and the saga continues.     The bottom line, there are no more H&R Buffalo Classics or Target Classics being made.  Originally, they only made the buffalo Classic which was a 45-70 and a 38-55 with a shorter barrel which was called a Target Classic.

 

I have two with Tang Sights, one a Marbles & the other a Vernier.  Yes, I had to drill and tap some metal as-well-as the wrist.

 

The Peep Sight is not legal, but you can remove the Peep Sight from the base and exchange it for an Open Leaf Sight and that is legal.

 

I have a few of each.  I just sold two 45-70s as we call them Thumpers.  Being in my middle 70s I much prefer the softer shooting models.

 

Shoot straight and keep the fun flowing.

Edited by Frontier Lone Rider
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18 hours ago, Kelvin said:

is the H+R Buffalo Classic in 45-70 or 38-55 acceptable for long distance side match.

It is  a Take of of Frank Wesson 1850 Break action .

Doc Nowlin

Also, if you're shooting the Buffalo Single Shot match, SHB Page 30 "Spring-loaded ejectors are also prohibited, except for Springfield Trapdoor Rifles."

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1 hour ago, Flying W Ramrod said:

Also, if you're shooting the Buffalo Single Shot match, SHB Page 30 "Spring-loaded ejectors are also prohibited, except for Springfield Trapdoor Rifles."

 

I believe that is true in the black powder Buffalo Matches.

 

Some Buffalo Classics come with ejectors, some don't.  If that is a problem just remove the springs.

 

I allow both in our Long-Range competitions at High Noon.  However, I created two categories, so the non-ejectors do not shoot against those with ejectors.  That way no one has to try and modify their firearm.

 

Even though the Trap door Models have ejectors, we categorize them as non-ejectors because of all of the manipulations in loading.

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I really like the H & R.  Mine is a 38-55 and shoots like a laser.  My bestest rifle for Plainsman side matches.  I equipped mine with a "Smith Enterprises" ladder sight which also included the mounting block.  Superb instrument.

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14 hours ago, Frontier Lone Rider said:

 

Wesson & Harrington evolved into Harrington & Richardson due to retirements and selling to other relatives.  Later Marlin bought out H&R, then Remington bought Marlin, then Ruger bought Marlin, and the saga continues.     The bottom line, there are no more H&R Buffalo Classics or Target Classics being made.  Originally, they only made the buffalo Classic which was a 45-70 and a 38-55 with a shorter barrel which was called a Target Classic.

 

I have two with Tang Sights, one a Marbles & the other a Vernier.  Yes, I had to drill and tap some metal as-well-as the wrist.

 

The Peep Sight is not legal, but you can remove the Peep Sight from the base and exchange it for an Open Leaf Sight and that is legal.

 

I have a few of each.  I just sold two 45-70s as we call them Thumpers.  Being in my middle 70s I much prefer the softer shooting models.

 

Shoot straight and keep the fun flowing.

Removing the peep from a receiver mounted sight and replacing it with an open sight still on the receiver is not legal.

Page 34. SHB  Receiver or bolt mounted sights are not legal.

I had to stop using my H&R at the National Championship with an open sight mounted on the receiver because it was illegal.

kR

Edited by Kid Rich
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18 hours ago, Hoss said:

My first LR rifle was a Buffalo classic. First match I shot itbin was Tx State. 100 & 200 were pretty easy. As I was going to 300 I mentioned to the experienced LR shooters there running the match that I did not have “$400” sights on my rifle. They kind of laughed and assured me they did not have $400 sights either! 
(closer to $6-700!) 

 

The Buffalo classic with a ladder sight is good to about 300. After that the adjustments are just a tad to crude to be really accurate. But they are good rifles. I did win the 125 yd Quigley bucket match (3 shots on 16” target timed)

 

im sure somebody will post they can shoot further then 300 with their BC, and they probably can. but there is just no way the ladder is as good and repeatable as a vernier sight. 

I shot mine, and won, at 800yds with a Buffington rear sight. 45-70 using a 560 grain chunk of lead on the end. Full BP, newspaper pad over the primer pocket, drop tube loaded powder, over powder polywad, pill. Also shot, and came in second, at 1000yds. Just use the sight required for the job and you're good to go.

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3 hours ago, Kid Rich said:

Removing the peep from a receiver mounted sight and replacing it with an open sight still on the receiver is not legal.

Page 34. SHB  Receiver or bolt mounted sights are not legal.

I had to stop using my H&R at the National Championship with an open sight mounted on the receiver because it was illegal.

kR

Sights on the h&r break open rifles are mounted on the barrel. I have also mounted long range sights on the upper wrist using threaded inserts. How did you manage to mount sights on the receiver?

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3 minutes ago, Kid Rich said:

All of the part of the barrel that the cartridge fits in is the receiver. Sounds picky to me but that's the way it was explained to me.

kR

 

It's still part of the barrel...NOT the receiver.

The length of the CHAMBER is included when measuring barrel length on a break-open long gun.

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3 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

It's still part of the barrel...NOT the receiver.

The length of the CHAMBER is included when measuring barrel length on a break-open long gun.

Then what is the receiver on an H&R? Probably someone ought to get the word out to the folks that run these matches, and I don't mean monthlies.

kR

 

Edited by Kid Rich
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3 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

It's still part of the barrel...NOT the receiver.

The length of the CHAMBER is included when measuring barrel length on a break-open long gun.

That's right...obviously;)

 

ATF will measure your barrel with the action closed and a rod stuck down the barrel...so...

 

Phantom

Just now, Kid Rich said:

Then what is the receiver on an H&R? Probably someone ought to get the word out to the folks that run these matches, and I don't mean monthlies.

kR

That would be the part that houses the sear.

 

Phantom

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12 hours ago, Big Gus, SASS# 66666 said:

 

 

12 hours ago, Big Gus, SASS# 66666 said:

The part housing the trigger and hammer is the receiver on a H&R. Just ask the atf that is where the serial number is. I would have thrown the BS flag on the claim that the barrel is the receiver. 

You will notice from my post that I did not necessarily agree with that but I was not the MD.

kR

Edited by Kid Rich
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16 hours ago, Kid Rich said:

All of the part of the barrel that the cartridge fits in is the receiver. Sounds picky to me but that's the way it was explained to me.

kR

THIS is not correct. The barrel chamber is still the barrel...period.

 

Whoever explained it to you is from a planet other than Earth.

 

Phantom

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And where do you put your thumb? Mine wants to be right where that sight is.

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On 8/31/2022 at 10:50 AM, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Mounting a sight to wood is...not ideal.

 

Phantom

Very true. Limited options. Had the skill to put in inserts for a “relatively” firm mount. Worried about wood movement with changes in humidity and temperature. Unless there was a sudden change in environment, a couple of sighting shots should be enough. As I said, a buddy could shoot it. 
 

Chancy

Edited by Chancy Shot, SASS #67163
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With the barrel mounted ladder sight, what is the recommended front insert. I currently have what it came with, a post with a small donut on top. I haven't had any issue with factory peep.

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On 8/30/2022 at 5:43 PM, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

It's still part of the barrel...NOT the receiver.

The length of the CHAMBER is included when measuring barrel length on a break-open long gun.

 

So where does the barrel end and the receiver start?  

 

The Buffalo classic comes with a peep sight, which is supposedly mounted on the receiver.  Barrel sights can be mounted in front of that location, but how far forward?

 

If the barrel on a break open rifle includes the entire length from end to end, then how does one know where exactly is the receiver for the purpose of mounting a sight?

 

Just looking for some clarification in determining whether a sight is legal.

Edited by Frontier Lone Rider
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To me that peep is mounted on the barrel, albeit over the chamber. If you remove the barrel, the chamber is part of the barrel. The chamber is always part of the rifle barrel in my opine.

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1 hour ago, Frontier Lone Rider said:

 

So where does the barrel end and the receiver start?  

 

The Buffalo classic comes with a peep sight, which is supposedly mounted on the receiver.  Barrel sights can be mounted in front of that location, but how far forward?

 

If the barrel on a break open rifle includes the entire length from end to end, then how does one know where exactly is the receiver for the purpose of mounting a sight?

 

Just looking for some clarification in determining whether a sight is legal.

 

Quote

2.The term “receiver” means the part of a rifle, shotgun, or projectile weapon other than a handgun, or variants thereof, that provides housing or a structure for the primary component designed to block or seal the breech prior to initiation of the firing sequence ( i.e., bolt, breechblock, or equivalent), even if pins or other attachments are required to connect such component to the housing or structure.

Quote

vi.Break action, lever action, or pump action rifles and shotguns: The receiver is the part of the rifle or shotgun that provides housing for the bolt, breechblock, or equivalent.

original.png

 

SOURCE

 

 

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Howdy Cowboys,

 

Having already stated my feelings about the H&R and lamenting the fact that they (usually) shoot right along with our expensive Sharps, etc., This whole "what is a receiver" business maybe misses the point. All other rifles we shoot long range, whether lever or single shot, are prohibited from having a receiver mounted sight.

 

The H&R peep sight is mounted on the rear of the barrel and over the receiver. This is the same position relative to the shooters eye as peep sight mounted on a lever rifle receiver. I guess the powers that made the rules felt that, in addition to not being period typical, it provided a perceived advantage vs. mid sight. I suppose the regulators felt that tang mounted peep sights are acceptable as they are more period typical. 

 

Them's my thoughts. 

Rev. Chase

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