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H+R 1871 Buffalo Classic


Kelvin

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9 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

original.png

 

SOURCE

 

 

 

Referencing the above illustration for Break Action Firearms, the sight mounted on the rear of the barrel is still mounted on the barrel as the receiver is the part that the barrel is connected to, but not a part of.

 

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I just happen to run the Long Range at a three-day match and want to get this sight business correct.  I do not want to question a shooter concerning their sight placement If I am still unsure of it's being proper.

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10 hours ago, Reverend P. Babcock Chase said:

I guess the powers that made the rules felt that, in addition to not being period typical, it provided a perceived advantage vs. mid sight.

Who are these "powers that made the rules" of which you speak?  I've shot in SASS long range matches since 1986 and have never heard any of the rule makers try to redefine rifle parts such as described in this thread.  

pg 29, SHB:  clearly states, "- Rear sights must either be open iron sights mounted on the barrel or original style tang or stock wrist mounted peep sights. Long range rear barrel mounted sights of the flip-up ladder type may use a peephole drilled through the sliding sight leaf. An example of this is the various ladder type sights used on the Springfield trapdoors."  It is specifically worded to allow either open iron sights mounted on the barrel OR original style tang or stock wrist mounted peep sights.  No allowance for a barrel mounted peep sight, with the exception of the ladder style.  I simply don't understand why some folks feel entitled to read more than what's written or ignore what is written in the SHB.

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2 hours ago, Griff said:

Who are these "powers that made the rules" of which you speak?  I've shot in SASS long range matches since 1986 and have never heard any of the rule makers try to redefine rifle parts such as described in this thread.  

pg 29, SHB:  clearly states, "- Rear sights must either be open iron sights mounted on the barrel or original style tang or stock wrist mounted peep sights. Long range rear barrel mounted sights of the flip-up ladder type may use a peephole drilled through the sliding sight leaf. An example of this is the various ladder type sights used on the Springfield trapdoors."  It is specifically worded to allow either open iron sights mounted on the barrel OR original style tang or stock wrist mounted peep sights.  No allowance for a barrel mounted peep sight, with the exception of the ladder style.  I simply don't understand why some folks feel entitled to read more than what's written or ignore what is written in the SHB.

 

So, are you saying that one can remove the peep sight leaving the base and insert an open leaf sight blade on that base and it would be acceptable?

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12 hours ago, Frontier Lone Rider said:

So, are you saying that one can remove the peep sight leaving the base and insert an open leaf sight blade on that base and it would be acceptable?

I wouldn't presume to be an authority on that particular sight, I'd suggest asking PWB to be certain.  If someone were to ask me, that's what I'd do if I had sufficient time.  But, if someone showed up at a side match with that sight converted to a open sight, AND I were in charge, I'd allow it.

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8 hours ago, Griff said:

I wouldn't presume to be an authority on that particular sight, I'd suggest asking PWB to be certain.  If someone were to ask me, that's what I'd do if I had sufficient time.  But, if someone showed up at a side match with that sight converted to a open sight, AND I were in charge, I'd allow it.

 

Since Side Matches are not a part of the SASS Sanctioned Match, I am leaning in that direction.  There appears to be some confusion over exactly what is defined as the barrel or the receiver on Top Break Long Arm Rifles.  

 

I believe the Willams Sight that comes on the Buffalo Classic or Target Classic in actually mounted on the barrel.  However, Peep Sights are not allowed in that position.  They are allowed on the Wrist (Tang) or modified Ladder Sight with a hole drilled in the slide.  It is a challenge to mount a Vernier Sight or Marbles Sight on the Wrist.  Basically, as there is no metal tang, and the wood is so thin to the bolt hole holding the stock to the receiver.

 

Each host club may interpret this differently.  That is their prerogative based on their space and resource.  Clubs adapt Side Matches to their individual space and range rules.  I just always ask that their local or club rules be published so a competitor is aware prior to competing.

 

For instance, at Guns of August, all reloads in the Single Shot competition must come from the shooters body.  That is the only place I have encountered that rule.  Most clubs allow the reloads to be placed on a table.  Clubs set-up their matches based on the space available and the volunteers who will be running the competition.

 

Luckily this has not been an issue for very few shooters.  The 1874 or 1885 both have metal tangs just for our use.

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1 hour ago, Frontier Lone Rider said:

 

Since Side Matches are not a part of the SASS Sanctioned Match, I am leaning in that direction.  There appears to be some confusion over exactly what is defined as the barrel or the receiver on Top Break Long Arm Rifles.  

 

What "confusion"??

I posted definitions (with illustrations) from the ATF website.
 

 

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7 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

What "confusion"??

I posted definitions (with illustrations) from the ATF website.
 

 

Well I’m confused. According to the illustration you posted of receiver on break action long gun, a sight mounted on barrel above chamber would be legal. 
Is it a Williams or skinner style peep sight not legal, but a ladder or open buckhorn be legal? 

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17 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Well I’m confused. According to the illustration you posted of receiver on break action long gun, a sight mounted on barrel above chamber would be legal. 
Is it a Williams or skinner style peep sight not legal, but a ladder or open buckhorn be legal? 

 

There are only two options.

 

SHB pg.30
- Rear sights must either be open iron sights mounted on the barrel or original
style tang or stock wrist mounted peep sights.

 


 

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54 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Well I’m confused. According to the illustration you posted of receiver on break action long gun, a sight mounted on barrel above chamber would be legal. 
Is it a Williams or skinner style peep sight not legal, but a ladder or open buckhorn be legal? 


Going back to page one (where this was first posted) 

 

The ONLY "peep" sights specifically listed as LEGAL are:

 

Quote

 

- Rear sights must either be open iron sights mounted on the barrel or original style tang or stock wrist mounted peep sights. Long range rear barrel mounted sights of the flip-up ladder type may use a peephole drilled through the sliding sight leaf. An example of this is the various ladder type sights used on the Springfield trapdoors.

- Bolt or receiver mounted sights are not allowed.

SHB p.30

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

On the williams peep sight shown. You can remove the peep and replace it with a blade.

 

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1184187030?pid=187030

Williams Rear Sight Blade U Notch Aluminum Black

 

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1184132349?pid=950591

Williams Rear Sight Blade Square Notch Aluminum Black

 

Which would convert the "barrel-mounted peep sight" to an "open iron sight mounted on the barrel".

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