Police patrol car cages

[sassnetguy50]

Seeking the experience of the law enforcement officers here.

 

This video of a detainee on meth shooting a deputy with his own AR pistol made me wonder.  The local department used Crown Victoria patrol cars with tight fitting cages.  A child couldn’t have reached past it.  The video shows an Explorer patrol vehicle.  Do all Explorers have large gaps in their cage that fit an arm and an AR pistol?  

 

https://ktul.com/news/local/grady-co-sheriffs-office-making-changes-after-a-woman-shot-a-deputy-with-his-ar-15-gary-boggess-slipped-out-of-handcuffs-shot-officer-and-civilian-with-his-gun-rachel-zion-clay

[sassnetguy50]

A second thought:  did your department leave the comfortable factory seats?  The local department uses a hard plastic seat so the car can be hosed and sanitized after a detainee regurgitates or soils the car.  

[Utah Bob #35998]

That was a nightmare!

Women are famous for being able to wiggle their hands back in front if cuffed behind and even slip a hand out. They need to be snugly cuffed and belted in. We had very snug fitting cages and concealed long gun release switches. But we also didn’t have as much computer equipment filling up the front as they do now.

Meth users are particularly bad due to their high pain tolerance. They have been known to dislocate a thumb getting out of cuffs.

[Pat Riot]

Sounds like knock out gas is in order. 

[John E. Law]

I have NEVER seen a cage with openings that large. The back seat of our vehicles are blocked completely from the front and rear. The rear has a tighter mesh cage and the front is the same cage and plexi covering the drivers side. 

 

JEL 

[LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L]

Looks like someone decided to save some money and put a cage from a car in that SUV, resulting in an extremely poor fit.  That and the gun lock switch being stupidly marked "gun" are contributing factors in a comedy of errors that could have cost someone their lives.  

[ORNERY OAF]

30 years LE never seen a cage with those huge openings, wow..I hope that was a new car that someone botched and not standard.....

[Utah Bob #35998]

1 hour ago, LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L said:

Looks like someone decided to save some money and put a cage from a car in that SUV, resulting in an extremely poor fit.  That and the gun lock switch being stupidly marked "gun" are contributing factors in a comedy of errors that could have cost someone their lives.  

That’s what I was thinking. I’d like to see the front part.

[Sarge]

Unfortunately, many times the equipment is selected by non law enforcement personnel.  Even worse, cages, lights, and other equipment is re-used over and over again, even it wasn't manufactured for that particular make/model vehicle.

[Badlands Bob #61228]

I suspect that the cage was adapted from a previous vehicle which seems to have left large holes.  

[Muggle]

The video is all over the place, its a horror. The cage must have some issues.

[Utah Bob #35998]

14 hours ago, Sarge said:

Unfortunately, many times the equipment is selected by non law enforcement personnel.  Even worse, cages, lights, and other equipment is re-used over and over again, even it wasn't manufactured for that particular make/model vehicle.

Bean counters in police administration used to drive me crazy! 

[John E. Law]

19 hours ago, LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L said:

Looks like someone decided to save some money and put a cage from a car in that SUV, resulting in an extremely poor fit.  That and the gun lock switch being stupidly marked "gun" are contributing factors in a comedy of errors that could have cost someone their lives.  

Our locks are nondescript and the button has to be pushed multiple times in an order like an SOS code. Ie push, push, pause, push, pause, push. It took a few tries to get used to it but once you learned it it was like shooting a stage subconsciously.

 

Our old ones were just a push and it unlocked. 

 

But all of these "gun locks" themselves are complete garbage. They're magnetic so it only takes a neo magnet to touch near the lock and they will open. Which is why I remove my guns every night. 

 

JEL

[Badlands Bob #61228]

 We had actual patrol cars and we kept the long guns in the truck.  Our department didn't reuse old cages.  The Plexiglass got pretty scratched up over the car's 5 year life span and got harder to see out of.  They also didn't reuse blue lights or radios.  A new car got all new equipment.   

[LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L]

4 hours ago, John E. Law said:

Our locks are nondescript and the button has to be pushed multiple times in an order like an SOS code. Ie push, push, pause, push, pause, push. It took a few tries to get used tk,o it but once you learned it it was like shooting a stage subconsciously.

 

Our old ones were just a push and it unlocked. 

 

But all of these "gun locks" themselves are complete garbage. They're magnetic so it only takes a neo magnet to touch near the lock and they will open. Which is why I remove my guns every night. 

 

JEL

I've had the solenoid go out on more than one, so I quit using them.  Most of ours had an manual over ride that used a handcuff key, but it was in a particularly hard place to access, and I did not want to chance it.  My patrol rifle rode in the trunk, unless I got a call about a serious situation.  I'd stop and get the rifle out and put it in the front of the car before arriving.

 

[John E. Law]

3 hours ago, LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L said:

I've had the solenoid go out on more than one, so I quit using them.  Most of ours had an manual over ride that used a handcuff key, but it was in a particularly hard place to access, and I did not want to chance it.  My patrol rifle rode in the trunk, unless I got a call about a serious situation.  I'd stop and get the rifle out and put it in the front of the car before arriving.

 

I used to do that, but we've moved to Tahoe's. Much better patrol vehicle but they do have their drawbacks. 

 

4 hours ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

 We had actual patrol cars and we kept the long guns in the truck.  Our department didn't reuse old cages.  The Plexiglass got pretty scratched up over the car's 5 year life span and got harder to see out of.  They also didn't reuse blue lights or radios.  A new car got all new equipment.   

My agency has 1200 sworn, about 450 enforcement/investigations, another 150 executive/corrections/civilian with issued, then additional about 100 miscellaneous vehicles. Getting brand new equipment with every vehicle just isn't possible. They do a great job, but if it can be reused they will. It's gotten really bad since the "supply shortage" were so delayed in getting vehicles and parts we've brought the crown vics from the car pool car barn back into service to issue new deputies coming out. I'm fortunate though, with 28 years on, 17 as a sergeant, I'm now the senior sergeant in the agency so I have a brand new unmarked tahoe with all brand new equipment. 

 

JEL

[Sawhorse Kid]

The excessive cage gap left me baffled as also, as well as being able to reach the gun.

[John E. Law]

The other thing that got me was the AR pistol? Why the brace instead of a stock? The department doesn't have to go by the NFA, they're exempt. Even if it's a personally owned gun the agency can authorize the SBR and only upon separation would it need to go back. I personally prefer issued guns. Nothing is mine to lose either by theft or court hassle,  it's all agency owned. Even our secondary/off duty firearms, the M&P shield, are issued. I preferred the M&P compact because the mags interchanged with our issued duty guns but S&W discontinued those so we went to the shield. 

 

We have the 14" Remington 700, with the Blackhawk recoil reducing carbine stock (a fantastic shotgun), and the 12.5" S&W M&P 15 with the LWRC ultra compact stock issued to us. The shorter barrels are much easier getting them in and out of the vehicles and don't effect accuracy at the ranges we shoot. We decided that since stats showed that the average SWAT long range engagement is averaged to only 63 yards with sniper rifles then the 12.5" is more than capable. I can hold a solid 3" group at 100 yards during our timed 60 round Qual. We also have our deputies shoot 15 rounds at 200 yards but not for score, just to show them the rifles are capable, where their hold at that range should be, and that they themselves can do it. We encourage red dots with co-witness fixed, but don't issue them yet. The agency at first only approved aimpoint, trijicon, and Eotech, so only about half went to the RDS due to cost,  but we have since authorized Holosun and since then almost everyone has gone with an RDS now. You have to qualify with both fixed and the RDS. Starting in October our agency is going to the RDS on our pistols. That was my personal project of getting that done and approved. It's IMO the biggest achievement of my career. I truly believe in the RDS.

 

Our Qual is tough. It's starts with 15 rounds at 100 yds prone then a mag change to a mag with 10rds, up to kneel and 5 rounds back down to prone 5 rounds, up and mag change to 10rds while running  to the 50yd line, drop down to the knee and shoot 10 rds, back up and mag change to 10rds while running to the 25, at 25 yds its 10 rounds stand then mag change to 10 and drop to the knee for 5 rounds then back up to stand 5 rounds, last mag change to 5 while running to the 15 yrd line and dump the last 5 rds. This all has to be done in 3 min 30 seconds, again it's tough. Funny thing is is our current pistol Qual is a joke. That's gonna charge with the new RDS. 

 

JEL

 

 

[Sedalia Dave]

On 8/20/2022 at 7:50 PM, John E. Law said:

I used to do that, but we've moved to Tahoe's. Much better patrol vehicle but they do have their drawbacks. 

 

 

Why not install a truck vault in the back. They make them for SUVs

[Rip Snorter]

20 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Why not install a truck vault in the back. They make them for SUVs

Been there, because when you want that shotgun, you wish you were riding with it across your lap.