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Scrub Oak Willie 53737

WTC- Pistoles holster or not

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1 hour ago, Scrub Oak Willie 53737 said:

Bill there were no penalty assed to the one's that did not holster , fair ? 

 

10 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

 

Ignorantia juris non excusat

 

Someone there knew that it was a penalty, otherwise Willie would not be here asking about why he was penalized for it.

 

And he is right, and SASS recognizes it. By not penalizing everyone that earned the penalty, everyone that did comply with the regulations was penalized. Not a knock on anyone, that is just the organization's statement of fact.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it.  OK.  If we're viewing it from the perspective of the TO, is ignorance of the rule an excuse for not penalizing? 

 

In other words, if there is a question in your mind about whether something was a violation, do you assess a penalty?  You're at a match, you're the TO, you can't get clarification from the SHB, you're out of cell range so you can't call Buck, you think it 'might' be a penalty, but you're not sure.  Next shooter.

 

That's all I have to contribute.  I understand the rule now.  Thanks all.

Edited by Captain Bill Burt

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7 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

 

Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it.  OK.  If we're viewing it from the perspective of the TO, is ignorance of the rule an excuse for not penalizing? 

 

In other words, if there is a question in your mind about whether something was a violation, do you assess a penalty?  You're at a match, you're the TO, you can't get clarification from the SHB, you're out of cell range so you can't call Buck, you think it 'might' be a penalty, but you're not sure.  Next shooter.

 

That's all I have to contribute.  I understand the rule now.  Thanks all.

 

Willie also stated that, "The call was that he must holster the pistoles if he started with them since it did not say that he could re-staged them."

 

So, it looks like that someone his posse knew - or at least at the match knew. And this gets to a greater issue, and you are correct. The knowledge of your TOs and your PMs can have a big impact on the outcome of the match. Their knowledge of and enforcement of the rules greatly impacts not only the posse they are on, but the outcomes of the other shooters as well.

 

Furthermore, as this thread is alluding to, when we do things outside of what is 'normal' or what we are accustomed to, stage instructions lack info, PMs don't read the instructions are written, or attempt to interpret something not there, this can also impact the match. Worst case scenario...What ends up happening is each posse ends up shooting a different match...

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I discussed this with RO (TO) before we started the stage , and we ALL did it right on our posse!!!

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15 hours ago, Major BS Walker Regulator said:

This should always be brought up when the instructions are read. Don't ever pass up a chance to ask questions before you shoot to avoid mistakes.

 

That's one of the things I was going to say. Don't know if it's just our club, but our shooters are never afraid to ask questions, and our T.O.'s have gotten real good at anticipating the questions and answering before they are asked. Plus, the MD and TO's discuss these types of things during the walk through.

 

Second thing was, are our rules really that hard to understand? 

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8 minutes ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

Second thing was, are our rules really that hard to understand? 

 

No

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5 hours ago, Scrub Oak Willie 53737 said:

I discussed this with RO (TO) before we started the stage , and we ALL did it right on our posse!!!

Is there no Match Director at this match?

 

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15 hours ago, Krazy Kajun said:

Following that logic, your long guns were in your hands before you staged them so should they be returned to your hands after shooting them?  Of course the answer is no but you see the logic.

 

I'm in agreement with Capt. Bill (dang that was hard to type :lol:  ), if they were  staged on the prop at the beginning of the stage and absent any specific stage instructions to reholster them, restaging them back on the prop would be ok.  When I write stages and have pistols staged I always include instructions that shooter may restage them back or holster them, shooter's choice.  If I had to move to another location after shooting the pistol I would choose to holster it as I could do that while I was moving.  It just depends on the stage instructions and scenario.

Kajun

PWB has answered. N ext shooter.

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Kareful there Kajun!!  Ol’ PaleWolf will award you a black star!!

 

Don’t poke the bear!!

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To add...

 

I was told if the revolvers were the last firearm in the stage that they could be staged on the prop?  Here, if one elected to shoot the revolvers last, then no issue.

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25 minutes ago, Lone Rider, SASS# 73063 said:

To add...

 

I was told if the revolvers were the last firearm in the stage that they could be staged on the prop?  Here, if one elected to shoot the revolvers last, then no issue.

Correct, however you still must holster your pistols to avoid penalty, just not on the clock since the last round has been fired.

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Correct.

 

When I have observed this, the shooter places the 1st revolver back on the prop, then continues to shoot the 2nd revolver and re-holsters both at the end of the string.

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16 hours ago, Noz said:

PWB has answered. N ext shooter.

Noz, if'n you'd slow yore roll just a mite you'd see that my post was immediately after PWB's definitive ruling and both were posted at the same time.  Don't be so quick to try and jump on folks and say "Next shooter!"  We all know what PWB says about the rules is gospel.  Geez!

 

 

6 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

Kareful there Kajun!!  Ol’ PaleWolf will award you a black star!!

 

Don’t poke the bear!!

Backwater, see my post to Noz above.  I'll take all the stars I can get, don't many come my way! :lol:

 

Kajun

Edited by Krazy Kajun

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25 minutes ago, Krazy Kajun said:

Noz, if'n you'd slow yore roll just a mite you'd see that my post was immediately after PWB's definitive ruling and both were posted at the same time.  Don't be so quick to try and jump on folks and say "Next shooter!"  We all know what PWB says about the rules is gospel.  Geez!

 

 

Backwater, see my post to Noz above.  I'll take all the stars I can get, don't many come my way! :lol:

 

Kajun

Let's not elevate him to GOD status just yet!

 

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