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Pill Roller, SASS #77160

inconsistent belling a 650

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My 650 seems to be giving me a bit of trouble with belling.   Not loading a SASS caliber right now, doing 9mm,

and getting lead shavings on some of the rounds.  I can see differences on the bell as the cases go by but not all of them

shave.  I am using coated bullets and have used 2 different brands with the same result.  I have adjusted the powder drop for

the belling but don't want to go to far.  Would appreciated any ideas.

Thanks

Pill Roller 

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1st thing to check may be to check case length. Longer cases will bell more.....

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After you confirm that your cases are pretty consistent length, check the shell plate being "wobble-free".   And the shell plate not being gummed up with crud, especially in the shell notches.  

 

If you put downward pressure on the plate at the case-expander/powder-drop station and you can SEE deflection in the shell plate, you don't have the hold-down (center) bolt tight enough.   If you can't advance the shell plate all the way around the press by thumb pressure on the plate, you have the bolt too tight.    If you have bent the shell plate, get a new one from Dillon.

 

Good luck, GJ

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Check the shell plate and see if the center bolt is loose.

If it is, the shell plate will move up and down per each case and cause different belling depths in the case.

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I do not see a loose shell holder causing inconsistent belling. The shell is pressed firmly on to the plate on the ram, but I have seen that base come loose.  When you take the shell holder out to clean( good idea )  Check the 4 allen screws that hold the plate to the ram.   If loose, Dillon has an alignment tool to properly hold the plate while you tighten the screws.  Personally , I would bell the cases more to make bullet seating easier.  9 m/m cases are cheap and loss rate is high in bottom feeders so long case life not as important         IMHO        GW

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I'm betting with Yusta. Case lengths vary. Had the same problem with 45 Colt til I checked and started to trim all my cases. Although trimming a bunch of 9mm might be a pain, especially if you have a high loss rate at the range.

 

Rev. Chase

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Yep ... if you use all the same brand brass (length) etc ... life is wonderful. Unfortunately, that isn't always convenient / feasible. 

You often end up having a really big bell to compensate. 

After adding a bullet feeder to my 650 the inconsistency became more of a problem ... soooo ... I started using the "M" type (stepped) powder funnel/expanders from Mr Bullet Feeder. 

I don't have a MBF bullet feeder (I use a different brand) but the expanders are outstanding.

I use them on all loads (bullet feeder production or not).

They come in 9mm/38, 40 and 45. 

 

edit: here are some at Midway ... lots of people sell them ..

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2670460203

 

Edited by Patagonia Pete
edit: add link ...
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Thanks for the information I am going to check things out.  I have a lot of federal cases will run some to see if its a case length problem.

Will also check out the shell and proceed from there.

If it is case length I ll have to see who needs 6,000 mixed cases :)

 

Thanks!

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You don't have any 380 brass mixed in with 9mm do you?

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Laughed so much a few years ago. One of my friends returned, he was guessing was one of my 38 supers that he had run thru while loading a batch of 40 S&W.   Interesting looking round  Hard to chamber though        GW

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On 1/19/2020 at 2:26 PM, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

After you confirm that your cases are pretty consistent length, check the shell plate being "wobble-free".   And the shell plate not being gummed up with crud, especially in the shell notches.  

 

If you put downward pressure on the plate at the case-expander/powder-drop station and you can SEE deflection in the shell plate, you don't have the hold-down (center) bolt tight enough.   If you can't advance the shell plate all the way around the press by thumb pressure on the plate, you have the bolt too tight.    If you have bent the shell plate, get a new one from Dillon.

 

Good luck, GJ

Placing an appropriate diameter thrust needle bearing under the shell plate will stop the wobble.  

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45 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

an appropriate diameter thrust needle bearing under the shell plate will stop the wobble.  

 

That will make the press operation smoother, but a needle bearing there is NOT needed to load 9 MM appropriately.   Tons of pards load on a 650 without the bearing and make good ammo.    The OP has some problem other than needing a needle bearing.

 

Good luck, GJ

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12 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

That will make the press operation smoother, but a needle bearing there is NOT needed to load 9 MM appropriately.   Tons of pards load on a 650 without the bearing and make good ammo.    The OP has some problem other than needing a needle bearing.

 

Good luck, GJ

Agree, and I failed to mention that adding a bearing under the shell plate will require primer seating clearance to be readjusted. 

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On 1/19/2020 at 1:16 PM, Pill Roller, SASS #77160 said:

My 650 seems to be giving me a bit of trouble with belling.   Not loading a SASS caliber right now, doing 9mm,

and getting lead shavings on some of the rounds.  I can see differences on the bell as the cases go by but not all of them

shave.  I am using coated bullets and have used 2 different brands with the same result.  I have adjusted the powder drop for

the belling but don't want to go to far.  Would appreciated any ideas.

Thanks

Pill Roller 

Make sure your powder hopper is tight! if not it can move and change your bell! this happened to me once. V.D.

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48 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Agree, and I failed to mention that adding a bearing under the shell plate will require primer seating clearance to be readjusted. 

The bearing does not go under the shell plate ! if you put it under the plate you did it wrong!

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1 hour ago, Von Dutch, SASS # 7995 said:

The bearing does not go under the shell plate ! if you put it under the plate you did it wrong!

Mine came with directions and a diagram showing installation beneath the shell plate.  With minor primer clearance adjustment it has worked fine.   The shell plate is vertically stable.  When I get a chance to interrupt my loading, I'll try it on top, as you described, and readjust things, then see if anything improves.  Thanks for the info.   

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2 hours ago, Von Dutch, SASS # 7995 said:

Make sure your powder hopper is tight!

 

Yep, the Dillon measure and linkage has a tendency to get loose and sloppy.   Be REAL certain you have the lock ring on that die tight, as well as the screws holding the linkage parts!  And check it again if you start seeing a few "big bells" on your expanded cases.

 

Good luck, GJ

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2 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Mine came with directions and a diagram showing installation beneath the shell plate.  With minor primer clearance adjustment it has worked fine.   The shell plate is vertically stable.  When I get a chance to interrupt my loading, I'll try it on top, as you described, and readjust things, then see if anything improves.  Thanks for the info.   

I have seen six different maker's and those all go on top of the shell plate! I would not want one that went under! V.D.

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On 1/22/2020 at 12:50 PM, Von Dutch, SASS # 7995 said:

I have seen six different maker's and those all go on top of the shell plate! I would not want one that went under! V.D.

Agreed!  If you install under the shell plate you can't install the washer.  Been there done that!

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On 1/19/2020 at 1:37 PM, Yusta B. said:

1st thing to check may be to check case length. Longer cases will bell more.....

Since rimless cases index on the case mouth case length is very important.  The first time you reload once fired rimless cases you have to resize & then trim them.  An exception would be if only shot in revolvers with moon clips. 

Also with the 2 times I bought new Starline 45 Colt cases I had to be resize them.  The 1st time I had to disassemble 100 cartridges when most failed a case gauge check.

 

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