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Are MVA Hadley Selectable Aperture Eye Cups Legal?

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Because of the residual effects of radial kertonomy eye surgery combined with a tiny cataract in my shooting eye, the small hole in my Uberti Highwall Hadley eye cup gives me a lot of distortion when I look through it.  On a hunch, I drilled the hole a bit larger and it significantly reduced the distortion, but I've found that depending on the distance to the target, I need a larger or smaller hole.  Are the Montana Vintage Arms Hadley eye cups with the selectable hole diameters legal for SASS and NRA long range competitions?  I've checked the Shooters Guide and wonder if they would be disqualified because of the selectable hole diameter feature.  I haven't come across any information that the 1800's cowboys had adjustable apertures.  Here is a link to their webpage: 

 

https://montanavintagearms.com/product/sights/mva/eye-discs/

 

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Yes. I think NRA rules disallow an adjustable iris sight, but the Hadley and Baldwin styles are fine.

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A suggestion.

You  have a drilled hole that works for you but you need another size under certain conditions.

 

The suggest it to try removing the eye piece and use just the threaded hole and see how that works.

I have found that some shooters try to use a hole that is too small making for blurred edges and distortion.

The cut threads will allow your to see clearer and center the target more quickly.

 

Cost yu nothng to give this a try.

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Posted (edited)

Thank you all.  However I just found I'll also need a 12-28 tap to retap my Tang since MVA does not have their Hadleys in a M5-20 thread!  No big deal.

 

MMG

Edited by Mountain Man Gramps
added "not"

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Quote

 

Rifle Sights

- Tang mounted rear sights may utilize changeable “peep” apertures and eyecups. 

 

SHB p.37

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Mountain Man Gramps said:

Thank you all.  However I just found I'll also need a 12-28 tap to retap my Tang since MVA does have their Hadleys in a M5-20 thread!  No big deal.

 

MMG

 

Call them. They may make you one for less money that what a tap and drill would cost. Also check with Lee Shaver and Buffalo Arms.

 

This explains how to properly use a Hadley cup.

HOW TO USE TANG TYPE REAR SIGHTS

 

 

Edited by Sedalia Dave

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Posted (edited)

MVA only mades Hadley's for their sights.

OP, who made your sights then?

Have you called them?

OLG 

Edited by The Original Lumpy Gritz

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Peeps should only be drilled from the front with a tapered reamer instead of a drill bit as this way the edge of the hole is sharper.

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13 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

SHB p.37

Thanks Palewolf, I missed that.

 

As for retapping the sight, a M5-20 thread can be upsized to a 12-28 which MVA supports for an additional $15 charge.  A tap bit and drill bit is under $10 on Amazon.  I have the skills to do it so unless there is a source a lot cheaper than MVA, I’ll go with them because of their quality reputation.

 

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23 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Yes-Legal in both. 

I use one....

OLG 


What size do you have - the regular or magnum?  Which would you recommend?

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I use the regular. 

Call MVA and talk to them.

The large one has many more sizes to work with.

OLG 

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OLG (or others), how often do you need/use the windage adjustment and spirit level on your sights?  What I’m trying to figure is whether the extra expense is worth it.  Which would you say is most important?  I know the purist would say get both.

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Spirit level,  every shot. If the mast isn't perpendicular every time, the bullet isn't going to the same spot every time and it just gets worse as range increases.

Windage, very seldom.

Under calm conditions, if the mast is set up perfectly perpendicular to the centerline of the rifle, and the bubble level is actually level to the rifle, there should be no appreciable difference in windage as the range increases. But often enough, I see people referring to their notes and cranking in windage as they increase elevation, so either the mast isn't straight up, or the level isn't level. When the wind is blowing, it's usually erratic enough that there are differences in windage every shot, so I just guesstimate how far into the wind to hold and touch it off. Unless it's a 40+ mph crosswind, it isn't much - a 535 grain bullet bucks the wind well, and targets are normally pretty big, like a full-size bear at mid ranges or a full-size buffalo at extended ranges. It's not like you have to hold ten or fifteen feet into the wind. ;) If you've only got, say, ten minutes to get off ten shots at three different ranges, it's really not enough time to be referring to your notes and messing with anything but elevation, especially with black powder and a blow tube between shots. 

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2 hours ago, Mountain Man Gramps said:

OLG (or others), how often do you need/use the windage adjustment and spirit level on your sights?  What I’m trying to figure is whether the extra expense is worth it.  Which would you say is most important?  I know the purist would say get both.

Every time I pull the trigger.

I use MVA Long Range  Buffalo Soule on both of our Shiloh's.

The front is a MVA #113 using 'lollipop' type inserts.

How about some details on the rifle and what you want to use it for?

What distance will you shoot?

OLG 

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I’m shooting an Uberti .38-55 Highwall and just getting started.  I plan on shooting BP, but for now I’m using up the smokeless ammo that came with the gun shooting at a 100 yard range.  That’s the only range that I have convenient access to.  I came across a deal that included the gun, a bunch of ammo, reloading dies, and a bunch of other stuff for a price I couldn’t turn down.  I know .45-70 is more common, but between the entry price of the deal and the reduced recoil, I’m very happy.  I can shoot that gun all day.

 

I plan on shooting as long a distance as the gun will let me at Cowboys shoots.  I don’t know how long that is yet.  I’ll be at the Double R Bar State Championships in April.  Needless to say I don’t expect to place, much less medal, I’m going there to learn from the experts and have fun.  I’ve also been doing a lot of reading including Steve Cable and Mike Venturino’s books on BP buffalo rifles and reloading primer.  I’ve been a Cowboy for less than a year and having a blast! (No pun intended...)

Edited by Mountain Man Gramps
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RR-Bar will be 200-225 is all.

Most likely held on bay 1. 

Your .38-55 should do very well.

Keep a log book of sight settings for distance and wind.

Those ..38 slugs will be easily pushed around by wind.

Wind at RR-Bar is common. It is the Mojave Desert.....

Never/ever go the cheap on sights.

MVA's are pricey, but well worth it:excl:

OLG 

Edited by The Original Lumpy Gritz
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Lee Shaver makes excellent Sights and Eve -cups of the Hadley design  .....

I have a good friend that uses a Original High-wall in .38-55 and has shot it rather well out to 900+ yards .... Two down-falls with it It will Not always dump a fairly hit Ram at 500 yards  That and Wind he gets more than twice the wind drift at 900 yards as I get with my .40-65 ... Plus a lot more Drop ...

My .40-65 with my 423 gr. soft cast bullets will Dump any fairly hit Ram out past 1,000 Yards ....

I find windage adjustment to be a boon, but I don't have a level on my guns ....  But I do Not cant my gun ....

On a Windless Day ( Very Rare ) I shot from 300 to 1,300 yards with nom windage  Adjustment needed ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

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I didn't think I canted my gun until I shot one with a spirit level. It's worth the price because it'll help you shoot your other guns better too by training you to hold the gun level. 

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Thanks all for your input.  I found the adjustable Aperture Hadley from Track of the Wolf mentioned by John Boy has threads that fit the Uberti.  That means I don't need to modify the Tang sight on my rifle.  I also found out that Pedersoli and Uberti use the same size dovetail for the front sight so I ordered a Pedersoli front spirit sight with windage adjustment for $165.  The "windage" scale is on the muzzle side of the sight, so it will probably be more useful for sighting in the gun than windage correction under timed shooting, but still useful.  The iron post in my current sight isn't good for distances beyond 75 yards.  Both items are in stock and hopefully will be in my hands by this weekend.

 

Really looking forward to the state championships at the Double R Bar to learn from the experts!

Edited by Mountain Man Gramps

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Just got to remember, that when adjusting the front sight.

You move the front sight in the opposite direction you want the bullet to hit.

Also, adjustable front sights like that,  are a good bit taller than the non-adjustable models.

OLG 

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Also, adjustable front sights like that,  are a good bit taller than the non-adjustable models.

 

Yes, that's true.  The shortest non-adjustable sight I found is 0.404" above the plane of the barrel, the one I picked is 0.500" above the barrel's plane, not too bad.

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Follow Up about spirt levels ... if shooting distances over 100 yards without a spirt level ... the cant of the rifle will put the bullet off the POA. At 1000 yds it averages 4 MOA’s off the POA - point of aim

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 "... if shooting distances over 100 yards without a spirit level ... the cant of the rifle will put the bullet off the POA.  At 1000 yds it averages 4 MOA’s off the POA - point of aim."  -  John Boy

 

I had to think about that a bit.   Rotating the rifle produces a horizontal offset between the center of the sight and the center of the barrel.  That pretty much states the importance of a spirit level.

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OR holding the Gun Level !!!

How ever this is achieved

 

Jabez Cowboy.

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