bgavin Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I've read all the PDF on the Widdermatic and Marauder 1894 Marlin tricks. Q: is there any update, or are these procedures still the main reference for 1894 reliability tweaks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I believe so, and good ol' @Widder, SASS #59054 will likely be along sometime today and confirm that. Gunner Gatlin has a permanent fix for the Marlin Jam; he does something to your carrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 McCandless and the Marauder PDF both mention using hardened saw blades + JB Weld to create the hard surface. I'm not a gunsmith, nor do I play one on TV... But.. I am a skilled mechanic, so the first question that comes to mind is the changing of the dimension with the addition of the saw blade. I do wonder if this changes some timing event somewhere in the chain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, bgavin said: McCandless and the Marauder PDF both mention using hardened saw blades + JB Weld to create the hard surface. I'm not a gunsmith, nor do I play one on TV... But.. I am a skilled mechanic, so the first question that comes to mind is the changing of the dimension with the addition of the saw blade. I do wonder if this changes some timing event somewhere in the chain... That's why I mentioned Gunner, cheap permanent fix. Pretty sure he welds some very hard steel on there and shapes it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still hand Bill Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Adding the saw blade does change the timing. It advances it slightly which seems to be needed for some guns. The best fix is to weld it up or add an insert of tool steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I have seen several saw blade/JB weld fixes fail. JB is not a permanent fix-It doesn't deal well around oil etc. Gunner's fix is what Marlin should have done, from day one My 'shade-tree' fix(weld up the groove) works well also. You can also bend the carrier to adjust timing, and fix the MJ. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 To my mind, the correct way would be first machining down the surface by the thickness of the hard steel insert. This would keep the timing at "factory standard" but will not correct any inherent timing problem in this particular rifle. I don't know if this is the Gunner fix or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, bgavin said: To my mind, the correct way would be first machining down the surface by the thickness of the hard steel insert. This would keep the timing at "factory standard" but will not correct any inherent timing problem in this particular rifle. I don't know if this is the Gunner fix or not. Message him and ask, he's a great guy @Gunner Gatlin, SASS # 10274 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I've seen a Gunner carrier mod. Looks to me like a carbide saw tooth soldered into a cut in the ramp part of the carrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Howdy bgavin. Great topic, yet a little difficult to explain in writing. 3 hours ago, Still hand Bill said: Adding the saw blade does change the timing. It advances it slightly which seems to be needed for some guns. The best fix is to weld it up or add an insert of tool steel. What Still Hand Bill stated is correct. Adding any height to the carrier timing ramp will change the timing, just like taking any off will change the timing. But here is the basic facts: Adding a little height will basically ENHANCE your timing. It will often allow your rifle to function with both shorter and longer ammo. Taking away some of the height will DECREASE the performance of the timing and normally, ONLY longer OAL ammo will function well. And sometimes, it may not. Adding onto the carrier ramp advances the timing and is easy to adjust, especially if you want to use short OAL ammo. Personally, Gunner Gatlins fix is the best fix I have seen for the Marlin timing. I normally recommend that most folks request Gunner to give them a slight increase in ramp height. If you have ever seen the video of the WIddermajik running the C45S and the .45 Colt interchangably, you will become a believer in the importance of proper timing and setting up the carrier ramp correctly. Feel free to call me if you want. I'm always glad to help folks understand how some of these things interact so they can have a good, reliable Marlin. ..........Widder 865 / 696-1996 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Thanks y'all for the kind words - will reach out to bgavin. GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 Done. I spent an hour on the phone with Widder... Outstanding fella.. I am honored to be so well schooled. I will opt for the Gunner fix, with the understand that I plan to shoot 38SP OAL in the Marlin for the most part. I understand this means adding 0.005" to the regular height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 bgavin, It was very good talking with you. I'm impressed as to your eagerness to learn 'stuff' and you present knowledge of some of the things we talked about. Indeed, if you plan to shoot .38 special with OAL from approx 1.42 up to approx 1.50, then I would ask Gunner to give you a little height increase and in my opinion, .005 should do the trick. You will be impressed with Gunners mod. If you have any other questions, etc..... feel free to call anytime. Being retired has its advantages..... ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 12 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: bgavin, It was very good talking with you. I'm impressed as to your eagerness to learn 'stuff' and you present knowledge of some of the things we talked about. Indeed, if you plan to shoot .38 special with OAL from approx 1.42 up to approx 1.50, then I would ask Gunner to give you a little height increase and in my opinion, .005 should do the trick. You will be impressed with Gunners mod. If you have any other questions, etc..... feel free to call anytime. Being retired has its advantages..... ..........Widder Just remember 9pm in California is 12AM in Knoxville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 17 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said: Just remember 9pm in California is 1AM in Knoxville Midnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoky Pistols Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 17 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said: Just remember 9pm in California is 1AM in Knoxville I'd give that a +1, but I think you already did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said: Midnight That's what I get for trying to do math in my head... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Is there ANY bad time to help someone? Slightly inconvenient..... but not bad. As stated, being retired has its advantages..... like staying up late. Besides, it ain't unusual for TN Williams to call me late most every night to let me know about his 'nanner split' at DQ. When its midnight at my house, its only 11:00 p.m. at his house. He has no respect for his elders..... ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 13 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: Is there ANY bad time to help someone? Slightly inconvenient..... but not bad. As stated, being retired has its advantages..... like staying up late. Besides, it ain't unusual for TN Williams to call me late most every night to let me know about his 'nanner split' at DQ. When its midnight at my house, its only 11:00 p.m. at his house. He has no respect for his elders..... ..........Widder No, it's always good to help someone. Really didn't mean it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 1 hour ago, bgavin said: Done. I spent an hour on the phone with Widder... Outstanding fella.. I am honored to be so well schooled. I will opt for the Gunner fix, with the understand that I plan to shoot 38SP OAL in the Marlin for the most part. I understand this means adding 0.005" to the regular height. Good choice Please post up a range report. Good luck, OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 I don't do phones. Can't hear. Widder and I corresponded copious amounts by email over the years. I can attach videos and pictures that demonstrate a problem or a fix much better than a conversation on the phone. Unfortunately, he likes to talk on phone and hasn't picked up any knack of making videos or posting pictures. I wish we lived close enough we could work things through and I could document it on video or pictures. We met face to face at Black Gold a couple of years back. Neither one of us can hear so Sawmill Mary had to interpret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 41 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said: I don't do phones. Can't hear. Widder and I corresponded copious amounts by email over the years. I can attach videos and pictures that demonstrate a problem or a fix much better than a conversation on the phone. Unfortunately, he likes to talk on phone and hasn't picked up any knack of making videos or posting pictures. I wish we lived close enough we could work things through and I could document it on video or pictures. We met face to face at Black Gold a couple of years back. Neither one of us can hear so Sawmill Mary had to interpret. Very true. Warden has taken great knowledge of his Marlin skills and brought back to life some old and cherished Marlin. My guess is that he can do about any thing he wants with the 1894, 1895 and 336 models. My guess is most of the Wire Pards really enjoy his pictures and his work descriptions. Keep up the good work Warden. p.s. - hope to introduce my 'Flopper Stopper' soon! Test are going great. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Widder heaps too much praise on my skills to repair and modify Marlins. I've owned both old and new Marlin lever action rifles for many years and development enough skill to take them apart and get them back together. It wasn't until more recent that I made any effort to modify or make serious repair of one. Widder spent six months helping me modify my 1894 to feed Cowboy 45 Special. I still have to study and think out problems that he could easily solve by experience. Just this morning I got out my Marlin project gun and was watching how it fed a cartridge from the tube onto the carrier. I used a tip Widder just told me - pull the bolt so I could see the cartridge come out onto the carrier and how it lifted. I did and think I have a clue of how to proceed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted July 24, 2019 Author Share Posted July 24, 2019 Widder, much obliged for your kindness this afternoon. Much appreciated. I most certainly enjoyed that long chat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 3 hours ago, bgavin said: Widder, much obliged for your kindness this afternoon. Much appreciated. I most certainly enjoyed that long chat. I'm sure we'll talk again when you get into that Marlin AND when you get your Henry .22 ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 14 hours ago, Warden Callaway said: Widder heaps too much praise on my skills to repair and modify Marlins. I've owned both old and new Marlin lever action rifles for many years and development enough skill to take them apart and get them back together. It wasn't until more recent that I made any effort to modify or make serious repair of one. Widder spent six months helping me modify my 1894 to feed Cowboy 45 Special. I still have to study and think out problems that he could easily solve by experience. Just this morning I got out my Marlin project gun and was watching how it fed a cartridge from the tube onto the carrier. I used a tip Widder just told me - pull the bolt so I could see the cartridge come out onto the carrier and how it lifted. I did and think I have a clue of how to proceed. I for one, truly enjoy your videos Please keep making'em. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 On 7/23/2019 at 3:50 PM, bgavin said: To my mind, the correct way would be first machining down the surface by the thickness of the hard steel insert. This would keep the timing at "factory standard" but will not correct any inherent timing problem in this particular rifle. I don't know if this is the Gunner fix or not. That is the Gunner fix! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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