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Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438

C&R License Scrutinized

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So the fellow in CA with the 1000+ gun "hoard" used an "obscure Federal license" (C&R) to accumulate his inventory......

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/bel-air-gun-raid-suspect-may-face-federal-charges-11557841102?mod=hp_listc_pos6

 

 

If I hold a C&R, I would expect to see a bit more attention from the Feds, and maybe from the State in gun-unfriendly areas.

 

LL

 

 

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Well, WSJ won’t let you read the whole story, but I have read other stories regarding this. I look at it as a witch hunt. 

 

Lines from reporters like; 

“authorities allege there may be fully automatic weapons”

”using an obscure license to hoard, sell and manufacture weapons”

”alleged violations of California Assault Weapons and .50 Caliber laws”

 

I have a feeling there will be a page 7 story in a few months about his fine and the return of all his legal guns.

 

Then there will be an outcry and the city of Bel Air will enact a law in a knee jerk reaction to a law abiding citizens bringing the light of the world on their little piece of the world. 

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Obscure?? Ha!! C&R isn't a dealers license ... but ... If the C&R transactions are in his bound book then no big deal. 

Every three years when you renew they now ask you on the application how many transactions you have had ...

Would be funny if his renewal app and book is all in order.

You are right Pat ... will probably be a little page 7 "oops" article. I wonder "who" the informant was?

 

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Obscure?  As of 5/10/19, type 03 FFL were 52,704 out of 131,689 total FFLs according to the BATFE.

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Many of the firearms in that haul do not fall under C&R.

OLG

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A C&R license doesn't allow you to engage in the business of buying/selling firearms. It also applies only to firearms over 50 years old and/or of particular significance as a collectible (ATF has a list of what qualifies). A lot of C&R holders get into trouble because they violate these two rules.

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2 hours ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

A C&R license doesn't allow you to engage in the business of buying/selling firearms. It also applies only to firearms over 50 years old and/or of particular significance as a collectible (ATF has a list of what qualifies). A lot of C&R holders get into trouble because they violate these two rules.

State laws will tell you what your C&R is good for.;)

OLG

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7 hours ago, sassnetguy50 said:

Another article listed the informant as a nervous nelly neighbor.

If you think that's bad, wait until Colorado's "Red Flag" law kicks in June 1st!  Anyone with a grudge against a gun owner, including a neighbor or even a p.o'd wife can report to police of being afraid of someone being a threat, and they can come take the guns, and it won't be until much later, if ever, even if the claims are totally false, that the gun owner MIGHT be able to get a hearing and get his/her guns back! :angry:  Wasn't there a failed artist/wallpaper hanger who did much the same thing auf Deutchland? :ph34r:

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10 hours ago, Patagonia Pete said:

Obscure?? Ha!! C&R isn't a dealers license ... but ... If the C&R transactions are in his bound book then no big deal. 

Every three years when you renew they now ask you on the application how many transactions you have had ...

Would be funny if his renewal app and book is all in order.

You are right Pat ... will probably be a little page 7 "oops" article. I wonder "who" the informant was?

 

Well , if his bound book is full of sales it could look like he's using the C&R to conduct a business. That would be a problem.

The liberals might make a run on ATF to get rid of this "obscure" license that allows people to amass "Arsenals"

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29 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Well , if his bound book is full of sales it could look like he's using the C&R to conduct a business. That would be a problem.

The liberals might make a run on ATF to get rid of this "obscure" license that allows people to amass "Arsenals"

Yeah .. but they have that all screwed up ... Having a bunch of outgoing in the book isn't really an indication of running a business (by itself).

Infact ... if you fail to renew your C&R license you don't even have to turn in your book.  

There is no limiting numbers mentioned by BATF for incoming or outgoing ... only that C&R criteria guns be recorded.

They would have to prove he is running a business.

I used to always see the same people making private sales on local forums (w/o mention of a license of any kind) ... (and in large quantities ... consistent presence etc) ... AND ... wondered why a local BATF agent wouldn't follow up or try to make an "unlicensed business" case. Never seen that.

At least w/ a C&R the guy can get C&R criteria guns delivered right to his house.    

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11 minutes ago, Patagonia Pete said:

Yeah .. but they have that all screwed up ... Having a bunch of outgoing in the book isn't really an indication of running a business (by itself).

Infact ... if you fail to renew your C&R license you don't even have to turn in your book.  

There is no limiting numbers mentioned by BATF for incoming or outgoing ... only that C&R criteria guns be recorded.

They would have to prove he is running a business.

I used to always see the same people making private sales on local forums (w/o mention of a license of any kind) ... (and in large quantities ... consistent presence etc) ... AND ... wondered why a local BATF agent wouldn't follow up or try to make an "unlicensed business" case. Never seen that.

At least w/ a C&R the guy can get C&R criteria guns delivered right to his house.    

I have had a C&R for years. Basically BATFE has bigger things going on than checking on collectors. They rarely do. But if they do because somebody dropped a dime on you, and you have a large amount of outgoing guns, you will be in for some close scrutiny. 

 

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3 hours ago, Trailrider #896 said:

If you think that's bad, wait until Colorado's "Red Flag" law kicks in June 1st!  Anyone with a grudge against a gun owner, including a neighbor or even a p.o'd wife can report to police of being afraid of someone being a threat, and they can come take the guns, and it won't be until much later, if ever, even if the claims are totally false, that the gun owner MIGHT be able to get a hearing and get his/her guns back! :angry:  Wasn't there a failed artist/wallpaper hanger who did much the same thing auf Deutchland? :ph34r:

Yes, but those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

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5 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

The liberals might make a run on ATF to get rid of this "obscure" license that allows people to amass "Arsenals"

I expect it soon. There are a LOT of modern firearms that fall under the 50 year rule now. Weatherby Mk V's, Remington 700's, Winchester M70's, early Colt AR15's... I think even the first Ruger M77's are now C&R.

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25 minutes ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

I expect it soon. There are a LOT of modern firearms that fall under the 50 year rule now. Weatherby Mk V's, Remington 700's, Winchester M70's, early Colt AR15's... I think even the first Ruger M77's are now C&R.

IMHO ... Fortunately ... (for us) there seems to be little understanding (by "those people") of current firearm laws or ATF licencing structure.

I think if there was ... then they could have easily done more creative things ... like make AR15s an NFA weapon etc ...

It appears they only live in the current ... depending on social media for direction.  They have solutions like ... every government agency purchasing epic volumes of ammo and guns to keep it from the deplorables etc ... (although that may have declined w/ the exit of the last Democratic president etc).   

 

Edit >>

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2017/10/20/why-are-federal-bureaucrats-buying-guns-and-ammo-158-million-spent-by-non-military-agencies/#3ba8d36764a1

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