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Shooting Bull

‘73 ejection problem Part II

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As you may remember one of my ‘73s started jamming up. Empty case would get hung up upon ejection locking up the rifle. Expert trouble shooting (Please don’t tell Gawd Awful I called him an expert) has determined the carrier is coming up and jamming into the case too soon. I know of two fixes, take some material off the lifter where the lever contact it or bend the lifter-arm. What would be your next step? 

 

P.S. This problem is a recent development. Rifle ran great until recently.That tells me something got bent or something is worn. 

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Compare parts from "un-broke" gun to "broke" gun... and go from there.  Some might say install carrier & lifter from good '73 into yours and see if that fixes the problem.   But, among my 3 toggle-links (2 1873s & and Henry), there are some differences.  I suspect those differences are due to the relative age of the arms.  

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Always modify the cheapest part first       GW

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Do not remove metal from something that has functioned correctly in the past! You can't put it back.

I am not a '73 expert, but I suspect that if you are not careful, when you alter the timing on that carrier you could end up with it not coming up far enough to function properly.   I suggest that you compare your rifle's innards to one that is functioning properly and find out what is causing your malfunction before you do anything.

 

Good Luck,

Duffield

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6 hours ago, Shooting Bull said:

This problem is a recent development. Rifle ran great until recently.That tells me something got bent or something is worn. 

 

THAT background always makes me suspect the lever has been bent by excessive force, either an out of battery or a hard levering when things got stuck.

 

I'd lay the lever on top of a known correctly shaped lever and check that.  Uberti 73 levers bend easily.  Also they can be bent back into shape easily. 

 

It's possible to bend a lifter arm.  But not common.   It's possible to wear out a lifter to be out of correct geometry, but not common. 

 

Look for the usual suspect first.  Or perhaps Uri Geller (a telekineticist)

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

THAT background always makes me suspect the lever has been bent by excessive force, either an out of battery or a hard levering when things got stuck.

 

I'd lay the lever on top of a known correctly shaped lever and check that.  Uberti 73 levers bend easily.  Also they can be bent back into shape easily. 

 

 

Bull is a big strong fellow and even a momentary sticky case is enough to tweak the lever when cycling with force.

 

And since Shooting Bull runs his rifle with grace and gentle smoothness...

Whoops scratch that - Shooting Bull uses the same method I do; when the buzzer goes off - work the lever like you're trying to physically remove it from the rifle.

Edited by Creeker, SASS #43022
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Posted (edited)

Is the tab on the bottom of the bolt in place an not broke?  Just a thought and may have nothing to do with the issue at hand.

 

That would have been a better pun if it were a revolver problem...

Edited by Doc Shapiro
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Levers bend pretty easily.  Lifter arms seem to break easily.

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I had a similar issue turned out my short stroke links wore enough to cause my head space to be to much and threw everything out of time, failure to extract,

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Upon rereading your post, you said the carrier is coming up too soon.  That would mean that the rifle has gotten out of time and the bolt tab is now in grave danger of getting broken off by the rim of the next cartridge hitting the bolt tab as the carrier lifts.

 

If your lifter stops in the right place when the bolt is closed and when the bolt is fully open, it’s doubtful that the lifter arm is broken.  Bending the lever, as from an out of battery discharge, would prevent the links going fully into battery when closed but wouldn’t change the relationship with the links and lifter.  Bending the lever the other way, as in hitting the open lever on a table, wouldn’t either.  

 

Retarding the timing slightly by taking a little more off the lifter where it contacts the lever will slow the lifter rise with relation to the bolt.

 

If you have an after market aluminum lifter, you might try the stock lifter and see if that solves the problem

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SB-Check your headspace and that may tell you, that you have worn links etc.

X2 on bent lever.

OLG

 

 

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2 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

SB-Check your headspace and that may tell you, that you have worn links etc.

X2 on bent lever.

OLG

 

 

Okay, I'll bite. How do you check headspace?

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15 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

Okay, I'll bite. How do you check headspace?

I use the same "Plasti-gage" I use as when checking crankshaft or rod bearings.   IIRC, headspace should run between .003" -.007".

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Posted (edited)

Rough way of doing it..

put a spent primer in a empty case..

just barely (just a little bit) seat the primer into

the primer pocket of the empty case..

The majority of the primer should be sticking out..

Place it (the empty partially primed case)

into the breech and slowly close the lever all the way..

Take the empty case out and measure how much primer is sticking out..

I'm thinking it should be around .002-.007 headspace..

What's left sticking out is your headspace..

I usually set up 3-4 empty cases to make sure I get the same reading..

 

Rance ;)

Thinkin I mentioned it's a "Rough way"  of doing it..:rolleyes:

oh yea... I ain't a gunsmith..:huh:

I reckon there will be better qualified folks that'll reply..:)

 

edit: I use my calipers for measuring..

(I don't have a depth gauge with that small of increments)

I measure from the open end of the case to the end of

the case head.. OAL... I write it down..

I then do the same measurement and include the

partially seated primer OAL..

subtract one from the other for your headspace..

 

Edited by Rance - SASS # 54090
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Shade tree way:huh:-Pop a primer in 5 different head-stamped  empty resized cases, and measure how far the primer backs out from the case head of each case. Then take a average of that. Anything more than .006", is a concern.

Have the muzzle pointed up for each 'pop'. ;)

OLG 

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30 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Shade tree way:huh:-Pop a primer in 5 different head-stamped  empty resized cases, and measure how far the primer backs out from the case head of each case. Then take a average of that. Anything more than .006", is a concern.

Have the muzzle pointed up for each 'pop'. ;)

OLG 

 

That sounds like the most exciting way. You ever done that without warning Ima Schofield first? :lol:

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11 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

That sounds like the most exciting way. You ever done that without warning Ima Schofield first? :lol:

I only look stupid........:lol:

OLG

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Or use a headspace go/no-go gage.  No guessing then.  Headspace also take's into consideration bore erosion, which a case may or may not do.  .004 is not much at all.  Check out the difference in brass, way more then .004

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