What's The Call?

[Griff]

Ok, like us all, I've read hundreds of these. But, I don't recall this one:

 

Shooter comes up to the loading table, sets rifle & shotgun down, lays down his loading strip with the correct number if required for rifle & pistol. Loading table officer indicates it's his turn to load.

 

Shooter reaches down, closes action on rifle, pulls trigger, dropping the hammer. Proceeds to load rifle w/no fuss, pushes it slightly aside and draws 1st pistol. Shooter shoots Colt action pistols so he opens loading gate and pulls hammer to the loading notch, (what some refer to as "½-cock"). Shooter aligns chamber with gate opening and loads 1, rotates cylinder to pass up the next chamber, lining up the 3rd, and drops a round in that chamber and the next 3 consecutive chambers. At which point he close the gate & pulls the hammer back to full cock.

 

He then lifts the revolver and aligns it so that the LTO has a clear view between the cylinder and recoil shield,with the barrel pointed safely @ the berm; and looks to the LTO for confirmation. THE LTO nods or indicates that the shooter needs to drop the hammer, which the shooter does by pulling the trigger.

 

What's the call?

[Grizzly Dave]

Spell check your second sentence, you won't have to look far.

 

As to the call, I would say SDQ, call it unsafe handling or dry firing at the loading table, your pick

 

RO 1 Page 20

 

30. Dry firing at the loading table is not allowed and will result in a Stage Disqualification. Dry

firing is allowed only at designated safe areas. Dry firing is defined as the act of bringing the

gun into a shooting position, cocking the hammer, and pulling the trigger as if to cause the

gun to fire normally.

Page 25 under SDQ offenses

• Unsafe firearm handling, such as fanning.

Edit to add - as LTO I would not check the pistol until the hammer was down.

[Fingers McGee]

No Call. It wasn't dry firing or unsafe. Empty chamber was under cocked hammer, pulling trigger resulted in 'click'. Shooter was under control of LTO.

 

Fingers (show Me MO smoke) McGee

[Grizzly Dave]

Good evening Fingers!

[Griff]

No, I didn't; meant to "preview", I was editing while you were typing.

[Fingers McGee]

Good evening Fingers!

Hey Dave. How you doin out there in Lake Colorado?

[Grizzly Dave]

Gave me a chuckle at any rate

[Grizzly Dave]

Sorry for the hijack Griff.

 

Doing well, treading water. House is fine other than a small leak in the ceiling, highway is washed out to our cabin, as is the access road up to the cabin from the highway. Some friends hiked in and reported that there was some damage to the cabin itself, not real sure how much though, and it may be spring before we can drive up there.

[Fingers McGee]

Sorry for the hijack Griff.

 

Doing well, treading water. House is fine other than a small leak in the ceiling, highway is washed out to our cabin, as is the access road up to the cabin from the highway. Some friends hiked in and reported that there was some damage to the cabin itself, not real sure how much though, and it may be spring before we can drive up there.

(Hijack continued) We're keeping everyone out there in our thoughts and prayers and hoping you don't have too much damage. We had some flooding here the first week in August - 16-20 inches of rain in 3 days resulting in 97 homes destroyed and another 50 or so damaged in Waynesville, so we know what you're going through. (Hijack Ended)

 

Sorry Griff - BTW, when you gonna stop & shoot with us?

 

Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee

[Rio Brazos Kid]

Totally unsafe gun handling. Shooter needs tutoring on correct procedures at LT. For that matter LT Officer needs training for letting it happen in the first place. Needs to pick brass for a while.

 

Don't know that you could hang a DRY FIRING penalty on the shooter, as he wasn't aiming at anything but the berm. Had the gun fired, he would get a MDQ. Since it didn't fire, and he was only pointing at the berm when he pulled the trigger. I think a no call, but a warning not to let it happen again.

 

RBK

[Hawkshaw Fred SASS #36811]

"Totally unsafe gun handling. Shooter needs tutoring on correct procedures at LT. For that matter LT Officer needs training for letting it happen in the first place. Needs to pick brass for a while.

 

Don't know that you could hang a DRY FIRING penalty on the shooter, as he wasn't aiming at anything but the berm. Had the gun fired, he would get a MDQ. Since it didn't fire, and he was only pointing at the berm when he pulled the trigger. I think a no call, but a warning not to let it happen again."

 

 

 

I can't say I like the idea of someone doing this---and NO I have not looked up any reference to verify what has been posted already. I DO have a question: IF it is truly a NO CALL--WHAT do you warn him about not to let happen again? ( would seem that this borders on what some people have said about the recent costuming discussion---You didn't do anything against the rules--BUT DON'T LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN!)

PS:I ALSO agree that as LTO I would not check the revolver until the hammer was down.

[Steeldust Dan, SASS #2631Life]

Griff, thank you you for changing your font to a more readable style.

[Rio Brazos Kid]

The unsafe handling came into play when he just pulled the trigger and let the hammer drop.

 

I have seen numerous cases where a shooter was off one chamber when he/she lowered the hammer after loading a pistol. In such cases, just pulling the trigger and letting the hammer fall would cause an accidental discharge, and earn a MDQ.

 

In this case he got lucky, but needs to learn to lower hammer easy, so that if off a chamber, he won't get an accidental discharge. To do otherwise is simply poor and unsafe gun handling. Instructions not to do so are in order, as well as a warning of the consequences if the gun is accidentally fired at the loading table.

 

RBK

[Flying W Ramrod]

No call, done by just about every colt/clone shooter in the world. Wether they pull back and show the LTO then drop the hammer, or pull back, lower then show the LTO.

Dryfiring is not pulling the trigger to get the hammer to fall on an empty cylinder, if it was everyone who dropped the hammer on their rifle at the LT would be called for it

[Shooting Bull]

I'm not going to hazard a guess as to what this call or no-call would be BUT, I'm going to relay a philosophy from another shooting discipline. During me Steel Challenge days when we were done with our course of fire we were required to rack the slide and show the RSO an empty chamber, turn the gun to show an empty magazine well, then point the gun downrange and pull the trigger to drop the hammer. The theory behind it was that even though the chamber was already checked, pulling the trigger was an absolute, 100% final verification that the hammer was down on an empty chamber.

[Steeldust Dan, SASS #2631Life]

Philly, that's what we do with the 1911 in WBAS.

[Appalachian Alan]

While I do not like it, I believe I read here that you can bring your rifle to the loading table, close the lever and pull the trigger.

This is not much different.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

+1

[Grizzly Dave]

Guess I got this one wrong, thankfully pretty much all of the folks I've shot with carefully lower the hammers on both pistols and rifle. I've seen too many mis indexed pistols.

 

Of course the normal practice is to lower the hammer BEFORE the LTO checks it.

 

PWB for the sake of my education, had the shooter in this case pulled the trigger causing the hammer to fall before the LTO checked it, would it still be a no call?

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

+1

whig out about something else..... if you want the hammer down and unquestionably safe then keep it in a safe direction; pointed at a berm and PULL THE TRIGGER.

[Diamond S Doug]

This is one of those instant Karma things. Pointed in a safe direction pull the trigger and click, safe gun handling and guaranteed not to be on safety notch.. Pointed in a safe direction pull the trigger and bang MDQ. The gun makes the call for you.

[Roger Rapid]

Wow. I'm a bit surprised as some of these responses. I think dry-firing is careless gun handling anywhere. I don't like when folks do it in gun shops, at ranges, or at CAS events. And it really ticks me off if they do it in my home when I'm showing a gun. In my opinion it's a risky out-of-control gun-handling practice. If it is an expected process, as Philly Slim points out for Steel Challenge, then I can roll with it, but if I were the loading-table officer at a CAS event, I'd chew someone's head off if they dry fired under my watch - SASS rules aside. RR

[Ace_of_Hearts]

In reference to the original post.....

There is no penalty for pulling the trigger (although if I was standing next to him I would surely flinch)

 

There are two possible results from this action.

 

CLICK = Proceed as normal no penalty.

 

BANG = You get to keep score, pick brass, or spot for the rest of the Match.

And don't try and blame the LTO for saying it was OK.......

It's your own damn fault.

 

I even caution people at the Unloading table that pulling trigger is not the best choice of actions.

[Madd Mike #8595]

to prove your model 12 (shotgun) has an empty chamber and the internal hammer is already down

ya pull the trigger for the timer operator (in wild bunch)

 

 

oooops

wrong fourm

but a fact, needen sayin

[Wyatt]

No call, done by just about every colt/clone shooter in the world. Wether they pull back and show the LTO then drop the hammer, or pull back, lower then show the LTO.

Dryfiring is not pulling the trigger to get the hammer to fall on an empty cylinder, if it was everyone who dropped the hammer on their rifle at the LT would be called for it

 

+1

[Seldom Seen #16162]

Roger Rapid,

 

And if I was present I would chew yours right back.

 

Care to explain how you lower the hammer without pulling the trigger?

 

Or are you just not familiar with the correct loading procedure for the Colt SAA/clones?

[Roger Rapid]

SS... Thanks - and I'd chew right back to you. But in case you're not familiar with SAA (real or clone) pistols, here's how to release the hammer without "dry firing": 1) thumb on the hammer, 2) squeeze trigger, 3) let down hammer gently!

 

In my book, "dry firing" is squeezing the trigger without manually letting down the hammer - just like you're shooting it.

 

When I started shooting (in 1953), it was drummed into my head to "always treat a gun as if it were loaded." Letting the hammer free fall violates this important (to me) rule.

 

PS: I don't mean to be snippy, but I don't think my previous post called for a snippy response.

 

RR

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

to prove your model 12 (shotgun) has an empty chamber and the internal hammer is already down

ya pull the trigger for the timer operator (in wild bunch)

 

and how do ya get it 'already down'?

.

YA PULL THE TRIGGER AT THE LOADING TABLE

oooops

wrong fourm

but a fact, needen sayin

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

In my book, "dry firing" is squeezing the trigger without manually letting down the hammer - just like you're shooting it.

And you are 100% correct.

Dry FIRING is exactly that - pulling the trigger and allowing the hammer/ firing pin to fall unhindered into an empty chamber.

The only difference between dry fire and live fire is the presence of a round in the chamber.

 

And there is a world of difference between dropping a hammer at the END of a shooting string to verify a firearm as empty

and dropping a hammer at the loading table on a KNOWN loaded firearm in an effort to verify a chamber as empty.

 

Decocking by the manual and controlled lowering of the hammer is expected loading table behavior - decocking by pulling the trigger and allowing the hammer to drop unhindered is dry fire and unacceptable.

[Seldom Seen #16162]

"but if I were the loading-table officer at a CAS event, I'd chew someone's head off if they dry fired under my watch - SASS rules aside. RR"

 

 

 

SS... Thanks - and I'd chew right back to you. But in case you're not familiar with SAA (real or clone) pistols, here's how to release the hammer without "dry firing": 1) thumb on the hammer, 2) squeeze trigger, 3) let down hammer gently!

 

So you will decided the difference by how fast in your opinion the shooter lowers the hammer.

 

In my book, "dry firing" is squeezing the trigger without manually letting down the hammer - just like you're shooting it.

 

Empty chamber is empty regardless of how fast the hammer falls.

 

When I started shooting (in 1953), it was drummed into my head to "always treat a gun as if it were loaded." Letting the hammer free fall violates this important (to me) rule.

 

So what? Your opinion (or mine) does not mean anything. What is written in the rules does.

 

PS: I don't mean to be snippy, but I don't think my previous post called for a snippy response.

 

Your comment that "I'd chew someone's head off if they dry fired under my watch - SASS rules aside" is disrespectful, rude and just plain bullying. Your old age and quaint stories about what you were taught half a century ago does not give you an excuse for such behavior.

 

Now if you were to state I would discuss my concerns with the match officials that would be cowboy way.