Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 It ain't what it used to be. Gone are the conventional monohulled yachts, replaced by sleek catamarans with rigid sails that look like a jet wing. These AC72s can reach unprecedented speeds, rising out of the water to skim along on hydrofoils. America's Cup Stirs Controversy Captain Richard Brown (Commander of the America when she took the Cup from the Brits) would be appalled. Kinda like allowing AR's in Traditional Cowboy class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 I doubt it will save the sport. Just not fast or loud enough for today's generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 MO Power Faster Boats Younger women....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 MO Power Faster Boats Younger women....... And pyro! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 G'day Didn't the "Americas Cup" just happen at EoT ? (insert innocent expression here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 TELL US ABOUT IT...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 The defender defines the race. The fact that it was 12 meter yachts for so long was just because the cup stayed in Newport. As soon as the cup moved, the boats were changed.Other than that, I can't bite the hand that feeds me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G #1840 Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 I remember the big stink when the first catamarans showed up. Lets face it, sailing is not really a spectator sport. It happens too far away and the subtle trims and movements are lost to anyone but the entusiast who is right there watching on a spectator boat. It has always been the domain of the super rich and is even more so now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 I remember the big stink when the first catamarans showed up. Lets face it, sailing is not really a spectator sport. It happens too far away and the subtle trims and movements are lost to anyone but the entusiast who is right there watching on a spectator boat. It has always been the domain of the super rich and is even more so now. All professional sports are the domain of the super rich. Maybe they could call them sailboats instead of yachts. I don't have any yachting friends. When I hear "yacht", I think Trump or some arab prince. As you say, this one sure ain't one for spectators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 I'm sorry, but there was nothing so beautiful as the racing yachts of the 20s and 30s, with their broadway booms and great spreads of canvas. The racing multi-hulls today don't even have "sails." It's not yacht racing anymore. Why bother. Coffinmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Harley, #14153 Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 The Americas Cup is an interesting diversion for me every four years. I've caught it a few times on TV, and saw the setup earlier this summer when I was in San Francisco. I can't imagine attending the Cup in person though. There is no seat on shore, whether Newport or San Francisco, that would offer any interesting view. Television is the only way to make this exciting for me in any fashion. BTW, I think the new boats are pretty cool! They are the next technological evolution in offshore wind-powered racing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uno Mas SASS #80082 Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Hydrofoils and wing sails -- and foil borne at 41 - 42 knots (47 MPH) on Frisco Bay in about 15 - 20 knots of wind speed. Amazing stuff. This is to the old 12 Meters as a Yugo is to a F1 racer. http://proxy.storytellerhq.com/cache/37/df5c99740aeebf4aa9195593780adcea4ed3d9bd?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oracleteamusamedia.com%2Fdata_folio%2Fapi_sml%2F791%2FGG13-SFOAPR-06152%2A%2AX5QHm9ROAijE1367868617.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spooky Joe, SASS #24061 Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 I remember Briggs Cunningham's comment in the 60s when he quit America's Cup racing. He said he was going into something cheaper, like collecting Rembrandts. Have to agree the 12-meters were works of art and beautiful to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 Different animals altogether. Seems the New York Supreme Court got involved with a challenge by New Zealand to the original "Deed-of-Gift" back in the late '80's. The court agreed with the challenge, and stipulated that the boats to be sailed would be defined only by the details of the Deed, namely single masted yachts no more than 90 feet. So, with that, designers and "rich folk" set out to develop "boats" unlike anything the original authors could have ever imagined in a bad dream. Mind you, it's cool stuff, undoubtedly, but in my not-so-humble opinion there should have been a new race or even a separate class opened for them. But as it is, they've completely wiped out the traditional event. And there has always been ample room for "technological advancement" in the sport. Developments in materials, innovative design modifications that are a heck of a lot less radical than the beasts zooming about SF Bay (like the "winged keel" of the early '80's; or the drag-reducing laminar flow hull paints...) Sorry, but in my again sometimes not so humble opinion, the direction of this sport has taken a turn akin to putting gas-turbine engines in Indy cars (and maybe "straightaway lift" wings). The cool and fun thing about the America's Cup was that we ordinary weekend sailors could relate to the basic sloop designs, the tactics, heck, even the terminology. It may have been bigger and infinitely more expensive than ours, but we knew what it was and how it worked... and watching the race made us all want to dash out and hoist a sail. No more. It's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUSCON THE TERRIBLE SASS#47089 Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Go Team New Zealand!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Doggle Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Just curious, how long has it been since an American actually won the Americas Cup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 Three years ago ~ the last race. Twenty-nine wins since 1851, when America beat the Brits. Queen Victoria asked who was second... and was told "Ah, Your Majesty, there is no second." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 First loss ever was in 1983. Lost to the Kiwis three times and, believe it or not, the Swiss twice. Reckon they get a lot of sailing experience in them Alps... A bit if trivia... The original America changed hands multiple times in her life, during which she was a racing yacht, a Confederate blockade runner (scuttled and later re-floated), U. S. Naval Academy training ship, pleasure yacht... Ultimately her last owners bequeathed her to the Naval Academy, where she languished, ignored and neglected for over 20 years. She was damaged in a storm and finally scrapped and burned in 1945. Sad ending for a proud old vessel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 This is to the old 12 Meters as a Yugo is to a F1 racer. I think ya mean "as a F1 racer is to a Yugo." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 A boat's a boat the way I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 A boat's a boat the way I see it. Aaaaaarrrrr, ya sound like a landlubber Matey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Hmm.. really not much different from the controversies in our sport over "external enhancements" and such. If your aim is to compete using technology frozen in time, you need to write the rules that way. But if the rules allow innovation, expect change every time. Multihulls are my boats of choice, and I was thrilled when Dennis Connor brought catamarans to the Cup. But some folks screamed "Foul!", clinging to the technology of the prior century. If the rules allow for innovation, be prepared for the latest and the fastest to reign. Now, I'd also love to see re-creations of true yachts like Sir Thomas Lipton's Shamrock, racing under full sails; but the realities of commercial sponsorship mean that major innovative businesses, with the cash to spare for such entertainment, want to be associated with the newest, not with a by-gone era. Composite makers, electronics manufacturers, and other high tech sailing gear makers, who contribute much of the money for Cup racing sponsorships, want to be associated with boats that use their gear, not with wooden hulled behemoths of yesteryear. The days of wooden framed rackets at Wimbledon, wooden shaft golf clubs at St. Andrews, and normally aspirated engines at Indy are all in the past. LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Remember the Offenhausers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 Remember the Offenhausers? I do! Remember Parnelli Jones racing the 4-wheel drive STP-Paxton Turbocar in Indianapolis back in '67, I think? Woulda won if a transmission bearing hadn't failed toward the end. Car crashed the following year during trials; rules were modified to prohibit future jet-powered cars. Technology still progressed with the basic platform and piston-driven engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 Hey, Loophole! It took the court's involvement to bring about the multi-hulls. Danged lawyers! [and yes, said with a smile ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G #1840 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I saw a documentary last week about a sail race from Bermuda to Rode Island by the tall-ships of the various countries that maintain these training ships. Short List: Eagle, Gorch Fock, Danmark, Esmeralda. There were also ships from Russia, Poland, Norway, Britain, Chile and more. They all congregated again in NY harbor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 Another cool race you'll never see on the Wild World of Sports is the Transpac, from San Pedro to Honolulu. And I believe they have monohull and multi-hull classes. A buddy and I were invited aboard Windward Passage for drinks when she returned to the St Francis YC in San Francisco after winning the '71 race. Gorgeous vessel, but she was spartan. Creature comforts were a bare minimum; she was built for speed and only speed. Extremely cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Hey, Loophole! It took the court's involvement to bring about the multi-hulls. Danged lawyers! [and yes, said with a smile ] Yeah...same story every time. A couple of knuckleheads get into it, and can't resolve the fight - and despite everyone screaming how much they hate lawyers....they both go out and hire one. :wacko: I take what consolation there may be in the fact that lawyers DO often help resolve intractable problems; I consider that to be my job. As for the Cup, it was a shame that the gentlemen on both sides could not work out a solution that was best for the contest, rather than ending up relying upon a purely legal interpretation. That failure on their part was the motivating force behind the change in the essence of the races. If they are unhappy, they have no one to blame but themselves. LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 We're glad you're here, LL...! B'sides... I still have my little Cal 20 sloop and a big imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 We're glad you're here, LL...! B'sides... I still have my little Cal 20 sloop and a big imagination. Now, see, H-pan...a Cal 20 is part of the essence of real sailing. It's one of the "Everyman" boats, that guys like you and I can reasonably handle, can trailer to the water, and can enjoy with the spouse and kids. All without breaking the bank. I had a Catalina 22 for years - much the same. Mega-yachts are great fun to watch - but most of us know that we will never sail one. The recent emphasis in production boats on hulls at or above 30' excludes too many potential sailors from new boat ownership. If you want more folks to enjoy sailing, you need to give them a chance to own a boat they can afford. And imagination don't hurt, neither. LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted August 16, 2013 Author Share Posted August 16, 2013 It gets in the blood, LL.... 'Bout six years ago my son had just come home from Scout camp, where he'd earned his Small Boat Handling and Sailing merit badges. One evening, as we were about to leave for a Scout meeting (he was the Jr Assistant Scoutmaster at that time), he was prattling on about boats, and suddenly stopped. With a suddenly pensive and studious look on his face he said “Ya know, Dad, there’s some folks down the road a piece who have some sort of old sailing dinghy in the weeds near their fence. Now that I think of it, it’s been there for years! Hmm… I wonder what it is…” So, on the way to the meeting we stopped by. The Kid knocked on their door, and after a moment, it was opened by a small, grandmotherly woman who smiled at Ryan and simply asked, “Yes?” The young man removed his uniform cap and politely introduced himself, then stated his interest in the boat, noting that he’d seen it there since he was “little,” and asked if they might consider selling it. The lady looked Ryan up and down, studied him seriously for a moment, then with a grin said “Young man… my husband was a Scoutmaster many years ago. If you’d like it, you may HAVE the boat!” and then went to wake the gentleman from his nap and advise him that he was now boatless. Couple of days later, the Kid and a buddy dragged a very sad Coronado 15 and her trailer out of the weeds and the half-mile home on rotted and flatted tires. It was a mess! Evidently it had been sitting neglected for 22 years! But over the next year, he worked diligently on trailer and boat... fortunately, the daggerboard and rudder had been stored indoors, along with the sails. He fabricated replacements for the other wooden parts and by the following summer the derelict was fairly sparkling... he and his buddy were all over Millerton Lake in the thing. One day on the way home from the lake he dropped in on the gentleman who'd given him the boat. The old fella fairly popped his buttons to see her looking as nice as she did again and was plumb tickled to know she'd been back on the water. I ran into the local Sea Scout skipper that summer, and he commented that he'd seen Ryan and Travis on the lake. "Thought it was MY boat with a couple of my Sea Scouts at first - but then I knew it wasn't, 'cuz these boys knew what they were doing!" And he's determined to take his binoculars and head to the Bay Area next month to catch at least a distant glimpse of the race. He has a bigger imagination than his old man. Sassparilla the Sailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el Gato Gordo - SASS #15162 Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 The latest foil/wing cats sure don't resemble the 12 meters like Intrepid & Weatherly, nor the J-Boats of the 20's & 30's, but they, too, were a far cry from the schooner "America." I think Captain Brown would be excited by the developments in sail power in the last 50 years! That said, I raced Hobie Cats for many years, but when I went cruising off shore, I wanted a boat that would right itself after a knockdown ~ a medium displacement monohull! Buena suerte, amigos, & fair winds! eGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uno Mas SASS #80082 Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 How'z 'bout that! After being down 8 - 1, Oracle comes back and wups the Kiwis 8 - 9! They "got boatspeeded to death." The US' massive foiling catamaran was 4 - 5 knots (10%) faster than New Zealander's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Yeah...same story every time. A couple of knuckleheads get into it, and can't resolve the fight - and despite everyone screaming how much they hate lawyers....they both go out and hire one. :wacko: That's what rich people usually do. And it's a safe bet company funds were used at the expense of stockholders to wage a personal battle unrelated to the companies' business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Mushman Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Remember the Offenhausers? Yes. Greatly repsonsible for my love of motorsports. Much more individual character in the competing designs back then, translated into performance, sights, souinds and smells at the track! I love that "character". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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