irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 The fact that we are close to issuing the 100000 badge doesn't mean we have that many shooters. And SASS won't say what the active membership is. Just my opinion on the 10 year sunset. But we are an organization made up of the older generation. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Bro King...Like it or not, this game is a bunch of Old Farts, and it is the Old Farts who will determine the future. So, it is no surprise that the Kids "Dominate" the winner's circle... . just about any kid can kick a Old Farts Butt! That is nothing news. The real factor here is who truly "Dominates" the game... not just the winner's circle..... THE GAME. If the Old Farts stepped aside right now, there would not be enough Kids to make this thing run for 30 min. This thread is not a bunch of Old Farts looking the wrong way... it is a bunch of Old Farts taking a look at what is going on, and providing some thought as what it is going to take to keep the Game going... Like it or not... the Kids can not and WILL not be the factor that keeps things going at this point. This is not a defeatist attitude... it is a realist attitude. I want this game to continue as long as possible. If we, the Old Farts can keep it going, then by the time the Kids become simi-Old Farts, they might have a chance at keeping the ball rolling. I promote what I believe it is going to take for that to happen... which is to support your local clubs. It is the ground level where every member has direct input and influence. Respectfully submitted Snakebite We'll probably have to agree to disagree because I think if I agreed with you then we'd both be wrong. "Old farts" is the main problem in SASS not its savior. Here is why I say that: Look at all the fine shooters that started on SASS: Randi Rogers; Jesse Duff; Spence Hoglund; Parker (Cobra Cat) and Gordon (RIP)Lightnin Cat; again I could go on and on...what are they doing? Well, they have to go seek sponsorships elsewhere on shooting sports if they want to apply their skills and education. Because after Badlands Bud or Lead Dispencer graduate like Holy Terror the money just isn't in SASS...it's in IPSC or IDPA or Sporting clays (NSCA). These kids go on as adults to then DOMINATE those sports both Nationally and Internationally. All the while the leaders of SASS have refused to even acknowledge or promote their accomplishments. Therefore, they go elsewhere. Who wouldn't? The biggest publicity we have seen happened this week in the Wall Street Journal. Tip o' the hat to Misty Moonshine for making that happen- it's part of the SLOOOOOWWWWWWLY changing attitude at SASS HQ. The future rightfully belongs to them young 'uns! It's up to us to pave the way, not continue to throw up roadblocks up their success. Look around! Since when does the future belong to Old Farts? Rather, in SASS, members proclaim "there's no money in it!" As if they are proud to have sewn the seeds of their own demise. And our young people aren't stupid or disloyal, they just won't stay long when the Old Farts continually prevent them from prospering from what they have learned, practiced and succeeded in accomplishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Solo Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 My visit to the IPSC match drove home something to me last night I didn't mention in my last post. SASS has a secret weapon that we often overlook-- women. The IPSC match was almost exclusively male. We have lots and lots of women shooting at all the SASS matches I attend. Husbands and wives seem to be the order of the day around here. With women come families with families come the Holy Terrors, Sage Chicks, RattleSnake Wranglers and Missouri Lefties that have blessed our sport. AS for our young shooters leaving SASS, remember the money in the shooting sports comes from the gun manufacturers who want to sell product. Guys dressed in NASCAR style shirts sell gun manufacturers products. Better yet comely young women in those same form fitting NASCAR style shirts sell manufacturers products. They pour money into the big shooting events so guys like Wolf Bane and the rest can have an excuse to advertize production guns. I am not so sure we are losing members to USPCA, IDPC or any of the other alphabet soup shooting groups centered on production guns. Except for events featuring the big names sponsored by manufacturers those groups don't seem to be doing any better than SASS. I am not so sure all the young shooters leave SASS. Many do other things, but still shoot in our sport. Finally notice where the manufacturers are going to find young new shooter talent, especially young women shooters--SASS. I don't think we need to beat ourselves up just yet. We need to identify what we are doing right and do it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 BUBBA Bart... Bubba, Bubba oh Bubba..... really? You think the reason they support and sponsor is because they wear printed shirts? Seriously? The manufacturers come to SASS because SASS shooters are kicking everyone's ass. It's time to do some serious beating ourselves up... waking up... hittin' the frickin' mules about the head, neck and shoulders around h'year! Y'hear? SASS is the largest active shooting participant demographic in shooting sports. It's larger now than ATA! Not just in members.... in active members! It's larger than IDPA and IPSC combined. Seen a SASS TV show lately? Come on.... get a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Solo Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 BUBBA Bart... Bubba, Bubba oh Bubba..... really? You think the reason they support and sponsor is because they wear printed shirts? Seriously? The manufacturers come to SASS because SASS shooters are kicking everyone's ass. It's time to do some serious beating ourselves up... waking up... hittin' the frickin' mules about the head, neck and shoulders around h'year! Y'hear? SASS is the largest active shooting participant demographic in shooting sports. It's larger now than ATA! Not just in members.... in active members! It's larger than IDPA and IPSC combined. Seen a SASS TV show lately? Come on.... get a clue. Sure the gun manufacturers are supporting shooting sports promoting the production guns they want to sell the most and their ads often feature pretty girls in form fitting NASCAR style shirts. Sex sells. It always has and always will. That said, I agree with pretty much everything else you said, except I am tired of us beating ourselves up for no good reason at all. We need to recognize that we are doing a lot of things right. We need to do more of it. No, I haven't seen a SASS tv show lately, but I haven't seen a USPCA league television series either. Watching Shooting USA which often features the big name matches is like watching one long infomercial. Shooting Gallery is better but even it is almost wall to wall product placement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monco Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 My personal view: I am 47 years old now and had no clue what CAS or SASS was at 45......until I happened across a YouTube video posted by Lead Dispencer of Lead Dispencer. That single video was my inspiration and was all that I needed to see to begin my quest. Although I have watched my share of TV westerns from yesteryear and seen a few western movies along the way (I've watched FAR more since becoming involved with CAS and have since become one of my favorite genres), I was not raised in a cowboy atmosphere and am not what I would call anything remotely close to a "Cowboy" now. I did however have a very firearms friendly upbringing. Take from that what you will. One thing though, before people will search the internet for all things positive regarding firearms, probably the best thing we can do for future generations with regard to sustainability of all shooting sports is to somehow avoid the demonizing firearms by parents, schools, media, and those that believe that "Rainbowland" can exist in this universe by placing blame on the inanimate objects rather than the character of those holding them when adversity strikes. I'm pretty sure I'll get little argument here on that one. I don't have any kids but I did marry into a couple semi grown kids. One day I hope to positively affect their kids with regards to firearms and shooting sports, etc. and not to become a professional shooter, but to enjoy many of the benefits that come along with a great activity. Very few seats for pro shooters....there are only so many gun manufacturers. Edit: Oh....better add something more on topic, There are 6 plus clubs within a 2.5 hour drive of my residence all with reasonable attendance. Some draw more than others regularly All in all, I would say it has been fairly consistent since I have started shooting. I like all of the the clubs for different reasons and dislike none of them. There is plenty of opportunity for me to shoot monthlies and each club's annual event within a 1 hour drive. Like I said before, there is a lot competing for time these days so it is tough to attend them all regularly. I at least try to attend the two closest clubs as a priority & have to put aside events that take place during the weekdays.....one has to work & vacation time seems difficult to come by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 CAS is probably one of the more expensive shooting sports around what with 4 guns plus spares, leather, clothing, travel, etc. Now with the introduction of short stroke kits that cost as much as a pistol, we are pricing out new shooters. Maybe it's time to really consider a "stock" class for entry level or not so serious competitors. Don't tell me how much it costs to golf or boat or whatever. We're talking about CAS. Flame on. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oklahomabound Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 ...given our aging demographic; me being one of them thar folks, health seems to take its toll--that being knocked down for awhile; takes time to come back. Back surgery has been my problem--came back; now have massively herniated 2 more disks... aging ain't for the wimps... ...Ms. Mary Matilda--going to have knee replacement surgery at the end of this month... but we'll be back... ...may not be shooting 3 to 4 matches a month, but we'll be shooting at least one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 SASS is the largest active shooting participant demographic in shooting sports. It's larger now than ATA! Not just in members.... in active members! It's larger than IDPA and IPSC combined. I read or hear this from time to time; is it really true? My home club has an IDPA chapter that draws more shooters than our cowboy matches. There are other clubs in my area that offer IDPA or USPSA; they don't seem to be hurting at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I read or hear this from time to time; is it really true? My home club has an IDPA chapter that draws more shooters than our cowboy matches. There are other clubs in my area that offer IDPA or USPSA; they don't seem to be hurting at all. Maybe it's not the shooting discipline, but rather the quality of those running the club...? There are other variables here. Cheers!!! Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruff Cobb Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 One more factor to consider on attracting youngsters, or not. The popularity of interactive video games. I don't follow at all but everything I've seen my grandkids playing certainaly isn't Western. They learn young & behind computers. If they aren't introduced by parents CAS isn't on their screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 One more factor to consider on attracting youngsters, or not. The popularity of interactive video games. I don't follow at all but everything I've seen my grandkids playing certainaly isn't Western. They learn young & behind computers. If they aren't introduced by parents CAS isn't on their screen. video games, smart phones, ipads, and the list goes on with the electronic gizmos parents provide their kids to keep them entertained and out of their hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Solo Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 No kid can walk into this game unless sponsored by parents or grandparents. Don't blame the kids. Hook the moms and the kids will follow. That is something we can do. That is something that must be a real struggle for the practical pistol shooting community. As to expensive guns, think about the shotgun sports. I know guys who have tens of thousands in Italian shotguns that are only good for one sport. Trap, skeet and sporting clays continue to be very popular. By the way all three attract female competitors. Two of my sons started as kids on their high school teams. That is how they learned gun safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 CAS is probably one of the more expensive shooting sports around what with 4 guns plus spares, leather, clothing, travel, etc. Now with the introduction of short stroke kits that cost as much as a pistol, we are pricing out new shooters. Maybe it's time to really consider a "stock" class for entry level or not so serious competitors. Don't tell me how much it costs to golf or boat or whatever. We're talking about CAS. Flame on. Fillmore Filmore... I know that you don't want to hear it... but have you checked lately just how much it will cost you in the long run if your Short Stroke your Putter????? sb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I don't believe CAS or SASS is diseased, sickly or dying. Attendance at our local clubs has stayed the same or grown. Our annual match has gotten bigger every year as have most around here. Sure we have lost a bunch of good pards due to aging, infirmaments, burn-out and/or a lack of interest. However, we keep getting replacements. Some are young and some are old, just like the makeup of the rest of the CAS shooters. New blood, new excitement and new energy. We ARE ok. Brother King, You say we have the most active participant of any shooting sport, yet also argue we need to change the formula? I think we are the biggest because we have the best and friendliest people. Why do we have the best people? Because there are no money prizes and no sponsors. This fact keeps it friendly and fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 No kid can walk into this game unless they are sponsored by their parents or grandparents. Don't blame the kids. Hook the moms and the kids will follow. That is something we can do. That is something IPSA must struggle with. Yer right pard... I think that my earlier post might have left a poor impression with some... I'm in no way saying that we should not do our best to encourage the young folks.. but this game is not such that young folks can play it without virtually total support from the Older generation. Heck... in most places you can't even buy a handgun until you are 21. We all know that youngsters have a multitude of their own generational interest that they want to be doing with their peers. I have 7 Grandchildren... all of them that are old enough, hunt and shoot, one of my granddaughters shot her first bear at age 12, as did her brother. Yep... given the opportunity, they will all shoot the "Cowboy" guns. But the FACT is, they spend most of their free time playing on ball teams, out riding the dirt on their motorcycles (girls too), raising their 4H animals, 3 of them are paying for and attending College and working part time etc, etc, etc. They have a grandpa that is into CAS more than most, and has stayed the course with it... but they are not our future at this point in time. Providing the exposure is the first step... I've NEVER seen a kid come out who was allowed to shoot the guns and such that did not LOVE IT! But it is not something that most of them can follow up on. When they get done with school, get a job, get themselves started in life, THEN, they might find the time and the money to play the game. How many of us could have done it when we were their age? Not many. What I tried to say in my earlier post was that it is up to us... the "Old Farts" to keep this game going until those younger folks who have had the exposure are willing and able to pull the wagon. But if anyone thinks that they can pull it now, then I would suggest that they take a realistic look at it. "Old Farts" pretty much do what they want to do... if you want their support, then you have little choice other than to give them what they want... and without their support, the wagon ain't going anywhere. Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 All three of my now adult boys tried CAS. My oldest was the only one to go out and buy guns for his wife and himself. They shot for a period of time then fell out for various reasons. He even became obsessed with "World of Warcraft" more than shooting. I think it may be the connection that our generation had with the American Western. Heck, at 58 years old, I pretty much missed out on that genre except for later John Wayne movies. The primary reason I got into this sport was to expand my gun business in the 90's. If it weren't for that, I might have never gotten into CAS. Of course now, I can't get out! With more of "our" generation dropping out than are being replaced, I think our sport will eventually go the way of Metallic Silhouette Shooting. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I don't believe CAS or SASS is diseased, sickly or dying. Attendance at our local clubs has stayed the same or grown. Our annual match has gotten bigger every year as have most around here. Sure we have lost a bunch of good pards due to aging, infirmaments, burn-out and/or a lack of interest. However, we keep getting replacements. Some are young and some are old, just like the makeup of the rest of the CAS shooters. New blood, new excitement and new energy. We ARE ok. Brother King, You say we have the most active participant of any shooting sport, yet also argue we need to change the formula? I think we are the biggest because we have the best and friendliest people. Why do we have the best people? Because there are no money prizes and no sponsors. This fact keeps it friendly and fun. I think that you missed my point. Our young shooters have to go shoot something else. The truth is that SASS isn't making any money. So much of our infrastructure is aged and won't continue on the path that it's on. Please don't make the mistake that others make and ASS U ME that just because something worked in the past means that it will work in the future. Remember the slide rule? How about the super computer? If you want this sport to remain healthy then at some point there MUST be money in the deal. Look how literally ALL of the other shooting sports have sanction fees and complete rule books as well as systematic RO/SO training with range advancement, etc. etc. etc. Then, look at how youngsters have to leave SASS and cowboy shooting in order to shoot other disciplines, smaller in participants in order to continue on their careers. Don't make the mistake of confusing brains with a bull market. Sure, this sport grew but many of the pains that folks point to now only serve to prove that like many things the timing was right...THEN....what will happen to keep it growing when on the one hand you say (rightfully) that young people aren't coming into it droves and then on the other you allow the ones who are champions to go off to other disciplines or give it up for other careers? That's the travesty in my view. And it won't be cured by a bunch of Old Farts who are too afraid of money to figure out a way. SInce when is money Un-American? Get a grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Bro King.. Please don't take this as an attack... I'm doing my best to grasp your comments rather than just move on. I don't believe that there are very many folks in this game that want to see it become a "Career" or a source of income. There MIGHT be a few, very few, who would or could make this into a money making proposition for a short time, if it were to go that direction... But it is not and will not go that way... Why... because that is not the direction that the membership wants the GAME to go. They are here in part because this is not a game for the "Professional". Yes.. I do understand that there are a few Pros among us.. and they certainly do shine among all of us Flunky "Old Farts". However.. the money to be made seems to come from selling their wares or their talent in attempting to teach us "Old Farts" how to shoot. I don't believe the list of folks that actually make a living using their shooting skills is very long.. and even if SASS were to go in that direction, there would still not be many... and in fact.. there would be NONE... because it would kill the GAME. Why hasn't Western 3 Gun made careers for some of these Hot Dog shooters? It seems to me that would be the place to promote your ideas... it would be right up their ally. I don't know of anyone that is making a living at W3G. Again... I am NOT trying to be argumentative, I want this game to flourish and prosper and to last, and to stay a friendly gathering of "Just Plain Folks". The last thing I want to see is for the atmosphere at our CAS matches become as HEAVY as it is at a Full Blown IPSC match. That is my opinion, and I believe that the vast majority of those who play this game feel the same way. Sure we want new blood to join us, and sure we need to look at ways to help bring them in... but in the mean time it is up to us "Old Farts" to keep the boat afloat, and that starts at the local level. I think that SASS is actually making some headway right now. Part of that is due to some much needed changes in the way things are administered. It looks like some savy business decisions are being made. But remember... SASS is the Business, and CAS is the GAME. We members have very little direct control over the business, but we have virtually total control over the GAME... if we choose to exercise that control. I certainly support SASS and encourage everyone to do the same.. one of the best ways to do that is to support the GAME, and that starts at the local level by keeping our clubs strong. Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Do you really think playing for money will make this sport less expensive? Only for an elite few. For the rest the cost will go up and the friendliness will go down. CAS shooters are very free and easy with their knowledge now, but I don't think many would as freely share with their rivals if it'll cost them money. It sure as heck won't help the equipment race either! Ask yourself this, why aren't the money games more popular than CAS? I'm younger than you, so not all of us against playing for money are "old farts". I don't think money is in-American. AND I think I have a damn good grip. I like and respect you, Brother King. My reply to you was not impolite, so how about returning a little respect. You believe one way and I believe another so lets not bring the un-American, get a grip crap. I imagine we are both right to some extent. Thanks, Possum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 The fact that we are close to issuing the 100000 badge doesn't mean we have that many shooters. And SASS won't say what the active membership is. Just my opinion on the 10 year sunset. But we are an organization made up of the older generation. Ike I look at how many cc's they print, that would indicate active members (somewhat) not shooters but it is a start when I started with SASS #8595 (year 1997):: stampede was a local annual shoot producing upwards of 300 +- shooters, they were doing something right for the folks, I met and shot with the like of Bounty Hunter and many others, many of those great shooters are no longer with us, "may god continue to bless their souls" things always go up and down, for many reasons but like already said, its the older folks that seem to carry a lot of the water (shooting fees, etc) I hope SASS goes on and on just like the little bunny on tv do what you can to introduce new folks to the game every chance that you get that is the real deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 This is a discussion and I have thick skin... glad to take my opinions out for a walk in the daylight just to see if the sun will shine on them. Long way of saying that you can't offend me until you call me names. Here's the deal: You can't have it both ways...IMNSHO... On the one hand you're saying that on the local level shoots are beginning to decline in number of shooters. At the same time you're saying that it's becoming difficult to impossible to attract young people into the game. And on the other hand you're saying that we can attract them by .....what? ... advertising? Marketing? Free bullets? more targets? movie tickets? Malcolm Forbes (RIP) had a home in Jackson Hole when I lived there and his bodyguard was a friend of mine so I got to attend a couple of bar b ques. I heard him say once that MONEY ....is the great facilitator of all things.... good and bad.... but that MONEY doesn't care....we do. Yes, they're all games. So is PRO football.... it's nothing but a game. There are those who think that amateur FB is better than pro... OK... and others that argue the other way... and those that say that even college level is a pro-sport but that the players are paid differently...same with the Olympics. I don't have an opinion. But, no matter how you slice it; Money makes it happen...even if that's grandpa supplying the guns, components and gas to get to a shoot. To argue otherwise is delusional. As to W3G... I have no dog in that fight nor do I know how it was funded. But, I do know that you can't explain the lack of publicity and opportunity in SASS vs. all other shooting disciplines any other way. Do you really think playing for money will make this sport less expensive? Only for an elite few. For the rest the cost will go up and the friendliness will go down. CAS shooters are very free and easy with their knowledge now, but I don't think many would as freely share with their rivals if it'll cost them money. It sure as heck won't help the equipment race either!Ask yourself this, why aren't the money games more popular than CAS?I'm younger than you, so not all of us against playing for money are "old farts". I don't think money is in-American. AND I think I have a damn good grip.I like and respect you, Brother King. My reply to you was not impolite, so how about returning a little respect. You believe one way and I believe another so lets not bring the un-American, get a grip crap. I imagine we are both right to some extent.Thanks,Possum Didn't mean any offense.. sorry if I hurt your feelings. Only meant to say that the argument for or against money has nothing to do with the enjoyment of anything. We determine that ourselves. I'm sure that I should have been more diplomatic. Didn't mean it personally... just faster fingers than brains....give me the "P". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal #64218 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Brother King, SASS is a rapidly declining shooting sport!! 3gun Nation and other 3gun sports are growing by leaps and bounds and is MUCH bigger than SASS! Why? Because those organizations understand the shooters are the most important part of the sport! SASS has yet to figure that out. And with all they hassle SASS has caused with Founder's Ranch, it will continue to. Working in the firearms industry, I see a lot of growth in other shooting sports and a rapid decline in the growth of SASS. Respectfully, BD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runamuck, SASS #49216L Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Bro King.. Please don't take this as an attack... I'm doing my best to grasp your comments rather than just move on. I don't believe that there are very many folks in this game that want to see it become a "Career" or a source of income. There MIGHT be a few, very few, who would or could make this into a money making proposition for a short time, if it were to go that direction... But it is not and will not go that way... Why... because that is not the direction that the membership wants the GAME to go. They are here in part because this is not a game for the "Professional". Yes.. I do understand that there are a few Pros among us.. and they certainly do shine among all of us Flunky "Old Farts". However.. the money to be made seems to come from selling their wares or their talent in attempting to teach us "Old Farts" how to shoot. I don't believe the list of folks that actually make a living using their shooting skills is very long.. and even if SASS were to go in that direction, there would still not be many... and in fact.. there would be NONE... because it would kill the GAME. Why hasn't Western 3 Gun made careers for some of these Hot Dog shooters? It seems to me that would be the place to promote your ideas... it would be right up their ally. I don't know of anyone that is making a living at W3G. Again... I am NOT trying to be argumentative, I want this game to flourish and prosper and to last, and to stay a friendly gathering of "Just Plain Folks". The last thing I want to see is for the atmosphere at our CAS matches become as HEAVY as it is at a Full Blown IPSC match. That is my opinion, and I believe that the vast majority of those who play this game feel the same way. Sure we want new blood to join us, and sure we need to look at ways to help bring them in... but in the mean time it is up to us "Old Farts" to keep the boat afloat, and that starts at the local level. I think that SASS is actually making some headway right now. Part of that is due to some much needed changes in the way things are administered. It looks like some savy business decisions are being made. But remember... SASS is the Business, and CAS is the GAME. We members have very little direct control over the business, but we have virtually total control over the GAME... if we choose to exercise that control. I certainly support SASS and encourage everyone to do the same.. one of the best ways to do that is to support the GAME, and that starts at the local level by keeping our clubs strong. Snakebite Well said Snake, I'm in total agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Solo Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Brother King, SASS is a rapidly declining shooting sport!! 3gun Nation and other 3gun sports are growing by leaps and bounds and is MUCH bigger than SASS! Why? Because those organizations understand the shooters are the most important part of the sport! SASS has yet to figure that out. And with all they hassle SASS has caused with Founder's Ranch, it will continue to. Working in the firearms industry, I see a lot of growth in other shooting sports and a rapid decline in the growth of SASS. Respectfully, BD Where do you come up with either of the "factual" statements you just made? I have seen no evidence that SASS is a rapidly declining shooting sport, nor have I seen any sign that 3gun is growing by leaps and bounds. Of course, 3gun starts from ground zero. If it doubles from 100 to 200 you can say it is growing by leaps and bounds, but you are still just 200. There are some successful manufacturer sponsored big matches, but get away from the manufacturer sponsored events, what do you have? I want evidence, not just the marketing nonsense we get from our shooting sports television shows and magazines. Remember the shooting media and manufacturers are all about selling guns that spend their existence is a gun safe or closet someplace. Think I am kidding just watch the shooting shows. Nearly all of the pros are employees of manufacturers and they mostly shoot the production categories. Why? Because the pros work for manufacturers who make their money selling production guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Brother King, SASS is a rapidly declining shooting sport!! 3gun Nation and other 3gun sports are growing by leaps and bounds and is MUCH bigger than SASS! Why? Because those organizations understand the shooters are the most important part of the sport! SASS has yet to figure that out. And with all they hassle SASS has caused with Founder's Ranch, it will continue to. Working in the firearms industry, I see a lot of growth in other shooting sports and a rapid decline in the growth of SASS. Respectfully, BD It's really important to avoid getting mesmerized by the numbers. If I told you that the 0 participants was now 100 you'd have spectacular growth, right? Many who bought the black guns are now wanting to shoot them! Me included.... it's fun.... and way, way, way more expensive. That won't stop those who want to play. But to say that SASS is rapidly declining would be an exaggeration... except in your neighborhood starting with you....so that's one down. But the decline is 99,000 minus 1. Not spectacular... but significant for sure. Admit it ... you're spending a lot more shooting 3 gun.. you're more involved in 3 gun and it's natural to see it that way especially when suddenly all your buddies have their new lycra shirts and 3 black guns! LOL... I know 'cuz I have a couple.. not making fun. It's just how it goes. I remember when I went to shoot sporting from trap and the old buddies acted like I was cheating on them. The truth was that I was just tired of trying to get my ADHD brain to shoot 200 straight! It's all fun with guns. Let's not forget that... if we got all those who bought black guns to the range this would be a better world for all gun owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Brother King, SASS is a rapidly declining shooting sport!! 3gun Nation and other 3gun sports are growing by leaps and bounds and is MUCH bigger than SASS! Why? Because those organizations understand the shooters are the most important part of the sport! SASS has yet to figure that out. And with all they hassle SASS has caused with Founder's Ranch, it will continue to. Working in the firearms industry, I see a lot of growth in other shooting sports and a rapid decline in the growth of SASS. Respectfully, BD we can agree to disagree other shooting sports may be growing faster because it more like the movies and video games these days (black guns per say) not like past western movies, dress, and equipment not many video games of that stuff, and they would not work well either, in my opinion that is my story and I am sticken to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 It's really important to avoid getting mesmerized by the numbers. It's all fun with guns. Let's not forget that... if we got all those who bought black guns to the range this would be a better world for all gun owners. yup like I said, back around the year 97, sass members about 8595, a local vegas annual shoot hosted more than 300 shooters just sayin however money does play a part, since I lost a majority of my good income with our robust economy, I shoot and travel less so of course money plays into the whole deal a tadd bit simple as that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal #64218 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Factual numbers? Easy! Look at EOT numbers for the last five years. They have dropped considerably every year. Then look at 3 Gun matches. They sell out months in advance and have a waiting list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 uhhhh..... EOT was up a lot this year..... so was WR....so was CAC.... hmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Solo Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Factual numbers? Easy! Look at EOT numbers for the last five years. They have dropped considerably every year. Then look at 3 Gun matches. They sell out months in advance and have a waiting list. EOT changed locations. It has taken awhile but from what I am told, this year the numbers were up. I notice you didn't mention Winter Range. I didn't say the big 3 gun matches weren't doing well. They have corporate sponsors and pretty near the entire shooting press providing publicity. How are the local 3 gun clubs doing? Pull the corporate money and 3 gun dries up. It might appeal to some but 3 gun lacks the inherent charm of SASS. I have told all my friends that I am a cowboy shooter and they have all approved. They ask me all kinds of positive quesitons. They want to know how I did in my last match. Sorry, but in most of America, even red state America, the common perception is cowboy shooters are a fun bunch, but blackrifles and their owners are a little scary. Anyway, a few might have left CAS for 3 gun, but I don't think one is a threat to the other. Nothing says you can't do both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bristol Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I am just getting into CAS. The reason I am is I watched a couple matches and it looked like fun and the people were friendly. When I just went to a shooting range I found myself getting bored at just shooting the paper target and most people there don't even talk to each other. I think what CAS needs is more good media attention. I didn't even know it existed until I found it by accident online one day. I am a little nervous about shooting a match though. I would love to go to a instructional session but the only Club close by is not doing anything until they get things straightened out with a new range. Maybe some clubs can advertise a free session to get new people. I will never be good enough to be a top shooter so monetary prizes would mean nothing to me. I am into it for the fun and friendship. Nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tumbleweed tess Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 As an outsider looking in I can see a steady decline in shooters in most parts of the country,yes some of the bigger matches draw larger numbers ,that is due to many smaller clubs folding . SASS has grown and peaked and now is on a decline .When I attend the large events it is startling to see so many seniors in the ranks of shooters.SASS is now dominated by very young shooters that alone is a problem they have no money and as they mature school and relationships start to consume their lives.Vendors are declining and the major firearms manufacturers are moving away from the sport. I work for one of these companies and this is what we are seeing. I hope this helps and I do hope SASS survives. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 And just how can you make such a statement about 'most parts of the country?' Do you monitor every clubs websites and compare shooter numbers in published scores? And if so, why? Dead horse here folks, was the last twelve times it came up in the last year too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Why fight the trend. Get out now! Or, more pro-actively, send out a questionaire polling ALL past shooters why they either still/no longr compete. But, before you do that... apply for a gov't grant to study the situation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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