Doc Coles SASS 1188 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I have a chicom 1897 that I sent off to be tuned for WB with a top rated smith. I shot it in a few matches and it ran great. Then, in the middle of a match, it suddenly wouldn't open up. I sent it back to the smith and he tells me that carrier lock bar was bent. In explaining the repair he wrote: "when operating a 97 shotgun do not pull back hard on the pump slide this will but undue pressure on the same part that failed and it can fail again." I have owned a number of original 1897s over the years and never had a problem from "pulling back hard on the pump slide". In fact, the general consensus is that you need to beat them like a rented mule to get them to operate reliably. Whats the deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Walt. 92206 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Not that I am any good with a 97, but I have always been told to run them like they are stolen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I have a chicom 1897 that I sent off to be tuned for WB with a top rated smith. I shot it in a few matches and it ran great. Then, in the middle of a match, it suddenly wouldn't open up. I sent it back to the smith and he tells me that carrier lock bar was bent. In explaining the repair he wrote: "when operating a 97 shotgun do not pull back hard on the pump slide this will but undue pressure on the same part that failed and it can fail again." I have owned a number of original 1897s over the years and never had a problem from "pulling back hard on the pump slide". In fact, the general consensus is that you need to beat them like a rented mule to get them to operate reliably. Whats the deal? I can honestly say that I've NEVER heard this before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Train Robber 13659 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I would suggest that any gun that needs to be operated like you stole it needs to be properly tuned and an individual that operates a gun that way needs some tuning themselves :-) Train Robber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackrabbit Joe #414 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Hello there Doc Coles: Just about three weeks ago I was firing up my 97 Winchester at a monthly match and low and behold it locked up tighter then a popsicle on a drum stick. Mercy! Could not figure how to get it open and when at home finally that eveving I took the barrel off and struck the front of the receiver down on the patio and lo an behold it finally opened. Now this is what did happen:The slide lock spring is held on by a small screw called Action Slide Lock Screw. Over the years I guess it strained and the threads worn some and loosened up causing the screw to come out and jammed it shut. The fix I did to this and is holding was using some lock tight and I also used some very very fine wire and screwed it in. Sounds mediocre but believe me it solved the problem. I will be having it tapped and re- threaded with new screw very soon. My 97 winchester gets used and I certainly don't baby it at all. Never heard of babying one of them and have been using them for quite a few years. I also have another available as a back=up. Hope you get it taken care of.: Jackrabbit #414 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 JMB never designed a gun that you had to baby. Remember, that the '97 was a military issue weapon. In fact, many of JMB's/Winchester made guns, must be run with 'vigor', to cycle well. Sounds like a border line timing issue is at play with yours. Bet you had no issues, till it was 'worked-over'. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mink Shoals Bandit, #49388 Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 Could be the key word in your post is "Chicom 1897".............Been there, done that with similar results Mink............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 I have a chicom 1897 that I sent off to be tuned for WB with a top rated smith. I shot it in a few matches and it ran great. Then, in the middle of a match, it suddenly wouldn't open up. I sent it back to the smith and he tells me that carrier lock bar was bent. In explaining the repair he wrote: "when operating a 97 shotgun do not pull back hard on the pump slide this will but undue pressure on the same part that failed and it can fail again." I have owned a number of original 1897s over the years and never had a problem from "pulling back hard on the pump slide". In fact, the general consensus is that you need to beat them like a rented mule to get them to operate reliably. Whats the deal? Sounds like bs or burma shave to me. A competition gun CAN'T be expected to be run any way BUT fast and furiously (to coin a phrase). Tough to say without seeing the gun why this happened, except that this sounds pretty off-the-wall and essentially is "non-communication." I guess that's the nicest thing I can say about THAT and stay out of a large arguement here on the Wire. Moving on from that, I will say, however, that I think it it would be in your best interests if you could get your hands on an original Win97 with an uncut barrel ... that is, one that hasn't been used in CAS previously and then invest a little into turning it into your match shotgun. You pretty much have THAT much invested in ONE of your revolvers. A real Win97 is literally a mechanical work of art. Cat Brules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 I would suggest that any gun that needs to be operated like you stole it needs to be properly tuned and an individual that operates a gun that way needs some tuning themselves :-) Train Robber pullllease... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Walt. 92206 Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 I would suggest that any gun that needs to be operated like you stole it needs to be properly tuned and an individual that operates a gun that way needs some tuning themselves :-) Train Robber I could probably use some tuning, but anytime I baby a 97, I have bad results. That is why I run a 87. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 I would suggest that any gun that needs to be operated like you stole it needs to be properly tuned and an individual that operates a gun that way needs some tuning themselves :-) Train Robber Arf, arf!! Don't we all!? Let's get the MythBusters boys, Adam and Jamie and that one-bubble-off guy, Grant to devise a machine to speed-test a Win97 action. If they can't break it, then our un-named gunsmith has a lot of "splain'in" to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Coles SASS 1188 Posted March 28, 2013 Author Share Posted March 28, 2013 Sounds like bs or burma shave to me. A competition gun CAN'T be expected to be run any way BUT fast and furiously (to coin a phrase). Tough to say without seeing the gun why this happened, except that this sounds pretty off-the-wall and essentially is "non-communication." I guess that's the nicest thing I can say about THAT and stay out of a large arguement here on the Wire. Moving on from that, I will say, however, that I think it it would be in your best interests if you could get your hands on an original Win97 with an uncut barrel ... that is, one that hasn't been used in CAS previously and then invest a little into turning it into your match shotgun. You pretty much have THAT much invested in ONE of your revolvers. A real Win97 is literally a mechanical work of art. Cat Brules I have a very nice 1897 (90%+ blue in great mechanical shape) and a fantastic Model 12 (both 30 inch full), but I can't bring myself to cut either one down and beat them up. I am keeping my eye out for a Model 12 with an after market compensator on it to cut down. I started the Chinese 1897 project just before WB announced they would OK the 12. For SASS I shoot a double or an 1887. The whole "rack it gently" thing sounds like bull to me. This guy is one of the well recommended smiths for tuning a 97. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 The work of in the original Winchester 97's is great! But I've worn out two nice Winchesters in less than half the time I've been shooting a couple of IAC clones. The steel is a little harder in the newer clones and wears much slower. It is a little harder to get the clones as slick as the originals, maybe partly due to the hardness. But after the beep, I don't notice any difference. I'm sure if you were to stress the 97 TOO hard, it would be a problem. The main problem I've seen with any of them is if they are fired out of battery. Pretty rare, but I've seen a few. Me, I'm generally too soft with mine so they don't wear much, but they run better when I'm a little more firm with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 The work of in the original Winchester 97's is great! But I've worn out two nice Winchesters in less than half the time I've been shooting a couple of IAC clones. The steel is a little harder in the newer clones and wears much slower. It is a little harder to get the clones as slick as the originals, maybe partly due to the hardness. But after the beep, I don't notice any difference. I'm sure if you were to stress the 97 TOO hard, it would be a problem. The main problem I've seen with any of them is if they are fired out of battery. Pretty rare, but I've seen a few. Me, I'm generally too soft with mine so they don't wear much, but they run better when I'm a little more firm with them. Yeah, not many. The Win97 has, as you know, designed-in features/functionality to prevent out-of-battery discharges. If it does so discharge, it pretty much has to be due to worn or broken parts, faulty reassembly (perhaps) or some other user fubar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKFOOT SASS #11947 Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 My '97 started really getting hard to operate at a match once but a good spraying with Balistol got it going fine. Seems that the wind had brought about half of the Arizona desert with it and deposited it in my gun. Lafitte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 One of the weak points of the ole 97 is that it only has one action bar instead of the two that modern pumps have. Thus is behooves the operator to try to pump the forearm straight back without putting any human arm "torque" input into the process and causing a "bind" in the action works. Hard to remember to do in the heat of battle. If some smart manufacturer would come out with a pump that looked like a 97 with exposed hammer on the outside but with improved internals and twin action bars they would sell well I bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 If some smart manufacturer would come out with a pump that looked like a 97 with exposed hammer on the outside but with improved internals and twin action bars they would sell well I bet. Yes... But if someone were to make that, it would not be SASS legal, because it would not be a 97, and the 97 is the only pump shotgun allowed. Even though new rifle and revolver designs that did not exist back in the day but that are somehow made in the spirit of things that were can be created, made legal and used, this is not true for shotguns. Go fig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventura Slim, SASS #35690 Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I have had 97s bind up on me more than once and the one thing I have learned is if it happens, in competition hand it off, and do not let anyone play with it trying to help and then give it to your local 97 smith, shout out to muleskinner for socal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Coles SASS 1188 Posted April 28, 2013 Author Share Posted April 28, 2013 I got the gun back in the post and it seems to be OK. We will see how it works at the Alaska state WB match in a few weeks. This was worked on by one of the top 97 smiths (no names here) and he did the repairs under warranty since he had just done a full competition tune on it. I still don't really buy his "pumping it too hard" explanation for what went wrong with it, but as long as it runs fine I don't much care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Yes... But if someone were to make that, it would not be SASS legal, because it would not be a 97, and the 97 is the only pump shotgun allowed. Even though new rifle and revolver designs that did not exist back in the day but that are somehow made in the spirit of things that were can be created, made legal and used, this is not true for shotguns. Go fig. Not necessarily so. The WB can approve anything they care to. Look at the Big Boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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