Hot weather and dressing cowboy

[Bart Solo]

This summer one of the clubs where I shoot had a couple of official "Hawaiian" cowboy matches. Hawaiian shirts and shorts were not only allowed they were encouraged so long as the shooter worn boots and a "cowboy" hat. There is nothing funnier looking than a grown man wearing shorts and cowboy boots. We all had a good time. Given the extreme heat this summer the club was wise to bend the rules for those specific events. While some might be amused watching old men pass out from the heat, those who have ever suffered from the heat find heat related illnesses to be scary.

 

I find the comparisons of cowboy shooting to combat and construction where soldiers and workers of necessity wear heavy protective gear to be silly. CAS is pure entertainment. We aren't soldiers, nor are we construction workers. The Wild Bunch is our vendor, not our boss. There is no reason to for any of us to punish ourselves to be entertained. That said, where I shoot after the second or third shoot everybody wears cowboy inspired clothes completely within the rules. Now, I have to admit I sometimes wear zippered pants, but at my age and given the state of my prostate, fiddling with buttons is hazardous to my dignity.

 

Personly I believe this is a thread decrying a problem that doesn't exist.

[Captain Bill Burt]

If a club has different rules that allow for extreme weather conditions, those rules are published, and members of those clubs abide by those rules, what right does a visitor have to complain? Vote with your feet if you don't like it. If the people running the club have any sense they're going to set rules that maximize participation and therefore revenue. If they are following that approach then they are by definition setting rules that ensure the largest number of people are satisified.

 

I've never understood a mindset of "I want to do things this way and therefore I want other's to do it this way too." Now if the club rules prohibit something and a shooter violates that, that's a totally different issue. Likewise violating the spirit of the game to allow dress that doesn't deal with weather or health issues is going to far, IMHO. For example allowing someone to wear a ball cap serves no legitimate purpose that I can see, whereas allowing someone to wear short pants and shirtsleeves in 100 degree plus 90% humidity is clearly going to make that person more comfortable and potentially increase attendance.

 

But as other posters have said this is a dead horse, the lines have been drawn and it's highly unlikely that anyone will change their opinion based on anything posted in this forum.

[Griff]

Not even an 1892 Clevveland Spiders cap?

[Griff]

No problem. As I answered a PM on this. The weather at one range started in the 60s and got as high as lower 80s. I did bring it up why there were a couple shooters with baseball caps and tennis shoes on, I was told it gets hot before end of match and they want shooters to be comfortable.

I only brought it up, because its happening, maybe only at a few clubs which allow it, or turn their back to it. But it can happen more because I see "excuse" written on the wire, and were will it stop, or do we change. I guess before a controversial post, one must go through several pages of explanations, and complete rundown on the item being written about. But I didn't wait to bring this up only on the wire, I also brought it up at the 3 matches out of state, and they were only monthlies. Hope that further clarifies the issue of only posting on the wire. MT

I do commend you on your post, very well written. MT

My apologies, I mis-intrepeted your intent.

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

If a club has different rules that allow for extreme weather conditions, those rules are published, and members of those clubs abide by those rules, what right does a visitor have to complain? Vote with your feet if you don't like it. If the people running the club have any sense they're going to set rules that maximize participation and therefore revenue. If they are following that approach then they are by definition setting rules that ensure the largest number of people are satisified.

 

I've never understood a mindset of "I want to do things this way and therefore I want other's to do it this way too." Now if the club rules prohibit something and a shooter violates that, that's a totally different issue. Likewise violating the spirit of the game to allow dress that doesn't deal with weather or health issues is going to far, IMHO. For example allowing someone to wear a ball cap serves no legitimate purpose that I can see, whereas allowing someone to wear short pants and shirtsleeves in 100 degree plus 90% humidity is clearly going to make that person more comfortable and potentially increase attendance.

 

But as other posters have said this is a dead horse, the lines have been drawn and it's highly unlikely that anyone will change their opinion based on anything posted in this forum.

I agree, if a club decides to allow relaxed clothing rules for a match, then those are the rules for that match-no gripes. If you see someone wearing shorts, tennis shoes or whatever and the club has not changed the rules for the weather or a special event, the offending shooter should be pointed out to the match officials to take action. If the match officials do not take action, you always have the choice to keep shooting, leave or not come back.

[Captain Bill Burt]

Yep, keep in mind the Wild Bunch can change their contractual relationship with local clubs and outlaw dress modifications if they so choose. So long as they allow clubs to make that call at a local level, then those calls are not a violation of the dress code, nor are they a violation of the spirit of the game. If enough people don't like it, petition the Wild Bunch to put it up for a vote by the TGs. I bet that will never happen because the ultimate result if it were passed would be a decrease in participation and revenue. That is one reason I object to people who could change the rule to their liking at any time, but don't, castigating people who live within the rules as they are written. Particularly when the one pointing their finger doesn't change the rules because it's in their financial interest to leave it as it is.

[Pit Bull Tex]

Down here in Possum's country. I have shot when is was way over a hundred and when it was under 30.I always wear cowboy stuff,mainly because I can't wear my other stuff.I would not care if everyone had on shorts,and the ladies for sure.I don't care if everyone wore short sleeves,lots of ladies do.Never seen anyone in tennis stuff,I like boots but thats just me.I like to dress up and play cowboy,again thats just me.I don't think that is makes a person a bad person if that don't dress up,again thats just me.Just let me shoot and play the game.

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Yep, keep in mind the Wild Bunch can change their contractual relationship with local clubs and outlaw dress modifications if they so choose. So long as they allow clubs to make that call at a local level, then those calls are not a violation of the dress code, nor are they a violation of the spirit of the game. If enough people don't like it, petition the Wild Bunch to put it up for a vote by the TGs. I bet that will never happen because the ultimate result if it were passed would be a decrease in participation and revenue. That is one reason I object to people who could change the rule to their liking at any time, but don't, castigating people who live within the rules as they are written. Particularly when the one pointing their finger doesn't change the rules because it's in their financial interest to leave it as it is.

In this litigation society we live in, can't you just imagine what would happen if the Wild Bunch forced clubs to stop alternative dress due to hot weather and the next shoot someone died of sun stroke?

[Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381]

If a club has different rules that allow for extreme weather conditions, those rules are published, and members of those clubs abide by those rules, what right does a visitor have to complain? Vote with your feet if you don't like it. If the people running the club have any sense they're going to set rules that maximize participation and therefore revenue. If they are following that approach then they are by definition setting rules that ensure the largest number of people are satisified.

I've never understood a mindset of "I want to do things this way and therefore I want other's to do it this way too." Now if the club rules prohibit something and a shooter violates that, that's a totally different issue. Likewise violating the spirit of the game to allow dress that doesn't deal with weather or health issues is going to far, IMHO. For example allowing someone to wear a ball cap serves no legitimate purpose that I can see, whereas allowing someone to wear short pants and shirtsleeves in 100 degree plus 90% humidity is clearly going to make that person more comfortable and potentially increase attendance.

 

But as other posters have said this is a dead horse, the lines have been drawn and it's highly unlikely that anyone will change their opinion based on anything posted in this forum.

 

 

Ding, ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

[Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381]

all in all what I am trying to say, is that we are a fun gruop, and contrary to some opinions do NOT have a costume police, so if folks stay somewhat within the cowboy realm we can still shoot and have fun. After all we are not a reinactor group that requires exact duplication of clothing, etc etc....

 

 

Uh oh!!!! :o

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Shiiiii...if some of the living brain donors that have Hot Weather issues would simple stay hydrated...they'd be fine wearing their usual outfits.

 

People say I'm an idiot for...oh wait...I am an idiot...well anyway, they say I'm an idiot for wearing my all black (for the most part) cowboy usual even when hot...but I like wearing my cowboy duds...so I just make sure I drink a lot of water...wet my hair down...

 

Come on, cowboy cloths ain't that hard to wear in adverse weather conditions.

 

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

I can only remember one time we solicited a shooter to try our sport, dressed in shorts, a ball cap and tee shirt, that is what he was wearing at the time. He came and shot 3 or 4 stages as I recall with us. He was there (like he is many days per week) to practice another shooting sport after we completed our shooting. He is a world famous professional pistol shooter for the last 30 years of so, winning almost every single important semiauto pistol match, most, multiple times. It was amazing watching him do cowboy shooting for the first time and how quickly he adapted to guns he had never shot before. He was blazing fast except with the shotgun loading.

[Santa Fe River Stan,36999L]

Shiiiii...if some of the living brain donors that have Hot Weather issues would simple stay hydrated...they'd be fine wearing their usual outfits.

 

People say I'm an idiot for...oh wait...I am an idiot...well anyway, they say I'm an idiot for wearing my all black (for the most part) cowboy usual even when hot...but I like wearing my cowboy duds...so I just make sure I drink a lot of water...wet my hair down...

 

Come on, cowboy cloths ain't that hard to wear in adverse weather conditions.

 

 

Ding,Ding,Ding,Ding!!!!!!! We have a WINNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

Stan

[Captain Bill Burt]

Shiiiii...if some of the living brain donors that have Hot Weather issues would simple stay hydrated...they'd be fine wearing their usual outfits.

 

People say I'm an idiot for...oh wait...I am an idiot...well anyway, they say I'm an idiot for wearing my all black (for the most part) cowboy usual even when hot...but I like wearing my cowboy duds...so I just make sure I drink a lot of water...wet my hair down...

 

Come on, cowboy cloths ain't that hard to wear in adverse weather conditions.

 

So when a club provides amended clothing rules based on local weather conditions what are cowboys who abide by those amended rules doing wrong? Are their actions wrong, or the club's amended rules wrong, or both? Their actions impact other cowboys at the match in what way? Why does the Wild Bunch allow local clubs to make those changes? Who is in a better position to decide what is best for a club, the members, or cowboys thousands of miles away?

 

Perhaps I'm just to 'stoopid' to feel comfortable telling other pards that even though they're abiding by the rules they're wrong.

 

BTW ad hominem attacks usually indicate an inability to muster a substantive response.

[Krazy Kajun]

This.

[Captain Bill Burt]

This.

Yep, don't know why I even bother.

[Mad Dog Jack, SASS #77862]

So when a club provides amended clothing rules based on local weather conditions what are cowboys who abide by those amended rules doing wrong? Are their actions wrong, or the club's amended rules wrong, or both? Their actions impact other cowboys at the match in what way? Why does the Wild Bunch allow local clubs to make those changes? Who is in a better position to decide what is best for a club, the members, or cowboys thousands of miles away?

 

Perhaps I'm just to 'stoopid' to feel comfortable telling other pards that even though they're abiding by the rules they're wrong.

This shouldn't be hard to figure out... if it's optional to wear, say, Hawaiian then it's just that. An option. So you can wear your regular duds if you want to, or at YOUR option wear something else. Should be obvious if you are wearing your regular cowboy clothes that you are doing nothing wrong. If the members of a particular club do not want to have such an option, they'll let the leadership know and maybe they won't have it again. Or if they have it and you don't want to participate, well, don't.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

So when a club provides amended clothing rules based on local weather conditions what are cowboys who abide by those amended rules doing wrong?

 

Nothing...just taking advantage of a local rule...allowed by SASS...but that don't necessarily make it a good rule.

 

 

Are their actions wrong See above...or clarify what you mean by "Wrong".

 

 

or the club's amended rules wrong, or both? Maybe...

 

 

Their actions impact other cowboys at the match in what way? Hmmmm...great question...does what other's wear affect others at a match. Ponder that one for a bit...to a certain extent, yes, their actions do impact other CAS at a match. How you wish to weigh that impact is a whole nuther issue

 

 

Why does the Wild Bunch allow local clubs to make those changes? Well, you'd have to ask them. But MY take on it is that they have to allow local rules as many ranges have rules that must superceed SASS rules.

 

Who is in a better position to decide what is best for a club, the members, or cowboys thousands of miles away? Huh???? I would think that a SASS affiliated club would wish to promote SASS to the best of their abilities. I would think that consistance of rules and guidelines would be part of that consistancy...but yes, this question does confuze me a bit.

 

Perhaps I'm just to 'stoopid' to feel comfortable telling other pards that even though they're abiding by the rules they're wrong. See above...and sorry, but I have no way of telling your level of intellegence over the internet.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

BTW ad hominem attacks usually indicate an inability to muster a substantive response.

 

Yeayeayea...whatever. And I suppose you disdain generalizations.

 

[Pit Bull Tex]

Phantom,If your a idiot,I guess I am in your idiot club if for have one.I like my cowboy stuff also.How are you Pard.Pit Bull

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Phantom,If your a idiot,I guess I am in your idiot club if for have one.I like my cowboy stuff also.How are you Pard.Pit Bull

 

I'm doing great my friend...lookin forward to seein ya again. Try and stay outta trouble till then.

 

[Captain Bill Burt]

Phantom one of the things I've learned to like about you is your willingness to take a position and to he!! with what others think. It's a trait I think we share.

 

Having said that your first point about whether it's a good rule is certainly debatable, just as the rules that allow short strokes and other mods is. However, if you believe the rule is a bad one you have an issue with the WB, not cowboys who follow the rule, just as purists opposed to short strokes have an issue with the WB, not with you. The same holds true with respect to club rules you view as wrong. If a pard doesn't like a rule, take it up with the people who made the rule, not those who are operating within them. How would you react to someone taking you to task for shooting a short stroked rifle?

 

Your response about how one cowboy's attire impacts another's experience is semantically null, non responsive.

 

Similarly your response to why the WB allows these deviations is non responsive, I'm unaware of any club that has rules prohibiting adherence to SASS dress requirements. That is clearly not why the WB allows those deviations, they do so because it is in their self interest to do so.

 

With respect to your next point gun clubs are businesses and local SASS organizations obviously have to make themselves financially appealing to their host club by maximizing attendance and revenue, not purity to ideals, unless that purity increases attendance.

 

My last question was clearly tongue in check, but it certainly is possible to judge intelligence based on debate over the internet, but sometimes the testee exceeds the testing instrument.

[Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381]

So when a club provides amended clothing rules based on local weather conditions what are cowboys who abide by those amended rules doing wrong? Are their actions wrong, or the club's amended rules wrong, or both? Their actions impact other cowboys at the match in what way? Why does the Wild Bunch allow local clubs to make those changes? Who is in a better position to decide what is best for a club, the members, or cowboys thousands of miles away?

 

Perhaps I'm just to 'stoopid' to feel comfortable telling other pards that even though they're abiding by the rules they're wrong.

 

 

Gawd forbid that I say anything in favor of Phantom , but I don't think he is real adverse to weather modifications from past threads. I may be wrong. That said, it is a whole lot easier to make such statements when you are in your 40s than when you are in your 60s. It is a well known medical fact that folks 60+ are more prone to heat injuries. A lot of folks 60+ are also taking medications that make them more susceptible to heat injuries.

 

It is rare here in the PNW that I ever have to relax clothing rules, because we have a very temperate climate. But I WILL do it if we are hit by extremes. Most folks still dress cowboy, myself included, and like Phantom says, we push hydration, and the club has iced water on hand. Another advantage of our club is that we have covers, so we don't get direct sun. I have never allowed ball caps or tennis shoes, or t-shirts, nor will I. Nevertheless, if we got hit by a rare heat extreme, I might do a Magnum P.I. match where people could wear anything that they want between their boots and their cowboy hat. I think folks would have a hoot doing this. If not, trust me, they would let me know. I do agree this should be a local club issue. Some clubs, like ours, are part of a bigger entity. We have to justify our existence. I also know there is a line in the sand, and some folks agree and some folks disagree. Such is real life. We do not always agree. At least we can try to be civil to one another. This constant denigrating grows old in a hurry and is not necessary.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Phantom one of the things I've learned to like about you is your willingness to take a position and to he!! With what other's think. It's a trait I think we share.

 

Having said that your first point about whether it's a good rule is certainly debatable, just as the rules that allow short strokes and other mods is. However, if you believe the rule is a bad one you have an issue with the WB, not cowboys who follow the rule, just as purists opposed to short strokes ave an issue with the WB, not with you. The same holds true with respect to club rules you view as wrong. If a pard doesn't like a rule, take it up with the people who made the rule, not those who are operating within them. How would you react to someone taking you to task for shooting a short stroked rifle?

 

Your response about how one cowboy's attire impacts another's experience is semantically null, non responsive.

 

Similarly your response to why the WB allows these deviations is non responsive, I'm unaware of any club that has rules prohibiting adherence to SASS dress requirements. That is clearly not why the WB allows those deviations, they do so because it is in their self interest to do so.

 

With respect to your next point gun clubs are businesses and local SASS organizations obviously have to make themselves financially appealing to their host club by maximizing attendance and revenue, not purity to ideals, unless that purity increases attendance.

 

My last question was clearly tongue in check, but it certainly is possible to judge intelligence based on debate over the internet, but sometimes the testee exceeds the testing instrument.

 

You'll have to excuse me as I don't have access to a judge at the moment to rule whether my answer(s) were non-responsive.

 

I'm not going to continue as it's obvious that we'll get into some semantical war...and I put way to much of my daily life into that little game.

 

And it is reeeeeeally not possible to judge one's intellegence over the internet...if one comes off stoopid...is he/she truly stoopid...or extremely intellegent and just screwin with folks that think they can judge one's intellegence over the internet?

 

So...I'll just let me initial post stand as is...you can agree with it...disagree with it...laugh at it for it's silliness and ignorance...your choice...choose wisely.

 

Cheers!

Phantom

[Captain Bill Burt]

I agree Okie, getting personal doesn't help anyone. As a long, long time teacher it seems as if the longer I live the more aware I become of how little I know, and the more hesitant I am to judge other's actions and the more i resist others presuming to judge me. I also find myself continually falling into the habit of being a devil's advocate and constantly asking why. I also really enjoy debating intelligent adults; unfortunately they can be hard to find at my school.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Gawd forbid that I say anything in favor of Phantom , but I don't think he is real adverse to weather modifications from past threads. I may be wrong. That said, it is a whole lot easier to make such statements when you are in your 40s than when you are in your 60s. It is a well known medical fact that folks 60+ are more prone to heat injuries. A lot of folks 60+ are also taking medications that make them more susceptible to heat injuries.

 

It is rare here in the PNW that I ever have to relax clothing rules, because we have a very temperate climate. But I WILL do it if we are hit by extremes. Most folks still dress cowboy, myself included, and like Phantom says, we push hydration, and the club has iced water on hand. Another advantage of our club is that we have covers, so we don't get direct sun. I have never allowed ball caps or tennis shoes, or t-shirts, nor will I. Nevertheless, if we got hit by a rare heat extreme, I might do a Magnum P.I. match where people could wear anything that they want between their boots and their cowboy hat. I think folks would have a hoot doing this. If not, trust me, they would let me know. I do agree this should be a local club issue. Some clubs, like ours, are part of a bigger entity. We have to justify our existence. I also know there is a line in the sand, and some folks agree and some folks disagree. Such is real life. We do not always agree. At least we can try to be civil to one another. This constant denigrating grows old in a hurry and is not necessary.

 

You're are correct - I'm not against modifications to the dress requirements when weather conditions are severe. I do think that some folks don't really need to take advantage of the modifications particularly in hot weather. Most of the time problems arise not from what they wear, but from the fact that they drink soda and not water...

 

And yes, I think we profit as a whole when we do our best to dress the part.

 

[Captain Bill Burt]

You'll have to excuse me as I don't have access to a judge at the moment to rule whether my answer(s) were non-responsive.

 

I'm not going to continue as it's obvious that we'll get into some semantical war...and I put way to much of my daily life into that little game.

 

And it is reeeeeeally not possible to judge one's intellegence over the internet...if one comes off stoopid...is he/she truly stoopid...or extremely intellegent and just screwin with folks that think they can judge one's intellegence over the internet?

 

So...I'll just let me initial post stand as is...you can agree with it...disagree with it...laugh at it for it's silliness and ignorance...your choice...choose wisely.

 

Cheers!

Phantom

Never known you to be silly or ignorant, but I do disagree, respectfully.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

It is a well known medical fact[/b] that folks 60+ are more prone to heat injuries. A lot of folks 60+ are also taking medications that make them more susceptible to heat injuries.

 

I'm 61yo w/CHF(stage 'C')and with the meds I'm on, all of which warn of increased risk of heat stroke.

Having 'relaxed' dress codes helps out much in the heat of the Mojave Desert.It's the only way I can shoot till it just gets stupid hot........

LG

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

I'm 61yo w/CHF(stage 'C')and with the meds I'm on, all of which warn of increased risk of heat stroke.

Having 'relaxed' dress codes helps out much in the heat of the Mojave Desert.It's the only way I can shoot till it just gets stupid hot........

LG

 

Health reasons trump all.

 

[Captain Bill Burt]

BTW, when I'm next in Texas I fully expect you to not only shoot with me but buy me a drink afterward!

[Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381]

I'm 61yo w/CHF(stage 'C')and with the meds I'm on, all of which warn of increased risk of heat stroke.

Having 'relaxed' dress codes helps out much in the heat of the Mojave Desert.It's the only way I can shoot till it just gets stupid hot........

LG

 

Sure sorry to hear you have CHF, Lumpy. One drug they commonly give is a diuretic, which can directly lead to heat stroke. Use care!

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

BTW, when I'm next in Texas I fully expect you to not only shoot with me but buy me a drink afterward!

 

Of course!

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Sure sorry to hear you have CHF, Lumpy. One drug they commonly give is a diuretic, which can directly lead to heat stroke. Use care!

 

Sure am, it's called Hydrochlorot(who comes up with these names )12.5 mg, OTD.

My Doc also has me on his "banana" diet(2-3 @ week)to keep my Potassium up. I have always been the type that sweats 'buckets'doing anydangthing, so that has him worried also.

Thanks Doc for the concern. I'm in good hands....

LG

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

BTW, when I'm next in Texas I fully expect you to not only shoot with me but buy me a drink afterward!

 

Damn well better put a hair in his glass....... :lol:

LG

[Captain Bill Burt]

Sure am, it's called Hydrochlorot(who comes up with these names )12.5 mg, OTD.

My Doc also has me on his "banana" diet(2-3 @ week)to keep my Potassium up. I have always been the type that sweats 'buckets'doing anydangthing, so that has him worried also.

Thanks Doc for the concern. I'm in good hands....

LG

Stretching and pickle juice pard (vinegar if you can stomach it) back when I coached HS football and soccer they worked, much quicker than nanners (as my granmaw would say).