Is It Time To Rotate EOT Location?

[Cypress Sun]

I know this subject has come up before. I also know that SASS has invested a lot of capital into Founders Ranch. But, is it time to rotate EOT to different areas of the country so that more folks could attend?

 

I'm not trying to start anything, just wanting to see what the overall opinions are.

 

Sun

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Won't happen...plus with over 600 shooters attending this year I would wager that EoT is doing fine where it is.

 

GG ~

[Jack Houston # 35508]

Nope..won't ever happen unless YOU buy Founder's Ranch

 

For a Healthy Profit!!

[Grizzly Dave]

Fair question I reckon.

 

I'd say no. Few facilities could handle the number of shooters other than Ben Avery in Phoenix and the complex in Sparta.

 

Having it in a different part of the country might get you a different mix of shooters, but I don't know that it would get more. And even shooting 3 waves each day you have to limit overall number at some point or the posses are too big to work.

 

Other than the weather I haven't heard too many negatives about founder's ranch. The one I have heard that concerns me is the lack of a suitable place to hold the awards. If you have 700 or so shooters, I know they won't all stay for the awards, but having a venue that only holds 200 is annoying. Perhaps having the awards the day after the end of the main match is a calculated way of reducing the number of folks that will want to be at the awards. Then again, I wasn't there, it could be they had something reasonable set up for the overflow.

[Matthew Duncan]

Nope. They got a mortage to pay off..

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

How many local clubs could handle a match of that size by themselves?

 

How many local clubs could handle a match of that size with help from SASS HQ (Or whatever)?

Would SASS HQ (or whatever) help?

 

Part of the above question is not only whether the local club but the local economy, transportation, hotels, RV parking etc could handle it.

[Hoseman, SASS #35541]

NOPE

[Ivory Jack, #8534 LTG]

How many local clubs could handle a match of that size by themselves?

 

How many local clubs could handle a match of that size with help from SASS HQ (Or whatever)?

Would SASS HQ (or whatever) help?

 

Part of the above question is not only whether the local club but the local economy, transportation, hotels, RV parking etc could handle it.

 

 

Uh, hello...The Cowboys hosted EoT for 20 years. In 2004 we had 800 shooters and over a 100 vendors, and 25,000 paying spectators. But let's face it, Founders Ranch is the home of EoT now, and will be for a long, long time to come.

[Two Feathers MacKenzie, SASS #80069]

they don't need to move it, just get more close housing for those who don't want to or cannot camp.

 

Two Feathers

[Hondo Tucker]

If you want to watch the Indy 500, ya gotta go to Indy.

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

As an alternative to investing in FR, the WB might have considered a rotating venue (aka Superbowl) arrangement, but they didn't. They built a venue and have done whatever is needed to get 600 shooters to make the trip....

 

What they will NEVER see, and COULD BE a great thing for shooting sports (especially CAS), is the kinds of crowds they saw in CA. VENDORS will never see the dollar flow-though they saw in CA. the public will never witness the greats shooting like they did in CA.....

 

Too bad, really, because I think they COULD have made a rotating venue schedule WORK, maybe piggybacking with say NASCAR, because YES, a suitable shooting range for a SASS event CAN be created almost overnight IF the rest of the facilities are already there. (Think monster trucks or motocross, where they DO move bunches of dirt and create somethin out of nothin literally overnight.)

 

I know ya could make a venue for EOT in the infield of Watkins Glen or Pamona or Talledega, just saying.....

 

But IF yer goal is for ALL the income to come to one pot, ya gotta OWN a piece of property, preferably in the west, in a rural area, where ya can AFFORD to run and maintain it with what amounts to relatively infrequent use. The WB did that, and ARE pulling it off.....

[Red River Ralph 49760]

it isn't going to happen. with the regionals hosting large numbers and if gas ever get since able. Founders ranch is the place. Weather in nEW mEX ISN'T ANY HARDER THAN ELSEWHERE IT'S HOT COLD WET JUST LIKE ANYWHERE ELSE THE NEED FOR HOUSING IS A QUESTION BUT IF THEY BUILD IT THEY WILL COME. So improving utilities on site and other improvements could increase but as for a rotation of eot no way.

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

Uh, hello...The Cowboys hosted EoT for 20 years. In 2004 we had 800 shooters and over a 100 vendors, and 25,000 paying spectators. But let's face it, Founders Ranch is the home of EoT now, and will be for a long, long time to come.

 

Hello Ivory Jack, The OP was talking about ROTATING EOT locations this REQUIRES more than one club to do this function.

The Cowboys did it for 20 years. Does that mean there are other clubs that can do it too? Perhaps?

One club does not a ROTATION make! What other clubs could do it? That is the real question of practicality.

Let alone that SASS owns Founders Ranch and is unlikely in the current environment to change where EOT is held.

[Dante]

We just got back from EOT after driving over 4,100 miles. It was our first trip to EOT. Would it have been easier and cheaper for us if it had been closer? Yeah. Was the trip grueling? You bet? Will we come again, ABSOLUTELY!

 

picture of trip meter

[Ivory Jack, #8534 LTG]

Hello Ivory Jack, The OP was talking about ROTATING EOT locations this REQUIRES more than one club to do this function.

The Cowboys did it for 20 years. Does that mean there are other clubs that can do it too? Perhaps?

One club does not a ROTATION make! What other clubs could do it? That is the real question of practicality.

Let alone that SASS owns Founders Ranch and is unlikely in the current environment to change where EOT is held.

 

Howdy Hacker,

 

I got the rotating part. I was merely responding to your question concerning club capabilities: The Cowboys offer up a West Coast facility for future rotation.

 

 

Hacker, SASS #55963, on 27 June 2011 - 05:02 PM, said:

 

How many local clubs could handle a match of that size by themselves?

 

How many local clubs could handle a match of that size with help from SASS HQ (Or whatever)?

Would SASS HQ (or whatever) help?

 

Part of the above question is not only whether the local club but the local economy, transportation, hotels, RV parking etc could handle it.

 

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Ain't ever gunna happen 'till the WB ain't the WB anymore.

 

Housing on site I don't think is an option as I believe that they don't have H2O rights...OY!!!

 

Nobody understands how great EoT could be unless they were at one of the one's held in Norco, CA. The vendors and the spectators that came made the whole experience unbelievable.

 

But I do believe that there could easily be a West and East Coast host.

 

Phantom

[hud]

NORCO, would be nice

hud

[Sierrita Slim]

New Mexico is a lot closer to the east coast than California is. Albuquerque is a "hub" airport. There's hotels and motels in Edgewood and Moriarty and a little way down the road there are tons of hotels/motels in Albuquerque. I think it's fine where it is. I was real fortunate they moved it near me but was planning on going to California for it, never thought about trying to get them to change locations to make it easier for me, it was where it was. Now it is where it is. I think it'll stay there a LONNNNNgggggggg time.

[Grizzly Dave]

Ain't ever gunna happen 'till the WB ain't the WB anymore.

 

Housing on site I don't think is an option as I believe that they don't have H2O rights...OY!!!

 

Nobody understands how great EoT could be unless they were at one of the one's held in Norco, CA. The vendors and the spectators that came made the whole experience unbelievable.

 

But I do believe that there could easily be a West and East Coast host.

 

Phantom

 

Thinking out loud here, don't flog me yet...

 

- EOT, the SASS world championships ain't gonna move any time in the foreseeable future, I think we all agree on that, or are at least resigned to it.

 

- State and Regional championships (and some annuals) draw fairly well but sometimes fill up, or don't draw as well from outside the state or region.

 

- nobody is winning any Cadillac cars

 

- other than the current championship matches (State, US-Winter Range, World-EOT, and regionals) there is nothing stopping a club, or group of clubs from putting together a 'mega match' that would target a large audience.

 

So Grizz, what's yer point already?

 

Glad you asked...

 

Two matches....

 

BEST OF THE WEST

BEST OF THE EAST

 

draw the lines by state or the Mississippi or whatever.

 

Plan your matches for 2012, market the heck of of them, if you build it they will come.

 

Grizz

[Tom Muley]

My question is how much longer will SASS and EoT be around? The Powers are getting up in age and I don't see any younger people stepping up or rich enough to make a move. 5, 10, 15, or 20 years?

[Blackey Cole]

I think a lot of things could be done different but I do not think moving it would be a good thing. Would you move the Nationals? No. It has been in NM for several years now and the same thing is being said. Rotate it or move it back to Ca. Both would not work for different reasons. It left Ca because of the political reason, government not club level.

 

One thing to improve would to lower cost for the vendors especially since transportation cost are so high now and never look to get better. Vendor either have to haul their wares or ship them both are very expensive to do. ANd another things that needs to be done is advertising in the ABQ area which wasn't done to any noticeable level this year. They should buy air time on both the local tv and radio venues. These two things would generate more money for both SASS and the Vendors which in turn would allow the vendors to increase in number back to the level that was in attendance at the first EOT back in 2005. It also would generate funds for SASS that could be used to improve things at the ranch like more buildings to create a better atmosphere and better props and targets plus modern electronics that would allow for electronic timer boards on each stage for better public and shooter experience and eventually a video system that would show the shooter shooting live back at the Bell Union or another venue setup for shooter and the public to sit and watch from.

 

The water system is what it is. No water for guests from the ranch's wells. The campground could be improved also. The Founders Ranch Members would get electricity first which is what they were told but if it was done on all rows that are used regularly they could charge more than $50 for a week+ of camping more like the downtown RV Parks $100 plus for the week. Water can be bought and transported to the ranch like several of the homesteads in the area do. This could be pumped in to a central holding tank and then pumped to the campsites. Expensive but the more amenities that are available the more the campsite can go for and not every site needs water. Do the rows that get used the most and charge more for water like they do for at many of the federal and state parks. You want electricity you pay x, water also add y. Dump facilities are available in almost every direction from the ranch so that isn't needed.

 

Have a room that has a bed, dresser and a wardrobe plus a gallon of water in a pitcher with a basin much like what was provided in the old west time at hotels is all that is needed for single shooters that don't need anything but a room would also generate funds up to $65 a night. If you need a shower run in to the truck stop. Several things could be done to give the town a realistic old west town look. things like having a barber shop in town, a Cafe( both manned by one of the vendors). A general store that provides more things needed by visitors over what the Mercantile carries. I was in need of an ace bandage one morning before the Paramedics were on site and none was available. Campers would need things like bread, and other sundries. Day visitors would also have items that could carried by the general store. All these buildings and business could be manned and stocked if needed by vendors all SASS needs to do is have the store front available and book the vendor at a price that allows SASS to benefit plus provide services for the shooters and public. If each year SASS would open a one of these businesses shooter would look forward to what is new so would the local public it would be a draw as well as the service provided.

 

These things would improve EOT. THe stages this year were great, everything ran like a clock work. So providing more services that are lacking each year can only be done if it is built upon if it is in the same place each year. Then every few years change and update the props and stuff on the shooting berms. A central system using electronic device would assist the CD Tom and the other workers in the scoring shack. Much like seen on tv for golf so the shooter knows where they stand in relation to other shooters that would allow them to play safe if they have enough of a lead or turn it on if they are close to over coming the leader.

 

To accomplish these things takes everyone that can to attend all the events at the ranch. We are unique in the shooting sports. We play differently and we are the only ones that have a property that allows us to do what we want to improve our experiences at the World Championship for our sport. EOT should be sold out every year since anyone who wishes to try to win the WOrld Championship can if they have the ability. We do not have to place well in qualifiers or be invited like some world championships. We are very lucky to have what we have

 

flame on

[Jackaroo, # 29989]

Wow Blackey!!!!!!!!!!

You certainly have some great ideas there, and I'm sure over the next years alot of what you outline could happen....but as we all know Rome wasn't built in a day either.

 

I would say with all those ideas you have..you should put your name down to join the Wild Bunch board...and start to get things moving. Maybe some new blood would hasten the projects.

 

It certainly would be wonderful to bring them all to fruition, but it would take some fundraising too!

 

I think all us cowboys would appreciate those improvments.

 

If half the SASS members donated say $250.00 each that would raise one & quarter million!!!!!

I'm sure that would go a long way to get things started.

Ride on!

[Blackey Cole]

I think a lot of things could be done different but I do not think moving it would be a good thing. Would you move the Nationals? No. It has been in NM for several years now and the same thing is being said. Rotate it or move it back to Ca. Both would not work for different reasons. It left Ca because of the political reason, government not club level.

 

One thing to improve would to lower cost for the vendors especially since transportation cost are so high now and never look to get better. Vendor either have to haul their wares or ship them both are very expensive to do. ANd another things that needs to be done is advertising in the ABQ area which wasn't done to any noticeable level this year. They should buy air time on both the local tv and radio venues. These two things would generate more money for both SASS and the Vendors which in turn would allow the vendors to increase in number back to the level that was in attendance at the first EOT back in 2005. It also would generate funds for SASS that could be used to improve things at the ranch like more buildings to create a better atmosphere and better props and targets plus modern electronics that would allow for electronic timer boards on each stage for better public and shooter experience and eventually a video system that would show the shooter shooting live back at the Bell Union or another venue setup for shooter and the public to sit and watch from.

 

The water system is what it is. No water for guests from the ranch's wells. The campground could be improved also. The Founders Ranch Members would get electricity first which is what they were told but if it was done on all rows that are used regularly they could charge more than $50 for a week+ of camping more like the downtown RV Parks $100 plus for the week. Water can be bought and transported to the ranch like several of the homesteads in the area do. This could be pumped in to a central holding tank and then pumped to the campsites. Expensive but the more amenities that are available the more the campsite can go for and not every site needs water. Do the rows that get used the most and charge more for water like they do for at many of the federal and state parks. You want electricity you pay x, water also add y. Dump facilities are available in almost every direction from the ranch so that isn't needed.

 

Have a room that has a bed, dresser and a wardrobe plus a gallon of water in a pitcher with a basin much like what was provided in the old west time at hotels is all that is needed for single shooters that don't need anything but a room would also generate funds up to $65 a night. If you need a shower run in to the truck stop. Several things could be done to give the town a realistic old west town look. things like having a barber shop in town, a Cafe( both manned by one of the vendors). A general store that provides more things needed by visitors over what the Mercantile carries. I was in need of an ace bandage one morning before the Paramedics were on site and none was available. Campers would need things like bread, and other sundries. Day visitors would also have items that could carried by the general store. All these buildings and business could be manned and stocked if needed by vendors all SASS needs to do is have the store front available and book the vendor at a price that allows SASS to benefit plus provide services for the shooters and public. If each year SASS would open a one of these businesses shooter would look forward to what is new so would the local public it would be a draw as well as the service provided.

 

These things would improve EOT. THe stages this year were great, everything ran like a clock work. So providing more services that are lacking each year can only be done if it is built upon if it is in the same place each year. Then every few years change and update the props and stuff on the shooting berms. A central system using electronic device would assist the CD Tom and the other workers in the scoring shack. Much like seen on tv for golf so the shooter knows where they stand in relation to other shooters that would allow them to play safe if they have enough of a lead or turn it on if they are close to over coming the leader.

 

To accomplish these things takes everyone that can to attend all the events at the ranch. We are unique in the shooting sports. We play differently and we are the only ones that have a property that allows us to do what we want to improve our experiences at the World Championship for our sport. EOT should be sold out every year since anyone who wishes to try to win the WOrld Championship can if they have the ability. We do not have to place well in qualifiers or be invited like some world championships. We are very lucky to have what we have

 

flame on

[Colonel John Hays, SASS #29625]

Ain't ever gunna happen 'till the WB ain't the WB anymore.

 

Housing on site I don't think is an option as I believe that they don't have H2O rights...OY!!!

 

Nobody understands how great EoT could be unless they were at one of the one's held in Norco, CA. The vendors and the spectators that came made the whole experience unbelievable.

 

But I do believe that there could easily be a West and East Coast host.

 

Phantom

 

YEP! Jack Hays

[Helda Huginkiss #23799]

No matter where EOT is we would go.. We were at a couple of them in California and boy was that a HOOT! Lots more mounted shooters there! and 2 Arenas going!!

Not sure We could take our horses 1400 miles cross country with gas the way it is..but we could show up as waddies.

As far as FR I could see some improvements happening for the Mounted too, Please.. How many of you came to watch way down over that thar far hill?

We could use some flat spots to park our trailers too..some electrical hookups and some mag chloride dust control for the arena and the parking area.. and some more water tanks that do not run out by the end of the weekend. Just a few suggestions.

XXXOOO Hel(who wishes she had known about the Poolie Gang)da Huginkiss.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

 

What they will NEVER see, and COULD BE a great thing for shooting sports (especially CAS), is the kinds of crowds they saw in CA. VENDORS will never see the dollar flow-though they saw in CA. the public will never witness the greats shooting like they did in CA.....

 

 

Good point - back when I watched EoT at Norco in '96 & '97 it was embraced with MANY a spectator, me being one. It was cool....

 

GG ~

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

Phantom hit the key problem on the nose.

This and other things wont happen until SASS moves from a .com to being a .org.

This would allow money to be raised easily by donations etc. and democracy.

 

In my opinion SASS as a .com with WB or any other group running it as a .com will always be a limiting factor.

As profit is necessary for a .com to survive and thrive.

 

No offense is meant by this post/comment.

[Madd Mike #8595]

iffen you are going to promote that

THAN

ya might as well ad

• 
   
  
• that you have to qualify to go
  

 

anything in the past that I have done that rotated world championship

 

ya

had to

qualify

 

talk about killing EOT

 

just my twisted facts, from a cloudy crystal ballllll

 

you all are open to present the wild bunch with R & D

I am sure they will look at all bids

[Madd Mike #8595]

Ain't ever gunna happen 'till the WB ain't the WB anymore.

 

Housing on site I don't think is an option as I believe that they don't have H2O rights...OY!!!

 

Nobody understands how great EoT could be unless they were at one of the one's held in Norco, CA. The vendors and the spectators that came made the whole experience unbelievable.

 

But I do believe that there could easily be a West and East Coast host.

 

Phantom

 

wow

multi black buckel winner, from cal

said to me at EOT 2011

 

it was the best overall EOT ever

 

that was a direct quote

hinting, that is was NOT perfect

 

I dont believe that I saw you there?

and I believe that you also left cal?

sassmaddmike@yahoo.com

dont git this pulled

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

iffen you are going to promote that

THAN

ya might as well ad

• that you have to qualify to go

 

anything in the past that I have done that rotated world championship

 

ya

had to

qualify

 

talk about killing EOT

 

just my twisted facts, from a cloudy crystal ballllll

 

you all are open to present the wild bunch with R & D

I am sure they will look at all bids

 

Thanks for reassuring the good folks here of that .....

 

GG ~

[shenny]

Just to muddy the waters a bit, I believe that I heard this type of conversation back in December.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

wow

multi black buckel winner, from cal

said to me at EOT 2011

 

it was the best overall EOT ever

 

that was a direct quote

hinting, that is was NOT perfect

 

I dont believe that I saw you there?

and I believe that you also left cal?

sassmaddmike@yahoo.com

dont git this pulled

 

Gee Mike...why the hostilities?

 

Best overall EOT ever...do you think they were refering to the Shooting aspect only?

 

No you didn't see me there...Come on my friend, what are you saying? I just opened a new Ma/Pa Gun store in Austin. All my monies and time are going into this effort. Shuting the store down for a week is IMPOSSIBLE...

 

Moving from CA happened because the company that I had been with for 29 years was purchased. They said come to TEXAS or find another job. Two kids in college...what would YOU do????

 

Fact is that EOT does NOT put on the extravaganza that it used to put on. There simply isn't the population to support it.

 

I'm truly surprised by your response to me...

 

And Buckey, the move didn't have anything to do with CA politics.

 

Phantom...who apparently is a poor supporter of SASS.

[ShadowCatcher]

Gee Mike...why the hostilities?

 

Best overall EOT ever...do you think they were refering to the Shooting aspect only?

 

<SNIP>

 

And Buckey, the move didn't have anything to do with CA politics.

 

Phantom...who apparently is a poor supporter of SASS.

 

Wow - seems a mite harsh all around . . . and that probably tells a lot of us who've never been that we might just never be . . . .

 

Everything I hear is that it used to be fun - used to draw an audience - used to be a good party, used to be good to go to -

now it serves the vanity of a few old guys - and the folks who will go with whatever they're served cause they call it riding for the brand . . . .

 

Nobody has been able to write an after action report that makes me want to ever go there . . . .

 

Other matches do that - I can read about the great facility, the great fun, the awesome stages, etc. etc. . . EOT seems to draw nothing but

angst because it's no longer about the fun of CAS, it's just another for-profit enterprise run without enough effort to make even Walt Disney happy . . . .

 

ah well - there's still WR, and so many other events run by caring CAS shooters who know how to have fun . . . .

 

YMMV,

 

Shadow (who's just a local player) Catcher

[Madd Mike #8595]

Gee Mike...why the hostilities?

 

Best overall EOT ever...do you think they were refering to the Shooting aspect only?

 

 

And Buckey, the move didn't have anything to do with CA politics.

 

Phantom...who apparently is a poor supporter of SASS.

 

I did NOT mean to be hostile

the multi black buckel winner said he was rating EOT as a whole

and he knows entertainment as well as shootin

geeeeeese

 

good luck with the store

Texas rocks from what I hear

[Tuco Taveras SASS#79313]

Howdy Hacker,

 

I got the rotating part. I was merely responding to your question concerning club capabilities: The Cowboys offer up a West Coast facility for future rotation.

 

 

Hacker, SASS #55963, on 27 June 2011 - 05:02 PM, said:

 

How many local clubs could handle a match of that size by themselves?

 

How many local clubs could handle a match of that size with help from SASS HQ (Or whatever)?

Would SASS HQ (or whatever) help?

 

Part of the above question is not only whether the local club but the local economy, transportation, hotels, RV parking etc could handle it.

Could there be a more expensive place to go than Kalifornia???????Maybe hold it in New York city????Any place else got a more friendly gun laws group?????Maybe the EOT should be held in Pakistan??????The logic for moving EOT is why california is in the condition it is....That's way alot of pards are leaving there pronto!!!!!Tuco.