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Pyrodex RS


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Had my first trials with Pyrodex RS in my shotgun this past weekend. Went with it instead of my usual 777 loads due to the volume used and the cost difference.

 

I'd read all the horror stories about how it would rust out bores if not cleaned up immediately.

Shot on Saturday, finally cleaned on Monday, expecting the worst.

Ran a swab soaked with hot water & dish detergent & washer fluid downbore; dry patch; final pass with one soaked in WD-40 & Mobil 1 synthetic grease.

 

Nice & shiny, no rust.

 

I think the tales of rampant corrosion and barrel destruction are somewhat overblown.

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I've been shooting Pyrodex RS and other grade for over 20 years without any problems whatsoever

 

If you clean the firearm using WATER (hot if you can get it that way) and then DRY things well, it will dissolve and carry away any residue from the Pyrodex that can pull moisture out of the air and cause rust.

 

After thigs are DRY, a light coating of vegetable oil will prevent any rust.

 

Other solvents will not do as well.

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Used Pyrodex, followed by Ballistol and water for years. No complaints.

 

Welcome to the enlightened minority!

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Used Pyrodex, followed by Ballistol and water for years. No complaints.

 

Welcome to the enlightened minority!

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Captain, Pyrodex formulation contains potassium perchlorate. During powder combustion the potassium perchlorate releases oxygen to support additional combustion. The potassium perchlorate then becomes potassium chloride.

With Pyrodex combustion, the minute crystals of potassium chloride are widely scattered over the surfaces of the bore. Given high humidity, the crystals become wet and rapid metal corrosion may occur.

Sprinkle some crystals of potassium chloride onto an unprotected steel plate. Pitting of the surface of the steel will occur in less than an hour if the humidity is high enough to cause wetting of the crystals’ surfaces. Pyrodex residue will act in the same manner.

 

Other uses of potassium chloride:

* Is used as the third of a three-drug combination in lethal injection

* Is used as a flux for the gas welding of aluminum

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I think the tales of rampant corrosion and barrel destruction are somewhat overblown.

 

Well, based on my experience with Pyrodex being the only BP or sub that has ever resulted in rusted guns for me after good cleaning practices, I think the tales of corrosion with Pyrodex are NOT STRONGLY ENOUGH STATED. +1 for John Boy's conclusions. All the subs are better than Pyrodex for what we are doing, and BP is cheaper and much less trouble to get cleaned up well.

 

I guess someone has to buy that product. Really glad it's not me.

 

Good luck, GJ

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I've had nothing but good luck with Pyrodex P and R/S in the past through present as well. I now use it as a cartridge powder with great success as well. I do clean my shooters usually as soon as I get home, not out of force but just out of habit. I did/do the same thing with smokeless powders. Smithy.

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I agree Capt. I've used Pyrodex before and didn't notice anything bad when I cleaned it. The only thing I don't like about Pyrodex is there's no flame!!!!!:lol: Good shootin with ya Sat. Rye

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Howdy Rye!

 

Yeah, it was a good shoot at Tusco last week. Good seeing you and everyone else too, especially after that brutal winter.

We had plenty of humidity too - at one point it was falling out of the sky in quarter-sized drops. :lol:

 

I didn't notice much muzzle flash either. Not like those thumper loads of yours!

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Had my first trials with Pyrodex RS in my shotgun this past weekend. Went with it instead of my usual 777 loads due to the volume used and the cost difference.

 

I'd read all the horror stories about how it would rust out bores if not cleaned up immediately.

Shot on Saturday, finally cleaned on Monday, expecting the worst.

Ran a swab soaked with hot water & dish detergent & washer fluid downbore; dry patch; final pass with one soaked in WD-40 & Mobil 1 synthetic grease.

 

Nice & shiny, no rust.

 

I think the tales of rampant corrosion and barrel destruction are somewhat overblown.

 

I too shot Pyrodex RS for years in my shotgun without any problems. Then it happened, rust. And, not just a little here and there, but rust big time. The only thing that changed was that I was shooting in the rain. By the time I gut back to camp from the match it was too late.

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Pyrodex is an absolutely last resort for me. My personal experience is that it is far, far more corrosive than any other sub or black powder.

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I shoot RS in my shotgun for economic reasons only. Got a heck of a buy.

I let my rifle and pistols, shot with FFg, go until I get around to cleaning but clean the shotgun immediately and have a pad of 0000 steel wool handy to knock the flash rust off. If it were not so cheap, no way I would shoot it.

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I don't know, maybe if I'd been brought up with something different I'd be shooting that instead, but Pyrodex was the first and only black powder sub I have ever shot and it has always worked for me. I guess I answered my own question. When I started shooting black powder, Pyrodex WAS the only sub out there. Oh well, old habits die hard I guess. Smithy.

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From Hodgdon's web site:

 

"Pyrodex does produce a corrosive residue from combustion. Even though this fouling is softer than the fouling produced by blackpowder, firearms should be cleaned after each use. Hodgdon Powder Co. recommends the use of natural cleaning solvents."

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Pyrodex is banned from my reloading table. I give away or dump out a bottle if I happen to get one. I found that I could clean my guns and put them away clean and come back to them a week later covered in rust. I almost lost a shotgun after it had sat for a month.

 

Climate makes a difference, but only in the time it takes. I did okay in Utah, but Florida was a different story.

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Maybe it dosen't burn as hot, but in my SG it dosen't leave the melted plastic "snake" like the real stuff does. I shoot all the Pyrodex I get handed in the SG because it's easy to clean and it's FREE! Usually use Murphy's mix and Ballistol right after a match. Heard too many horror stories about Pyrodex, and it cleans the easiest of all smokey powder. It smells funny to me, also.

 

CR

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Well...just using it ONCE and then coming to the conclusion that Pyrodex isn't THAT corrosive is NOT a scientific way to conclude anything. :mellow:

 

Give it time..I can GUARENTEE you'll end up with rust sooner AND later. :ph34r:

 

 

777 is the way to go...WATER clean-up and you can actually not be concerned about cleaning your guns like you do with any other smokeless powder. :excl:

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Will it rust and pitting happen? One way to find out:

1. Uncleaned shotgun (easier to look down the tubes) ;)

2. Open bathroom door - lean the shotgun near the shower

3. Turn the shower on - HOT water only

4. Steam the dickens out of the bathroom

5. Close the door - walk out

Repeat #3 to #5 every 12 hours for 2 days ... if the potassium chloride did it's job:

SASS CLASSIFIEDS - Cheap: One Slightly Damp Shotgun Used in Pyrodex Test :P

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If you take care of your guns like you should, you won't have a problem.

 

Besides that...lots of places you can't get real BP (BP is always the choice if available of course)

and Pyrodex is almost always cheaper (even usually cheaper than the other subs) most places and nearly universally available almost anywhere.

 

Some of us don't always have a choice. We get along with what we can get to shoot with at the

least cost.

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John Boy is right. I had used Pryodex many times in my muzzleloaders with nary a problem... But, after several years, I did notice that after cleaning one day, they'd need cleaning again the next... usually for about 3 days running, before a clean patch could be run thru them consistently. My turning point came in the spring of 1991, I packed up the guns in the bed of my p/u for a trip to CA to EOT. The Mrs. drove the p/u and trailer as I had to fly out several days later... When I arrived at camp, I unpacked the guns for the festivities... The only gun that I'd used Pyrodex in a couple of days before the trip was my Sharps... It was cleaned thoroughly before being placed in it's case... TWICE. But, when I unpacked the guns, the soft cases for two guns were damp, from rain that had gotted in under the camper shell and was held in the carpeting, soaking thru the outside of the case. No problems of any kind with my shotgun or my '73 (I shot them with BP only). The Sharps was in a hard case, one I thought was water tight, but although the outside was dry, the foam inside was damp from high humidity. Yes, there was a little surface rust on the barrel... but a bit of rubbing with a penny took it right off, leaving the bluing and hasn't returned. But... the inside of the barrel was a different story... it wasn't pitted, but it was hob working that barrel with copper wool to get the rust out.

 

No thanks, I won't even GIVE any Pyrodex I'm given or win away to someone else. Yes, I use it in my BP shotshells, clean thoroughly and often... but I WILL NOT ever use it in a rifled arm again.

 

Later that year, I heard the explanation John Boy gave from 3 of the then top BPCR Silhouette shooters at the Nationals when I told my tale, asking if they had an explanation. One of them stated that he would never say so in writing, (a career thing I'm sure), but the other two have told the same story ever since.

 

If you're inclined (or restricted by ordinances) to use only subs... use Triple 7. Me, I'll stick to the OP (original powder).

 

Oh yeah, if Pyrodex was the "cure-all" it was initially claimed to be, do you really think it would be cheaper than the other subs or real BP? Not on your life. Don't kid yourself.

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If you take care of your guns like you should, you won't have a problem.

 

Besides that...lots of places you can't get real BP (BP is always the choice if available of course)

and Pyrodex is almost always cheaper (even usually cheaper than the other subs) most places and nearly universally available almost anywhere.

 

Some of us don't always have a choice. We get along with what we can get to shoot with at the least cost.

 

That's the only reason I decided to use it. I use 777 in all my cartridge loads, but at 65 grains per shotshell a pound disappears pretty fast. I think I got about 160 shells per pound loaded.

 

The Pyro RS was about $10 cheaper. And nobody within a reasonable distance carries BP around here due to the hassles of having to maintain a bombproof storage magazine for it.

 

The last step in my cleaning regimen is the WD-40 & Mobil 1 synthetic grease swabbing. Besides providing a barrier to rust, I've found it also makes getting wad snot - the plastic snake - out of the bores a breeze.

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And nobody within a reasonable distance carries BP around here due to the hassles of having to maintain a bombproof storage magazine for it.

 

So, almost nobody shooting BP gets if from a local dealer anymore. It is ordered from Powder Inc, Track of the Wolf, Grafs, Maine Powder House, and several other vendors. (It has turned out to be better to let knowledgeable national vendors provide the safe storage and handling than try to teach most local gun shop owners how to store a stock of Black Powder, even though it is usually simple enough to do.)

 

I don't let that small inconvenience get in the way of shooting real BP. Besides, it's usually cheaper than Pyrodex, too, as well as shooting and cleaning so much better.

 

As you have found out now, each frontier cartridge type shooter has their own reasons for the powder(s) they use. No need to try to convert us to your way of thinking. :lol:

 

If you are happy with it, I'm happy for you. But I won't be happy if that is all we have available to shoot at some time in the future. I'll continue to support the manufacturers and vendors of the stuff with some heritage, boom, flash, smoke and smell.

 

Good luck, GJ

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777 is the way to go...WATER clean-up and you can actually not be concerned about cleaning your guns like you do with any other smokeless powder.

Long Jim ... let's set the record straight. Triple Seven is a modified formulation of Pyrodex and I must respectfully disagree one needs to have no concern about cleaning firearms as with those shot with nitro based smokeless powders!

 

Both Pyrodex and Triple Seven are comprised of sodium benzoate, dicyandiamide, potassium perchlorate and potassium nitrate. The major difference Triple Seven has no sulfur in the product formula.

 

As explained previously, Potassium Nitrate perchlorate creates Potassium Chloride when ignited. And the foul when combined with humidity (oxygen in the air) creates rusting and pitting on steel. The rust and corrosion is the result of electrolytic activity between the chloride salt and the iron in the steel. As such, “electrolytic cells” are formed on the surface of the bore. The cells are individual crystals of the chloride salt scattered randomly over the surface of the steel. As the relative humidity rises, the clumps of residue becomes wet. At this point you have the individual beads of water setting up numerous electrolytic cells on the surface of the steel. The chloride solution that makes up each individual bead becomes a galvanic cell. The solution will literally dissolve the iron atom by atom. Ferric chloride is formed. Where the bead of water is exposed to air, the ferric chloride breaks down to form iron oxide.

 

We know the common name for iron oxide to be RUST! And continued exposure of rust to humidity forms PITS!

 

Bottom Line: One cannot shoot either Triple Seven or Pyrodex and then put the firearm aside for periods of time without cleaning like folks do with nitro based smokeless powders!

 

And if you don't believe this to be the common properties of chemical reactions... do the 'Bathroom Test' with your favorite shotgun that was shot with Triple Seven

 

I want to Thank the most authoritative US source person for educating me about substitute and black powders - Bill Knight, aka the Mad Monk, Dutch Bill and e Ogre. His extensive scientific analytical testing of these powders over a period of many years has provided me with the knowledge of 'What's In The Can" for the subs and original gunpowder!

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