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Buckaroo Bubba

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The good news is he's moving. The bad news is maybe somewhere near you. I thought his post was just made in ignorance of how the PRVC barrier is constructed. And CVR's 8-10' high 12' thick solid dirt berms? Not good enough for him?

Well, adios.

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Guest Texas Jack Black

Just to test this theory of safety. two pc 3/4 plywood with 8" of packed dirt in between .Winchester rifle 24"barrel full load of BP 250 grain RNFP shot at 3' bullet fully penetrated an headed down range. Dirt was free of rocks and dry. Tried again with dirt wet round penetrated through one layer of plywood and came to rest against second layer. Results you be the judge Try it yourself.

 

I stopped as I have to go pick up the Grand kids from school.

 

 

T J B

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Three Fingered Dutchman, send me a new membership application... even though I'm knee deep in memberships right now, and can't make it to a lot of your matches, I would like to be an official part of this OUTSTANDING Cowboy group. In 20 yrs at this game I've never been to a match that I enjoyed any more than the matches I've attended at PRVC. You know me.... if I had thought things were unsafe, I would have told you and then departed. You, and the entire PRVC do an excellent job of putting on a safe match, a fun match, and you really make folks feel welcome.

 

I hope that they shut down this thread because I don't want PRVC to get any more publicity.... it's just perfect the way it is and I don't want the secrect to get out!

 

Snakebite

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It's funny to see how quickly the Wire folk are to sway one way or the other. And to not believe that one of their "good ol' boys/girls" could conduct business with a less than safe set up. But I tell you for a fact, take another look at this picture http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/ This is in fact the unloading side of a paired loading/unloading table set up. Now admittingly I did not bring out my tape measure and scope things out to the nth degree, but there are things that you can obviously tell by looking at this picture. If the vertical wall indeed has 8" to a foot of packed earth between two sheets of 3/4" ply (maybe with steel inbetween), just imagine the weight. Then with the weight in mind, look for ANY kind of support from the ground. There is NONE! PERIOD! The trash can is just about where you would see such vertical support for such a weight load and there is absolutely nothing to be found at all. You can also see by the photo that this dividing wall does not go below the table height and therefore offers absolutely NO protection for an angled revolver/rifle discharge that could certainly take out a knee cap, leg, or foot. Back to the weight issue, if there was all that dirt and maybe steel in the middle, look at the minimal support that is offered at the opposing ends of the table. With that much supposed weight, that table would snap like a toothpick in no time at all. Yet it seems to stand on its own just fine. Must be some pretty strong wood. Wish my house were made of that strong of wood! All I ask is take into mind what has been proposed as to the make up of the loading/unloading table set ups and then take a real close look at http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/ and see how exactly is that possible? For the table bearing the weight alone I'm sure you can deduce that it can't really happen with the wood used in the existing design. Sincerely, Smithy.

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There were other ways to deal with this than naming names on an international forum, something I never did.

 

Good luck at your new club, you'll need it.

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Three Fingered Dutchman, send me a new membership application... even though I'm knee deep in memberships right now, and can't make it to a lot of your matches, I would like to be an official part of this OUTSTANDING Cowboy group. In 20 yrs at this game I've never been to a match that I enjoyed any more than the matches I've attended at PRVC. You know me.... if I had thought things were unsafe, I would have told you and then departed. You, and the entire PRVC do an excellent job of putting on a safe match, a fun match, and you really make folks feel welcome.

 

I hope that they shut down this thread because I don't want PRVC to get any more publicity.... it's just perfect the way it is and I don't want the secrect to get out!

 

Snakebite

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On the way! As you can see, he is still at it. I do hope someone warns whatever club he shoots at when he moves that he likes to cause trouble.

See ya at CVR Sunday.

A question was asked, and I simply provided an answer and NOW you all take offense to it? Shame on you. And Fillmore Coffins, I'm not sure how I crossed you but I'm sorry. You were always a friend to me. Dirty Sally and Three Fingered Dutchman, same with you all. You showed nothing but kindness when I showed up to shoot and I'm sorry if what I've said seems offensive. Again, with Phantoms query I was simply answering a question to my fullest. I guess the next time I'll just keep my mouth shut and not shoot at that given range ever again (kinda like I was doing all along). I get drawn into an unwinable position with the "Give me the club....Give me the club" And initially not wanting to, finally relenting and giving the name of the club "Fillmore" and it backfired in spades. I've learned a valuable lesson. Do not get lulled into those unwinable situations ever again. Smithy.

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A question was asked, and I simply provided an answer and NOW you all take offense to it? Shame on you. And Fillmore Coffins, I'm not sure how I crossed you but I'm sorry. You were always a friend to me. Dirty Sally and Three Fingered Dutchman, same with you all. You showed nothing but kindness when I showed up to shoot and I'm sorry if what I've said seems offensive. Again, with Phantoms query I was simply answering a question to my fullest. I guess the next time I'll just keep my mouth shut and not shoot at that given range ever again (kinda like I was doing all along). I get drawn into an unwinable position with the "Give me the club....Give me the club" And initially not wanting to, finally relenting and giving the name of the club "Fillmore" and it backfired in spades. I've learned a valuable lesson. Do not get lulled into those unwinable situations ever again. Smithy.

The internet has changed many aspects of our lives.

 

Fillmore

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With 30 years of expertise, you'd think talking with folks face to face might be a start??? Fact is an AD is a bad thing no matter where it occurs! Seen it a few times during quarterly quals. and it ain't purty!!!

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A question was asked, and I simply provided an answer and NOW you all take offense to it? Shame on you. And Fillmore Coffins, I'm not sure how I crossed you but I'm sorry. You were always a friend to me. Dirty Sally and Three Fingered Dutchman, same with you all. You showed nothing but kindness when I showed up to shoot and I'm sorry if what I've said seems offensive. Again, with Phantoms query I was simply answering a question to my fullest. I guess the next time I'll just keep my mouth shut and not shoot at that given range ever again (kinda like I was doing all along). I get drawn into an unwinable position with the "Give me the club....Give me the club" And initially not wanting to, finally relenting and giving the name of the club "Fillmore" and it backfired in spades. I've learned a valuable lesson. Do not get lulled into those unwinable situations ever again. Smithy.

Smithy,

 

Just to set the record straight, I knew what Cowboy clubs you've shot from past posts. So, please don't blame someone else for lulling you into any kind of situation. The situation was brought on by your post "This scares the pudding out of me as the two ranges I currently have shot at (soon not to be as I am moving) position each stages loading and unloading tables together and facing each other and not towards any berm. So if the above happened at one of these two ranges someone quite possibly would have been shot!"

 

I've shot at one of those ranges and know they are safe. Others, including the president of the RO Committee, have vouched for the other club.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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Smithy,

 

Just to set the record straight, I knew what Cowboy clubs you've shot from past posts. So, please don't blame someone else for lulling you into any kind of situation. The situation was brought on by your post "This scares the pudding out of me as the two ranges I currently have shot at (soon not to be as I am moving) position each stages loading and unloading tables together and facing each other and not towards any berm. So if the above happened at one of these two ranges someone quite possibly would have been shot!"

 

I've shot at one of those ranges and know they are safe. Others, including the president of the RO Committee, have vouched for the other club.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

 

Have to agree with Allie Mo on this Smitty

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I also have my doubts about this story. Misinformation such as this creates more harm than good. Without knowing the exact cause of the discharge it is not possibile to say which safety rules were violated.

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Just to set the record straight, I knew what Cowboy clubs you've shot from past posts. So, please don't blame someone else for lulling you into any kind of situation. The situation was brought on by your post "This scares the pudding out of me as the two ranges I currently have shot at (soon not to be as I am moving) position each stages loading and unloading tables together and facing each other and not towards any berm. So if the above happened at one of these two ranges someone quite possibly would have been shot!"

 

I've shot at one of those ranges and know they are safe. Others, including the president of the RO Committee, have vouched for the other club.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

Ok now it is I that started it all. Fine. I'll take that. And I still firmly believe everything that I have posted otherwise I would not have posted it. I have had other Wire experience where other posters have all but called me a liar for stating personal experience stating that I did not know what I was talking about. I would comment on a firearm that I personally owned or a California law that directly impacted me or similar situation that I had direct knowledge of giving me the upper hand of knowledge in posting on the Wire. Yet I get lambasted as the ignorant one not knowing what I was talking about. I KNOW WHAT I SAW AT THE RANGE! And I will stand by my assessment of it. You others can throw your barbs as you see fit but that will never take away the truth in what I saw. People with potentially loaded guns leveled at each other. Now go ahead and badmouth me and justify that condition as you see fit. Smithy.

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Ok now it is I that started it all. Fine. I'll take that. And I still firmly believe everything that I have posted otherwise I would not have posted it. I have had other Wire experience where other posters have all but called me a liar for stating personal experience stating that I did not know what I was talking about. I would comment on a firearm that I personally owned or a California law that directly impacted me or similar situation that I had direct knowledge of giving me the upper hand of knowledge in posting on the Wire. Yet I get lambasted as the ignorant one not knowing what I was talking about. I KNOW WHAT I SAW AT THE RANGE! And I will stand by my assessment of it. You others can throw you barbs as you see fit but that will never take away the truth in what I saw. People with potentially loaded guns leveled at each other. Now go ahead and badmouth me and justify that condition as you see fit. Smithy.

 

You were very specific in your description of the layout: The loading and unloading tables butted up and facing each other with a vertical sheet of 1/2" CDX ply inbetween the two

 

This is not correct.

 

Believe it or not, there are folks here on the Wire and in this Game that have some real good, real life experience.

:FlagAm:

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And there you are Phantom. Waiting in the background, lurking in the bushes, behind the berms for the next unsuspecting victim of your acid filled verbal attacks. Who will it be? You really don't care. Certainly not one of the good ol' boys, but newbies? You bet! Excellent fodder for you and your twisted sense of pleasure to snipe at and belittle in a fashion only bested by Phantom himself. 1/2" CDX or 3/4" CDX can you imagine the historical errors to be had with just a quarter of an inch? Monumental at the very least. Hope must be held out for the spell checker because Heaven help the newbies if just one word is misspelled because the entire context of the post will be invalid and thrown out because of it. Although I do recall stating that I did not bring my tape measure and scope out everything to the nth degree or maybe that part of my posting was overlooked. Smithy.

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And there you are Phantom. Waiting in the background, lurking in the bushes, behind the berms for the next unsuspecting victim of your acid filled verbal attacks. Who will it be? You really don't care. Certainly not one of the good ol' boys, but newbies? You bet! Excellent fodder for you and your twisted sense of pleasure to snipe at and belittle in a fashion only bested by Phantom himself. 1/2" CDX or 3/4" CDX can you imagine the historical errors to be had with just a quarter of an inch? Monumental at the very least. Hope must be held out for the spell checker because Heaven help the newbies if just one word is misspelled because the entire context of the post will be invalid and thrown out because of it. Although I do recall stating that I did not bring my tape measure and scope out everything to the nth degree or maybe that part of my posting was overlooked. Smithy.

 

You're more then welcome to disclose my snipes...belittles...or any other little thing that you think I've done on this thread.

 

The fact is, that your description was wrong. 1/2 or 3/4 or 7/8"...this is not the facts that I was pointing to. The fact that you left out...and implied didn't exist, is the fact that there's more to the design then just plywood.

 

Nice uncalled for attack on me...how sad.

 

PS: Keep working on the Paragraph concept.

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To Three Fingered Dutchman and Dirty Sally (for the most obvious of reasons) and members of the PRVC. To members of the CVR. To Phantom (for me continuing our unnecessary battle of words). To Allie Mo (for being curt with my responses to you). To Fillmore Coffins (for what ended up being a personal attack on your two favorite clubs). To Buckaroo Bubba (for the outright theft of your thread). And finally to SASS and Wire members in general (for my arrogance in ranting and raving about something that 1. I didn't have the straight scoop on and 2. should have kept my trap shut about). I offer my sincere and humble apologies to all. I was in the wrong and am sorry for any heartache I caused any of you all in the process of my rambling in this thread. Again I am truly sorry for what I have said and apologize for the hurt it has caused. Smithy.

 

I was at the computer on the Wire late last evening (past bedtime) and my wife and family heard me raise my voice and get rather animated for then, about the fourth or fifth time. I did not notice my wife's entrance into the room where I was at and she began reading over my shoulder. She only had to say one thing to change my whole outlook on things and that was "So that's how a Christian posts on the Wire?". Earlier in this thread Filthy Lucre had correctly stated that I had not been to too many matches at CVR since they shoot on Sundays and that I attend church. He was correct and my wife's statement cut to the bone. I thought about my life and how I was acting and knew I was most definitely in the wrong.

 

If I saw anything that I thought could possibly be an issue at PRVC, then I should have asked either Three Fingered Dutchman or Dirty Sally right then and there period. End of story. That is the only way it should have ever played out. So I was in the wrong for two years now and I'm sorry for it. Same with CVR. I should have made contact with site management right then and there. Period.

 

Then comes the aspect of airing two year old (unfounded) concerns on the Wire (which should not have been done) and to add fuel to the fire, not letting it drop. Every time I was challenged I jumped on board and went for another round making a bad situation much worse. Again I must apologize for my actions.

 

I don't know if any of you can understand my original motives (they by all means were not malicious in spite of how it looks), but I do hope you are able to find it in your hearts a chance to forgive me for this apparent lack of common sense. I do love this sport and the people that make it up and it kills me to think of what I have done (relationship wise) just to try to be right even though I was still very wrong. Sincerely yours, Smithy.

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Wow, I have never seen the likes of name calling and rude comments from what I truely believe are very professional and nice people........is this what our sport is becoming.........and if you have a problem with safety anywhere please speak up before participating, I have never shot at a club where I believed the set-up was unsafe........and if I observed such I would get in my truck and leave.......by the way, there are two kind of shooters........those that have had an AD and those that may have one in the future.......keep them pointed in a safe direction......

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To Three Fingered Dutchman and Dirty Sally (for the most obvious of reasons) and members of the PRVC. To members of the CVR. To Phantom (for me continuing our unnecessary battle of words). To Allie Mo (for being curt with my responses to you). To Fillmore Coffins (for what ended up being a personal attack on your two favorite clubs). To Buckaroo Bubba (for the outright theft of your thread). And finally to SASS and Wire members in general (for my arrogance in ranting and raving about something that 1. I didn't have the straight scoop on and 2. should have kept my trap shut about). I offer my sincere and humble apologies to all. I was in the wrong and am sorry for any heartache I caused any of you all in the process of my rambling in this thread. Again I am truly sorry for what I have said and apologize for the hurt it has caused. Smithy.

 

I was at the computer on the Wire late last evening (past bedtime) and my wife and family heard me raise my voice and get rather animated for then, about the fourth or fifth time. I did not notice my wife's entrance into the room where I was at and she began reading over my shoulder. She only had to say one thing to change my whole outlook on things and that was "So that's how a Christian posts on the Wire?". Earlier in this thread Filthy Lucre had correctly stated that I had not been to too many matches at CVR since they shoot on Sundays and that I attend church. He was correct and my wife's statement cut to the bone. I thought about my life and how I was acting and knew I was most definitely in the wrong.

 

If I saw anything that I thought could possibly be an issue at PRVC, then I should have asked either Three Fingered Dutchman or Dirty Sally right then and there period. End of story. That is the only way it should have ever played out. So I was in the wrong for two years now and I'm sorry for it. Same with CVR. I should have made contact with site management right then and there. Period.

 

Then comes the aspect of airing two year old (unfounded) concerns on the Wire (which should not have been done) and to add fuel to the fire, not letting it drop. Every time I was challenged I jumped on board and went for another round making a bad situation much worse. Again I must apologize for my actions.

 

I don't know if any of you can understand my original motives (they by all means were not malicious in spite of how it looks), but I do hope you are able to find it in your hearts a chance to forgive me for this apparent lack of common sense. I do love this sport and the people that make it up and it kills me to think of what I have done (relationship wise) just to try to be right even though I was still very wrong. Sincerely yours, Smithy.

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Hi Smithy,

 

I didn't feel your comments to me were particularly curt. Guess I've been insulted by experts. :unsure:;):lol:

 

Anyway, it takes a big man to soul search and publicly apologize as you did. Your post shows that you have tried to understand all of the reasons folks took issue with your comments and accepted them as constructive instead of just insults. B)

 

Thank you and apology accepted.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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Wow, I have never seen the likes of name calling and rude comments from what I truely believe are very professional and nice people........is this what our sport is becoming.........and if you have a problem with safety anywhere please speak up before participating, I have never shot at a club where I believed the set-up was unsafe........and if I observed such I would get in my truck and leave.......by the way, there are two kind of shooters........those that have had an AD and those that may have one in the future.......keep them pointed in a safe direction......

 

Har! This is nuthin. You shoulda seen the ole Political Fire. Now that was some crazy stuff, Death threats, profanity, etc. This is pretty mild.

Not good.......but pretty mild in comparison. :blink:;)

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So many wrong words are spoken in place of the right ones and become obstacles on the road ahead. Dammit

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To Three Fingered Dutchman and Dirty Sally (for the most obvious of reasons) and members of the PRVC. To members of the CVR. To Phantom (for me continuing our unnecessary battle of words). To Allie Mo (for being curt with my responses to you). To Fillmore Coffins (for what ended up being a personal attack on your two favorite clubs). To Buckaroo Bubba (for the outright theft of your thread). And finally to SASS and Wire members in general (for my arrogance in ranting and raving about something that 1. I didn't have the straight scoop on and 2. should have kept my trap shut about). I offer my sincere and humble apologies to all. I was in the wrong and am sorry for any heartache I caused any of you all in the process of my rambling in this thread. Again I am truly sorry for what I have said and apologize for the hurt it has caused. Smithy.

 

I was at the computer on the Wire late last evening (past bedtime) and my wife and family heard me raise my voice and get rather animated for then, about the fourth or fifth time. I did not notice my wife's entrance into the room where I was at and she began reading over my shoulder. She only had to say one thing to change my whole outlook on things and that was "So that's how a Christian posts on the Wire?". Earlier in this thread Filthy Lucre had correctly stated that I had not been to too many matches at CVR since they shoot on Sundays and that I attend church. He was correct and my wife's statement cut to the bone. I thought about my life and how I was acting and knew I was most definitely in the wrong.

 

If I saw anything that I thought could possibly be an issue at PRVC, then I should have asked either Three Fingered Dutchman or Dirty Sally right then and there period. End of story. That is the only way it should have ever played out. So I was in the wrong for two years now and I'm sorry for it. Same with CVR. I should have made contact with site management right then and there. Period.

 

Then comes the aspect of airing two year old (unfounded) concerns on the Wire (which should not have been done) and to add fuel to the fire, not letting it drop. Every time I was challenged I jumped on board and went for another round making a bad situation much worse. Again I must apologize for my actions.

 

I don't know if any of you can understand my original motives (they by all means were not malicious in spite of how it looks), but I do hope you are able to find it in your hearts a chance to forgive me for this apparent lack of common sense. I do love this sport and the people that make it up and it kills me to think of what I have done (relationship wise) just to try to be right even though I was still very wrong. Sincerely yours, Smithy.

 

You do not owe me an apology but as I have said on this forum in the past. DO NOT insult my friends who are some very fine people, better than me.

 

You have offered several opinions and advice here without ever completing a match, sometimes your opinions have been countered by every other poster in the thread.

 

I have been doing this for 17 years and I am still very careful when offering advice but I advise you to be to be careful in the future unless you are ABSOLUTELY certain about the advice or opinions you offer.

 

Nuff said.

 

Fillmore

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  • 2 weeks later...

PS Here are photos of loading tables at one of Smithy's clubs. In the one where I'm loading, I was facing a berm. In the background, you can see the berm on the other side of the stage.

 

Cool hat Miss Allie ........great loading table .....they would never survive the rain up here .( that carpet is the bee's knees).......nice lookin range also

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