Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Safety Rules worked


Buckaroo Bubba

Recommended Posts

When I reload, I put the rounds in the box after looking for split cases ( rifle only, my Ruger pistols don't care), and with them in the plastic box, you can sight across the top of them and see a high primer pretty easily. But I agree with most posting here, something about this don't seem right. As for Smitty's story, I'd go home, I wouldn't let the best shooter I know load his guns across a table pointed at me....

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 101
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Remember folks, anytime you have an AD, just holler, "Dang high primers! Thank God for the safety regs!!" and all will be forgiven. <_<:P

Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember folks, anytime you have an AD, just holler, "Dang high primers! Thank God for the safety regs!!" and all will be forgiven. <_<:P

 

+1

 

In the 15 years that I have been shooting prior to getting involved in CAS, I have never heard of a high primer. In the 3 months since I have been involved in CAS, I have heard high primers being blamed for everything from pistol FTF's, rifle jams, and now an accidental discharge. What are you guys doing to get all of these high primers?

 

Uh-oh! I probably jinxed myself now. I'm sure to have an infamous high primer gun malfunction at the next match...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you saying that they have freshly loaded guns...and guns that have just be used on a stage that may still have a live round in them...facing each other?????

 

I don't believe it...

Hi Phantom,

 

I've shot with one of those clubs and did not see anything like he mentions. Also, the other folks shooting at both clubs would know better. He may have left out the part about a berm being between the tables. :unsure: In my profile picture (not avatar), I am shooting at one of those clubs and you can see a tall berm to my left.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've shot at the second range a few times...won the John Wayne shoot there in '07, Rules Committee members shoot there...many multi-time overall champions shoot there...and I can promise you that you're misrepresenting the set up there.

 

They are 100% safe...

 

:FlagAm:

 

 

Hmmm...I looked at both club's websites, and if you run thru the images, there does appear to be an arrangement like the one Smithy describes at one stage at the first club....covered table with longuns laid out, with vertical plywood barrier "downrange", and part of a table visible on the other side of the barrier (with some folks over there, but I can't tell what they are doing)....anybody on here that belongs to this club? Can you give us a better read?

 

 

LL

Link to post
Share on other sites

This has got to be a joke...come on!

 

One club in CA has what might look like a plywood barrier between a Loading and Unloading table...but if you would actually take the time to find out the fact you would find that there is a foot between the barriers and between them is a very hard and solid substance to prevent rounds from going through it.

 

Do you folks on here actually believe that there are people stoopid enough to put nothing but a sheet of plywood between a Loading and Unloading table???

 

Really???????

 

OY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm...I looked at both club's websites, and if you run thru the images, there does appear to be an arrangement like the one Smithy describes at one stage at the first club....covered table with longuns laid out, with vertical plywood barrier "downrange", and part of a table visible on the other side of the barrier (with some folks over there, but I can't tell what they are doing)....anybody on here that belongs to this club? Can you give us a better read?

 

 

LL

Hi LL,

 

Would you post a link, please.

 

Thanks,

 

AM

Link to post
Share on other sites

This has got to be a joke...come on!

 

One club in CA has what might look like a plywood barrier between a Loading and Unloading table...but if you would actually take the time to find out the fact you would find that there is a foot between the barriers and between them is a very hard and solid substance to prevent rounds from going through it.

 

Do you folks on here actually believe that there are people stoopid enough to put nothing but a sheet of plywood between a Loading and Unloading table???

 

Really???????

 

OY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

Well...not being there, I asked someone with first-hand knowledge to clarify...I have no knowledge of what the materials are, what is between them, or what the actual use of the table is (or for that matter, what the IQ of the designer is) - OY!

 

Allie Mo - the photos are at

You need to look through about thirty or so, and then you'll see a shot with a female shooter in the foreground and a table on the left, grey with a white vertical barrier

 

LL

Link to post
Share on other sites

IF this is a loading and unloading setup that is Back to Back I would not feel comfortable. I don't care what you put between the plywood. What would happen if a round from a pistol is discharged through the table at a 45deg angle? I know photos can not tell the whole story and it would be interesting to get clairification. I find it hard to believe that any SASS club would allow something crzy like Smithy describes.

 

Photo

 

LL is right, You have to scan through the photos to find the nice looking gal with her long guns set on the table.

 

Rowdy

 

Well...not being there, I asked someone with first-hand knowledge to clarify...I have no knowledge of what the materials are, what is between them, or what the actual use of the table is (or for that matter, what the IQ of the designer is) - OY!

 

Allie Mo - the photos are at

You need to look through about thirty or so, and then you'll see a shot with a female shooter in the foreground and a table on the left, grey with a white vertical barrier

 

LL

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks LL,

 

I haven't been to that club. I think I saw the photo you were talking about. However, I'm not sure what the exact situation was.

 

I also emailed someone at the club as I am incredulous about the stated situation, especially as the TG for both clubs has been shooting way longer than I have and as Phantom implied, many experienced shooters shoot there, including the President of the ROC.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

Link to post
Share on other sites

IF this is a loading and unloading setup that is Back to Back I would not feel comfortable. I don't care what you put between the plywood. What would happen if a round from a pistol is discharged through the table at a 45deg angle?

 

Photo

Rowdy

 

 

The photo is labled "Starlight Belle"

http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/

 

Look at the ground under the table tell me what you see? I would hope that the barrier is heavy as Phantom says. Maybe someone from the club will chime in...

 

Edited to include: I don't believe for a second it is just a piece of plywood!

 

Olen

Link to post
Share on other sites

IF this is a loading and unloading setup that is Back to Back I would not feel comfortable. I don't care what you put between the plywood. What would happen if a round from a pistol is discharged through the table at a 45deg angle? I know photos can not tell the whole story and it would be interesting to get clairification. I find it hard to believe that any SASS club would allow something crzy like Smithy describes.

 

Photo

 

LL is right, You have to scan through the photos to find the nice looking gal with her long guns set on the table.

 

Rowdy

 

I take it you're not an engineer.

 

Excuse me while I go put on my padded suit...ya never know...best be safe.

 

Fact is that these clubs aren't full of rediculassly stoopid people. The idea that folks here actually think that a club would do such a design scares me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Phantom, I will not respond to your assumtion!!!

 

I do see a large gap between the tables. But it would not make me happy if a round went off and dust was flying around my feet.

Like I said before, I cannot believe there would be an unsafe setup at any SASS club. Picture do not tell the whole story.

 

 

Rowdy

 

I take it you're not an engineer.

 

Excuse me while I go put on my padded suit...ya never know...best be safe.

 

Fact is that these clubs aren't full of rediculassly stoopid people. The idea that folks here actually think that a club would do such a design scares me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Back on track to the original post.

 

If that bullet went THRU the loading table, it MOST ASSUREDLY went out the barrel. The story that a high primer went off while rotating the cylinder, just does not hold water. I'll bet a weeks wages that IF, someone had inspected the gun after the incident happened, AND BEFORE IT WAS TAMPERED WITH, there would have been found a primer with a firing pin strike.

 

I have nearly 60 years experience with firearms and reloading. There is no way it happened as he stated. There's much more to that story that isn't being told.

 

RBK

Link to post
Share on other sites

Smithy.... I shoot at both clubs, and have been a part of Chorro since the very early days.... I've never seen what you are describing. Yes.... at CVR the loading and unloading tables do indeed face each other..... but..................................... THEY ARE SEPARAGTED BY A 12 WIDE DIRT BERM!! You couldn't blow a 50 BMG round through it.

 

If I'm wrong, please take a photo and show me... I guarantee that if it is the case, that it will be IMMEDIATLY corrected.

 

Snakebite

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I regret even starting this topic... If I knew CSI was going to want to investigate I would have asked more questions, examined the gun, etc... I didn't know anyone was going to take this topic for more than what it was for, as an example of the safety rules working. I didn't see it happen. Maybe a high primer couldn't happen like that, I DON'T KNOW. Was just relaying what was told to me after the fact. I was just glad everyone was okay. Shooter got a match DQ. .. Didn't know I was going to get the third degree on what happened.

Link to post
Share on other sites

BB - don't take it personally, I think we're all just trying to understand so that we don't repeat it.

 

I think your post served it's purpose, it fostered discussion and increased awareness of safety at the loading table, and in general. And that is a good thing!

 

Grizz

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I regret even starting this topic... If I knew CSI was going to want to investigate I would have asked more questions, examined the gun, etc... I didn't know anyone was going to take this topic for more than what it was for, as an example of the safety rules working. I didn't see it happen. Maybe a high primer couldn't happen like that, I DON'T KNOW. Was just relaying what was told to me after the fact. I was just glad everyone was okay. Shooter got a match DQ. .. Didn't know I was going to get the third degree on what happened.

 

That will learn ya!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I regret even starting this topic... If I knew CSI was going to want to investigate I would have asked more questions, examined the gun, etc... I didn't know anyone was going to take this topic for more than what it was for, as an example of the safety rules working. I didn't see it happen. Maybe a high primer couldn't happen like that, I DON'T KNOW. Was just relaying what was told to me after the fact. I was just glad everyone was okay. Shooter got a match DQ. .. Didn't know I was going to get the third degree on what happened.

Howdy BB, no problem, no third degree, glad you brought it. Our layers of safety do work, if you haven't seen an AD at a Loading/Unloading table you will. I've seen two, both with the lever rifle, dropping the hammer on a live round. The only question here is how a high primer could cause this, and if so it would most likely be out of batter causing at least some lead fragments and or marks on the gun. Now we have to solve the case of the 1/2" CDX :D

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

Link to post
Share on other sites

Smithy, I would humbly suggest you get back on your medicine.

 

I am a regular shooter at both clubs. The Pozo club has 2 sheets of 3/4+ plywood with about 8" of packed dirt between the sheets. There is no way a SASS load will penetrate that. And it goes down past the top of the tables toward the ground a distance too. So a 45 degree discharge will not hit the folks on the other side.

 

And CVR has never had anything like that.EVER. I have been with that club since the very 1st match.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Smithy, I would humbly suggest you get back on your medicine.

 

I am a regular shooter at both clubs. The Pozo club has 2 sheets of 3/4+ plywood with about 8" of packed dirt between the sheets. There is no way a SASS load will penetrate that. And it goes down past the top of the tables toward the ground a distance too. So a 45 degree discharge will not hit the folks on the other side.

 

And CVR has never had anything like that.EVER. I have been with that club since the very 1st match.

If Cole Y says it it safe, take it to the bank. After all his work at EOT over he years and the Rules oversight he has experienced, none here can argue with Cole. I don't know how but after all that he is still a very nice guy!! GCK sometimes known by Cole as John Candy or Uncle Buck

Link to post
Share on other sites

Smithy, I would humbly suggest you get back on your medicine.

 

I am a regular shooter at both clubs. The Pozo club has 2 sheets of 3/4+ plywood with about 8" of packed dirt between the sheets. There is no way a SASS load will penetrate that. And it goes down past the top of the tables toward the ground a distance too. So a 45 degree discharge will not hit the folks on the other side.

 

And CVR has never had anything like that.EVER. I have been with that club since the very 1st match.

Ta Daaa!! :) Thanks Cole, I figured it had to be sumpin like that. At our range we have an 11" wall between the stages, 2-2x6 T&G with 8" of sand in between. At the Loading/Unloading tables there is also a 1/4" piece of steel in the center. We tested a wall section with hot .45 and .38, no round ever made it through the sand.

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've shot at the second range a few times...won the John Wayne shoot there in '07, Rules Committee members shoot there...many multi-time overall champions shoot there...and I can promise you that you're misrepresenting the set up there.

 

They are 100% safe...

 

:FlagAm:

 

Thanks Phantom. ALL loading and unloading tables a CVR face the berm. Smithy has only shot there on 1 maybe 2 occassions. He is a church going man and that is the reason for his not shooting on a Sunday. Get your facts right.

Link to post
Share on other sites

, You have to scan through the photos to find the nice looking gal with her long guns set on the table.

 

Rowdy

My wife doesn't want me lookin at that kind of website any more.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Smithy, I would humbly suggest you get back on your medicine.

 

I am a regular shooter at both clubs. The Pozo club has 2 sheets of 3/4+ plywood with about 8" of packed dirt between the sheets. There is no way a SASS load will penetrate that. And it goes down past the top of the tables toward the ground a distance too. So a 45 degree discharge will not hit the folks on the other side.

 

And CVR has never had anything like that.EVER. I have been with that club since the very 1st match.

 

If Smithy looked that hard he would have seen a hole in the board where it was intentionally shot to test it. Get ya facts right.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Winchester Jack, SASS #70195

That's exactly how it is. If you can remember how the game "Battleship" is set up, that basically is how the tables are set up. The loading and unloading tables butted up and facing each other with a vertical sheet of 1/2" CDX ply inbetween the two. Of the two ranges I spoke of, the worst offender is http://www.prvccowboy.com/ and the second not nearly so bad (I think they may only have one or two remaining examples that they may be trying to fix) is http://www.slosa.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=4&Itemid=6 It has been awhile since I have been out to the second range so they may have corrected their problems by now, but the first range had everyone of their loading/unloading tables set up that way. Smithy.

you are leaving out that there is a bullet proof wall (its been tested) between the loading/unloading tables. You are doing a grave disservice to the folks in Pozo by misrepresenting their field setup.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It is not often that I feel compelled to answer to comments posted ont the wire. But when it affects our club and the safety thereof, I feel that I must. First of all, if you haven't shot here you have no right to comment! Do not thake an explanation or discription that some idiot writes as the truth. If you don't have first hand knowledge, then SHUT UP! I take safety very seriously and preach constantly to our members the importance of SASS rules, reminding shooters that these rules have served us well thru the years. So they should not be neglected. The person that started this has only shot at this club one time two years ago. He showed up for a black powder night shoot unprepared and without any basic knowledge of cowboy shooting. The membership took him by the hand and with true spirit of the game patiently lead him thru the match trying to make his first cowboy action match a memorable experience. I have never asked a shooter to stay away from our range. We have always prided ourselves with making a shooter feel welcome. SMITHY! Please do not come to P.R.V.C. You are not welcome.

The Three Fingered Dutchman SASS #45779

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have had the pleasure of shooting at both clubs.

That said, both clubs have not only the safety of the participants but observers as their number 1 priority!

I have no quams about going to either club and feeling safe with the layout of the range or the way things are run.

 

And yep! I was there to see Phantom in all his glory shooting up them bad guys!

 

RTH

Link to post
Share on other sites
It is not often that I feel compelled to answer to comments posted ont the wire. But when it affects our club and the safety thereof, I feel that I must. First of all, if you haven't shot here you have no right to comment! Do not thake an explanation or discription that some idiot writes as the truth. If you don't have first hand knowledge, then SHUT UP! I take safety very seriously and preach constantly to our members the importance of SASS rules, reminding shooters that these rules have served us well thru the years. So they should not be neglected. The person that started this has only shot at this club one time two years ago. He showed up for a black powder night shoot unprepared and without any basic knowledge of cowboy shooting. The membership took him by the hand and with true spirit of the game patiently lead him thru the match trying to make his first cowboy action match a memorable experience. I have never asked a shooter to stay away from our range. We have always prided ourselves with making a shooter feel welcome. SMITHY! Please do not come to P.R.V.C. You are not welcome.

The Three Fingered Dutchman SASS #45779

Don't worry Dirty Sally, I won't as I am moving this week. You wonder why I haven't been back to your club? Part of it was because you have a serious safety problem with your loading/unloading tables facing each other. Taken by the hand or not, I have had over 30 + years of professional firearms instruction cowboy or not and I know an unsafe situation when I see it. I chose not to say anything because, I was new and I didn't want to make waves, but since I'm moving and have been booted out any way I figure the best I can do now is to tell the truth. On another post I was chided for having diabetes and should not be allowed to shoot; Or at least that was the jist of the post. I wondered why especially coming from a friend of mine until I read this post. It all makes sense now.

 

Everyone got their feathers ruffled from an old design that I called them on. At first I was not going to name your club but Phantom did not believe me and wanted to know examples. After much thought I realized that it could only do good to let people know which clubs I was talking about so they could make their own decision. If you have dirt inbetween plywood, it ain't much! It may stop a cowboy round, but what if someone forgot and brought a slightly beefier 357 or 45 LC round to the range and boom, dead unloader. That and your miraculous dirt/wood safety shield only goes down to around table height. Thanks, but I think that I like my knees, legs, toes, feet, etc. of which your "safety shield" does absolutely squat for.

 

So go ahead and give yourselves props for your masterfully designed safety features, when all you really had to do was to separate the tables and everyone would be MUCH better off. Also you only have about one or two pairs of tables that have half of their pairings headed toward any kind of berm. The rest head toward spectators, your house, and the general public, so PLEASE get it right. Sincerely, Smithy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

3,2,1......this one is dead....

 

Stan

 

I'll git the shovel. :lol:

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Winchester Jack, SASS #70195

Don't worry Dirty Sally, I won't as I am moving this week. You wonder why I haven't been back to your club? Part of it was because you have a serious safety problem with your loading/unloading tables facing each other. Taken by the hand or not, I have had over 30 + years of professional firearms instruction cowboy or not and I know an unsafe situation when I see it. I chose not to say anything because, I was new and I didn't want to make waves, but since I'm moving and have been booted out any way I figure the best I can do now is to tell the truth. On another post I was chided for having diabetes and should not be allowed to shoot; Or at least that was the jist of the post. I wondered why especially coming from a friend of mine until I read this post. It all makes sense now.

 

Everyone got their feathers ruffled from an old design that I called them on. At first I was not going to name your club but Phantom did not believe me and wanted to know examples. After much thought I realized that it could only do good to let people know which clubs I was talking about so they could make their own decision. If you have dirt inbetween plywood, it ain't much! It may stop a cowboy round, but what if someone forgot and brought a slightly beefier 357 or 45 LC round to the range and boom, dead unloader. That and your miraculous dirt/wood safety shield only goes down to around table height. Thanks, but I think that I like my knees, legs, toes, feet, etc. of which your "safety shield" does absolutely squat for.

 

So go ahead and give yourselves props for your masterfully designed safety features, when all you really had to do was to separate the tables and everyone would be MUCH better off. Also you only have about one or two pairs of tables that have half of their pairings headed toward any kind of berm. The rest head toward spectators, your house, and the general public, so PLEASE get it right. Sincerely, Smithy.

bye

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.