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Loading Lesson Learned


Windy City Kid

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Today I learned while setting up my Dillon if you load a test round into your 1873 without checking your mouth taper crimp, you get to learn how to dissemble your carrier block to remove the round (Smacks head). I’m sure more lessons to come.

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wait till you load over 500 rounds with the wrong powder.  Only took 4 days to tear them all down.

 

saved everything but the bullets and they went back in casting pot -- so I guess they were saved, too

 

Welcome to the posse

cr

 

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What caught my attention was your comment that you are using a taper crimp in a rifle with a tube magazine. Doing that can allow a bullet to be pushed back into a case under recoil, causing a (potentially) dangerous high pressure spike when the round is fired. Most folks use a roll crimp for their rifles with tube magazines.

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10 minutes ago, El Sobrante Kid said:

What caught my attention was your comment that you are using a taper crimp in a rifle with a tube magazine. Doing that can allow a bullet to be pushed back into a case under recoil, causing a (potentially) dangerous high pressure spike when the round is fired. Most folks use a roll crimp for their rifles with tube magazines.

 

That is simply not true.

 

I have used a taper crimp on .38 spl loads for the last 20 years in CAS tube rifles and have NEVER had a round push back into the case. When first experimenting with the taper crimp, I tested it numerous times with a seated bullet in empty brass (no powder/primer) sitting upright on concrete with a hammer. Tapped lightly at first with gradually harder taps. The only thing that happened was crumpled brass and a ruined bullet that stayed crimped in place. If taper crimped correctly, it's a better crimp than roll crimping IMO.

 

Edit - I'm guessing that's about 25,000+ rounds with zero issues over that 20 years.

Edited by Cypress Sun
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4 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

That is simply not true.

 

I have used a taper crimp on .38 spl loads for the last 20 years in CAS tube rifles and have NEVER had a round push back into the case. When first experimenting with the taper crimp, I tested it numerous times with a seated bullet in empty brass (no powder/primer) sitting upright on concrete with a hammer. Tapped lightly at first with gradually harder taps. The only thing that happened was crumpled brass and a ruined bullet that stayed crimped in place. If taper crimped correctly, it's a better crimp than roll crimping IMO.

 

Edit - I'm guessing that's about 25,000+ rounds with zero issues over that 20 years.

True this.  So long as the crimp is enough to eliminate the edge of the case from catching the chamber opening, a taper crimp works just fine.  That bullet isn’t going anywhere until the shooter drops the hammer. 

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22 minutes ago, El Sobrante Kid said:

What caught my attention was your comment that you are using a taper crimp in a rifle with a tube magazine. Doing that can allow a bullet to be pushed back into a case under recoil, causing a (potentially) dangerous high pressure spike when the round is fired. Most folks use a roll crimp for their rifles with tube magazines.

 

Cypress & Shawnee, please see the bolded. I didn't say it WILL cause a problem, only that it can cause a problem. And while I applaud all your effort to make sure that the ammunition YOU make is up to your rigorous standards, not everyone, probably most, do not. Meaning that the possibility of a problem does exist. There are A LOT of stories on the web about bullets being pushed back into cases with taper crimps, even on factory or professionally reloaded ammunition. So I am going to stick by my comments.

Edited by El Sobrante Kid
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Windy, ya know you don't have to disassemble the rifle, you can back the bad round out of the loading gate. ;)  There was a whole discussion on that not long ago.

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3 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Windy, ya know you don't have to disassemble the rifle, you can back the bad round out of the loading gate. ;)  There was a whole discussion on that not long ago.

I figured as much, but dang sure I couldn’t figure it out. I’ll search the archives, much appreciated. 

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3 hours ago, El Sobrante Kid said:

What caught my attention was your comment that you are using a taper crimp in a rifle with a tube magazine. Doing that can allow a bullet to be pushed back into a case under recoil, causing a (potentially) dangerous high pressure spike when the round is fired. Most folks use a roll crimp for their rifles with tube magazines.

I may have used the wrong term. I’m using the Dillon dies for 38sp. I told them I’m doing CAS and using what they sent. Appreciate the advice!

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12 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Windy, ya know you don't have to disassemble the rifle, you can back the bad round out of the loading gate. ;)  There was a whole discussion on that not long ago.

Ya stole my reply. Guess I'll have to get up earlier or stay up later.

:P

kR

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I loaded a bunch of spire point bullets in a 30-30 for a friend. 1899 Savage, no tube feed. They went in to the gun OK and shot fine, at the range. At the command, clear all guns, he had a couple around in the magazine, that’s when we found they wouldn’t eject. He had to fire the gun to make it safe. 
 

Load and unload. Lesson learned.


Uriah

 

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Howdy Windy,

 

A long time ago, when I started reloading .45 Colt for CAS, I decided to just neck size and taper crimp to minimize the stress on the case, thus adding longevity to my cases. I have never experienced a problem in my lever guns or revolvers. Further, My brass seems to be lasting forever. Whether it's due to my size/crimp program or moderate CAS charges: possibly both. FYI.

 

Rev. Chase

 

ps: My loads don't enlarge the case around the web so they have a wasp waist look. Evidence of the mild loads. 

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I'm a bit rushed when I'm shooting a stage, and I've never looked, or considered looking at the round as it chambered to see if the bullet has pushed back. 

 

Personally, I've always considered that putting a good or normal looking roll crimp on a rimmed pistol cartridge as being one of those "good practice" tasks. I knocked down a few (quite a few really) rounds with an impact hammer, even broke my RCBS one wailing on it to get a bullet out, and with the neck tension there was, I don't think that bullet was going to get pushed in. But I still roll crimp, it's pretty cheap insurance. 

 

It's that old probability vs possibility argument. A 38 Spl taper crimp die was meant for loading wadcutters in a S&W 52, IMO. It does puzzle me why, for CAS shooting, someone would supply a taper crimp. IIRC, I do have a taper crimp 38 Spl die, but I don't recall ever using it. 

 

Just my $0.02 on case expansion: For a case that is fired in a revolver, ballistically speaking, if it expands the case or not, there is still lots of smoke and other particles flying all over and around the cylinder. A case that seals or not because of low pressure, just doesn't make any difference. After all, all the happenings are an arms length away. In a rifle, a case that expands and seals would be the desired state, and the same applies to a shotgun. 

 

BB

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On 11/12/2024 at 5:44 PM, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Windy, ya know you don't have to disassemble the rifle, you can back the bad round out of the loading gate. ;)  There was a whole discussion on that not long ago.

you can also remove the mag tube end cap screw , easier yet , 

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46 minutes ago, watab kid said:

you can also remove the mag tube end cap screw , easier yet , 

Not really.  About 2 seconds out the loading gate.  But you go ahead. ;)

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25 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Not really.  About 2 seconds out the loading gate.  But you go ahead. ;)

OK , ive not tried that but i have pulled the cap screw , i guess im op[en to learn anything that works better 

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